Who is a christian and what does that mean

[mraynrand]

Re: Who is a christian and what does that mean

What does God say in Ecclesiastes 6:2?

Solomon is speaking is Ecclesiastes.

It was a trick question. You win the prize.

Can I have my screen name changed to "bible-thumping rat?"

New avatar?

http://bp2.blogger.com/_11-nzoYFuQU/RxS15sAKzeI/AAAAAAAABVU/CQKlSOTo6ow/s1600-h/Fire+and+Brimstone.bmp

[Harlan Huckleby]

The hardest place to be a Christian these days is the U.S.A.

Maybe some day a Christian will be elected president, that could help change things.

[mraynrand]

The hardest place to be a Christian these days is the U.S.A.

Maybe some day a Christian will be elected president, that could help change things.

Please. The days of despotic Theocratic rule are almost over. The sweet, sweet smell of secular freedom is in the air.

[Cy]

Question posed to the panel.

There are two men.

One donates heavily to charity, is involved in his community, always helps others, and lives a good and moral life. He does not identify Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.

The other man is, more or less, a bum. He is really only concerned about himself and how his life is going. He could care less about other peoples' lives. He goes to church every Sunday and strongly identifies Christ as his Lord and Savior.

Which man is more deserving of a place in heaven?

'

Cy: Ask the thief on the cross.

[Tarlam!]

Nothing to do with Christianity, but, a great opportunity to share my favourite prayer with you. This really gives me nourishment for my soul.


Psalm 91

1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.

2 I will say of God, “He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.”

3 For He will deliver you from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence.

4 He will cover you with His feathers. Under His wings you will take refuge. His faithfulness is your shield and rampart.

5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day;

6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness, Nor of the destruction that wastes at noonday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it will not come near you.

8 You will only look with your eyes, And see the recompense of the wicked.

9 Because you have made God your refuge, And the Most High your dwelling place,

10 No evil shall happen to you, Neither shall any plague come near your dwelling.

11 For He will give his angels charge over you, To guard you in all your ways.

12 They will bear you up in their hands, So that you won’t dash your foot against a stone.

13 You will tread on the lion and cobra. You will trample the young lion and the serpent underfoot.

14 “Because he has set his love on Me, therefore I will deliver him. I will set him on high, because he has known My name.

15 He will call on Me, and I will answer him. I will be with him in trouble. I will deliver him, and honor him.

16 I will satisfy him with long life, And show him My salvation.”

[Harlan Huckleby]

"He has given us a sign, he has given us a shoe!"

[arcilite]

I follow the church of the FSM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[LL2]

Nothing to do with Christianity, but, a great opportunity to share my favourite prayer with you. This really gives me nourishment for my soul.


Psalm 91

1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.

2 I will say of God, “He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.”

3 For He will deliver you from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence.

4 He will cover you with His feathers. Under His wings you will take refuge. His faithfulness is your shield and rampart.

5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day;

6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness, Nor of the destruction that wastes at noonday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it will not come near you.

8 You will only look with your eyes, And see the recompense of the wicked.

9 Because you have made God your refuge, And the Most High your dwelling place,

10 No evil shall happen to you, Neither shall any plague come near your dwelling.

11 For He will give his angels charge over you, To guard you in all your ways.

12 They will bear you up in their hands, So that you won’t dash your foot against a stone.

13 You will tread on the lion and cobra. You will trample the young lion and the serpent underfoot.

14 “Because he has set his love on Me, therefore I will deliver him. I will set him on high, because he has known My name.

15 He will call on Me, and I will answer him. I will be with him in trouble. I will deliver him, and honor him.

16 I will satisfy him with long life, And show him My salvation.”

I think this passage is often quoted. I consider myself a Christian, and even graduated from a Christian High School. My family goes to church weekly. I am far, far from perfect. I agree with most of what Retail and Harvey have been saying.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I follow the church of the FSM.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

Behold his awesome noodley appendage!!

[GK]

Those poor Japanese, Chinese, Africans, Persians, Jewish and Indians....All those billions of people with little opportunity to be saved.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that were doing the whole "snarky, postmodern, ironic smart aleck" bit, which is, near as I can tell, the only "argument" against Christianity in the 21st century. We Christians know that stuff goes over well with your guys, but for those of us who are sincere and think seriously and deeply about what is right and what is wrong, well, we find it tedious.

Because I am sure you don't really think there are no Christians in Japan, China, Africa, Iran, India, or amongst Jewish people.

So given that ethnicity is not a barrier to Christian belief (Holy cow, I cannot believe that I am having this first grade level argument with someone. Again, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were being a smart aleck.), what exactly is it that you are saying? Perhaps you are making the rather old argument that there are a lot of people who lived in different times and different places, and would have no idea what Christianity is all about, and thus it is cruel to assume they could not have access to the eternal happiness that our Christianity promises. Is that the heart of your argument? I think it is.

