Proposition 8

[falco]

whaT?

What what?

in the butt

GOTCHA

[Tarlam!]

whaT?

What what?

in the butt

GOTCHA

What?

[falco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGkxcY7YFU

in all seriousness though Tarlam, I respect your opinion, but am simultaneously saddened by it.

[Tarlam!]

Mozart, it is the single thing on this planet that makes me truly want to throw up apart from hideous crimes against children and women and animals.

Obviously, my first wrath is against pedophiles and women beaters/ rapists, then animal torturers and murders.

Then come the gays that want to adopt.

For me, a non violent honest thief has more honour.

Mind you, I still have nothing against to consenting gays "uniting".

[falco]

Mozart, it is the single thing on this planet that makes me truly want to throw up apart from hideous crimes against children and women and animals.

Obviously, my first wrath is against pedophiles and women beaters/ rapists, then animal torturers and murders.

Then come the gays that want to adopt.

For me, a non violent honest thief has more honour.

Mind you, I still have nothing against to consenting gays "uniting".

thats okay tarlam - i still like you! in my mind, there are numerous different factors that make households unsuitable or unsafe for child raising...I don't see same sex parents as one of them.

[HowardRoark]

psst.

cy.

your hate is showing

I am not well versed in Newspeak. Where is the hate?

[Tarlam!]

there are numerous different factors that make households unsuitable or unsafe for child raising...I don't see same sex parents as one of them.

You make an excellent point and as a society, we really should be working on safening the domestic environment, especially for children. Mozart, I agree with that!!

I am not suggesting gay parents pose a threat. On the contrary, from what I have learned from all of you that support gay adoptions, they make even better parents!

Doesn't make it biologically correct, though, does it!!!

I live with a girl that seemingly can't have kids. I love her to death. She's 41.

In February, we were all gaga, because I still had a job and we thought she was pregnant. I already have two and she is yet to enjoy motherhood. Anyways, turns out she's missing that special hormone that allows the fertilized egg to "nest". Poor kid. I can't help her, and we are too old to adopt.

But, Gerhard Schröder at 59 years old called his pal Boris Jelzin and got a Russian infant adopted within a fucking week.

So, there seems to be no moral high or low ground, just what there is.

Irrationally, I will continue to plead against Gay adoptions.

[MJZiggy]

I thought you could get that hormone artificially??

[texaspackerbacker]

Mozart, it is the single thing on this planet that makes me truly want to throw up apart from hideous crimes against children and women and animals.

Obviously, my first wrath is against pedophiles and women beaters/ rapists, then animal torturers and murders.

Then come the gays that want to adopt.

For me, a non violent honest thief has more honour.

Mind you, I still have nothing against to consenting gays "uniting".

And WHY is a viewpoint like this even controversial?

Even I would not oppose letting consenting gays "unite"--although I would probably phrase it as letting same sex ass-fuckers practice their abomination.

It is refreshing, however, to see the closest thing we have to a true middle-of-the-roader we have like Tarlam acknowledge that homosexuality is right up there with those other abominations.

Letting consenting adults do what they want to do in private is one thing. Letting them inflict their perversion on society in general and potentially adopted kids in particular crosses the line.

[Cy]

Cy: Obama is. He wants everyone to be his brother's keeper.

Cool! Imposing religion is back in style!

The idea that government should work for the common good and relieve suffering is nothing new, it has building for about 250 years, and especially the last 100 years.

IT seems that you, Partial, Wist, AynRand believe we can return to the world of 1800, when men were men and people fended for themselves. Charles Dickens wrote about the early 19th century, have a look. The great experiement of small government and unbridled enterprise has already been tried.

Cy: Yeah, and this idea got a jump start with the early Progressive movement. You remember that, right, those eggheads who went over to Mussolini's fascist Italy and concluded that it was a brilliant system. The Progressives who had a civilian corps looking around for "un-patriotic" people who rejected the idea of collective rights.

Your's is an argument of historical determination, that "history is going in this direction, and so we'd better just accept it."

But mine is an argument of morality. Where is the morality in forcing a man at gunpoint to give his hard earned wealth to another? Where is the morality in that? Please tell me.

You all need to read "Liberal Fascism" and then read "The Forgotten Man."

Your conclusion, Harlan, is actually the reverse: Collectivism has been tried before, and it has failed abjectly, miserably, and often at great cost to human life.

[Cy]

My favorite West Wing episode:

West Wing: the television show that fantasized about liberal issues and presented weekly smackdowns of evil, hateful Republicans, allowing liberal ladies to survive the Bush era by pretending the President was really a Democrat.

Though this may be, the guy was dead-on with respect to the picking and choosing of Biblical laws to obey.

Cy: No he wasn't. That little soliloquy was obnoxious, a straw man fabricated by Hollywood, because in their secularist cacoon they haven't a clue of what Christians really believe. But it sure made the ignorant feel good about hearing it. Secularists and liberals heard it and said, "Yeahhh, Go get 'em, Prez!" Christians heard it and said, "huh? What's he talking about."

To say that the rejection of homosexula marriage is an "imposition of our morality" is to deny that anyone can be against homosexual marriage unless he is a "man of the book." Which is absurd.

Anyone who wishes to maintain the traditional undersstanding of meaning and language could and would be against homosexual marriage. Citizens in a Republic have an interest in maintaining stability, and part of that stability demands that traditional institutions are maintained.

Why, for example, could polygamy be argued for and defended with the SAME arguments used to defend homosexual marriage? Or incest? Or any number of different arrangements?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Collectivism has been tried before, and it has failed abjectly, miserably, and often at great cost to human life.

This is true. That's why we meld elements of free markets and collectivism. Implemented as pure ideologies, both systems fail.

[Tarlam!]

Why, for example, could polygamy be argued for and defended with the SAME arguments used to defend homosexual marriage? Or incest? Or any number of different arrangements?

Now, that makes me stop and think.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I completely understand it.

You have absolutely no understanding of Christianity.

why bring religion into it?

I didn't.

Who did Howard?

Hell if I know. Am I my PackerRats brother keeper?

Exactly, but you appear to be mine.

It is just amazing how you can always manage to critique my usage of the bible/religion.

Whether or not you believe in Christianity is not the issue with your lack of knowledge on the subject. You are unaware of one of the cornerstones of the religion; that being the Trinity.

It’s OK to once and a while admit you are not an expert on a subject.

Unaware? LOL

Where do you determine that from my posts?

Yeah, i guess i never have heard of that...i always wondered about my friend who went to Trinity in Texas. Yeah, never have heard of the father, son and the holy ghost.

Yep, just having catholic friends and attending church with them taught me nothing.

Yep, dating a Unitarian taught me nothing.

Guess living in the south and being exposed regularly to pentecostals who don't believe in that..or living in Phx and working regularly with LDS members who dont' believe in it either. Yep, a foreign concept.

Yep, being married to a woman that converted and attending her parents church regularly taught me nothing.

Howard, this is a christian country for the most part. It is almost impossible if you are a sentient being to not pickup on your religion. It is as pervasive as air.

Look, otown, with all due respect, I know every possible intricacy of what you did, do, and don’t know on the subject. Back at OT: Movie Recommendation, there was a month long discussion on the topic. It already is the second time around for your little cut and paste up above. I’ve seen it and heard it all before.

You had your co-dependent Abe to help you out. Go find him, let’s do it again. Sure, Robert (Nietzsche rest his soul) was there to pipe in once in awhile. And greenday, (Mr Fancypants with his PhDs) added some lucidity. I see GK and Cy are here now too. But really, this has all been done before.

You have me confused with someone else. Seriously. If you think that I or anyone else who has half a brain hasn't heard of the trinity then you are really a moron. The whole thing (trinity) doesn't make much sense to me, but to think i haven't heard of it...that is laughable.

I grew up with catholics and protestants. My family owned a boat with a catholic family. I attended church with them many times and was inquisitive about their brand of christianity.

My ex's family was UCC. I attended church with them too many times to count..including many a sermon that left me quite cold about how they viewed non christians.

So, please stop embarrassing yourself.

You know ever intricacy? Really? LOL

Abe help me out? Again you have me confused. Abe and I rarely saw i to eye...and he was one who belittled anyone who believed in religion..not me.

[HowardRoark]

Look, otown, with all due respect, I know every possible intricacy of what you did, do, and don’t know on the subject. Back at OT: Movie Recommendation, there was a month long discussion on the topic. It already is the second time around for your little cut and paste up above. I’ve seen it and heard it all before.

You had your co-dependent Abe to help you out. Go find him, let’s do it again. Sure, Robert (Nietzsche rest his soul) was there to pipe in once in awhile. And greenday, (Mr Fancypants with his PhDs) added some lucidity. I see GK and Cy are here now too. But really, this has all been done before.

You have me confused with someone else. Seriously. If you think that I or anyone else who has half a brain hasn't heard of the trinity then you are really a moron. The whole thing (trinity) doesn't make much sense to me, but to think i haven't heard of it...that is laughable.

I grew up with catholics and protestants. My family owned a boat with a catholic family. I attended church with them many times and was inquisitive about their brand of christianity.

My ex's family was UCC. I attended church with them too many times to count..including many a sermon that left me quite cold about how they viewed non christians.

So, please stop embarrassing yourself.

You know ever intricacy? Really? LOL

Abe help me out? Again you have me confused. Abe and I rarely saw i to eye...and he was one who belittled anyone who believed in religion..not me.

O.K. otown, whatever you say. Your post above is literally a replay of what we have already discussed. The UCC is not Christian....ring a bell?