I hate to break it to you, but your argument is not new. It has been confronted over and over again by serious Christians for about, oh, a thousand years. Sorry.

On the bright side, you (and Hitchens, Dawkins, and Harris) have added the new twist of saying it with a smart aleck, "I'm better than all this" attitude. Kudos to you. We're all impressed.

So I could walk you through the Church's thousand year old belief about your complaint, which, as far as I am concerned, is well thought out and completely rational. But I am not going to waste my time if the ground rules of this debate are, "You ridicule me, then I ridicule you."

I find ridicule to be much easier than well thought out philosophical inquiry. The Church leaders have chosen the latter, which is what they always do. You and your buddies Hitchens and Harris have chosen the former, which is the realm of the intellectually lazy and morally arrogant. I am happy to join you, because the Church's way is difficult, and I am tired.

So, my response to you is, "The Christian Church is thriving in other nations, and is particularly thriving on the African continent. Christianity tends to thrive in areas where the dangers of life are apparent. Atheism is thriving among spoiled, pampered beneficiaries of the fruits of Western civilization. It is easy to be an atheist as you listen to your iPod in a loft condominium, while you sip a nice 1997 California Cabernet and watch a Bourne movie on Blu-ray. The new atheism is nothing more than an intellectually and morally slothful reaction to the plush luxuries of a civilization built by people much greater than the shortsighted and thankless current generation."

[MadScientist]

So, my response to you is, "The Christian Church is thriving in other nations, and is particularly thriving on the African continent. Christianity tends to thrive in areas where the dangers of life are apparent. Atheism is thriving among spoiled, pampered beneficiaries of the fruits of Western civilization. "

So religion thrives where people are desperate. (I used religion as it's not just Christianity that thrives in these conditions). It doesn't doesn't add any truth to it. Desperate cancer patients often turn to quack treatments. That doesn't make the quack treatments work. All the belief in the world won't change reality. You could get all the Packer fans in the world to believe that the Packers won SB32 over Denver, but that will not make it so.

[hoosier]

So, my response to you is, "The Christian Church is thriving in other nations, and is particularly thriving on the African continent. Christianity tends to thrive in areas where the dangers of life are apparent. Atheism is thriving among spoiled, pampered beneficiaries of the fruits of Western civilization. "

So religion thrives where people are desperate. (I used religion as it's not just Christianity that thrives in these conditions). It doesn't doesn't add any truth to it. Desperate cancer patients often turn to quack treatments. That doesn't make the quack treatments work. All the belief in the world won't change reality. You could get all the Packer fans in the world to believe that the Packers won SB32 over Denver, but that will not make it so.

To be fair it should be pointed out that belief and faith have been shown to make a real difference for people in desperate situations. Scientific studies have shown that cancer patients who profess a strong belief that some higher power is looking out for them tend to have better outcomes than those who feel only hopelessness. At an intuitive level, it makes perfect sense that the same logic would hold for healthy people living in dismal conditions: those for whom faith plays an important role in their lives tend to have more positive outlooks and tend to do better. This isn't an argument for Christianity, just pointing out that faith in something (not necessarily the Christian God) can have real effects in the world.

And I say having never practiced any religion and having no belief in any higher power.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And I say having never practiced any religion and having no belief in any higher power.

That's something that my agnostic or atheist friends will acknowledge. I have an agnostic friend who said that his formerly alcoholic father-in-law accepted Jesus Christ as his savior several years ago and hasn't had a drop of alcohol since. I'm not saying that's the only way to beat it, but it seems to be one of the better remedies. Josh Hamilton is a well-known example of what you are talking about.

[Freak Out]

And I say having never practiced any religion and having no belief in any higher power.

That's something that my agnostic or atheist friends will acknowledge. I have an agnostic friend who said that his formerly alcoholic father-in-law accepted Jesus Christ as his savior several years ago and hasn't had a drop of alcohol since. I'm not saying that's the only way to beat it, but it seems to be one of the better remedies. Josh Hamilton is a well-known example of what you are talking about.

I quit smoking years ago by going to a quack hypnotist......I sat through an hour of this guys BS thinking I had just been robbed of $50....of course I left and never lit up again.

[GK]

So, my response to you is, "The Christian Church is thriving in other nations, and is particularly thriving on the African continent. Christianity tends to thrive in areas where the dangers of life are apparent. Atheism is thriving among spoiled, pampered beneficiaries of the fruits of Western civilization. "

So religion thrives where people are desperate. (I used religion as it's not just Christianity that thrives in these conditions). It doesn't doesn't add any truth to it. Desperate cancer patients often turn to quack treatments. That doesn't make the quack treatments work. All the belief in the world won't change reality. You could get all the Packer fans in the world to believe that the Packers won SB32 over Denver, but that will not make it so.

"So religion thrives where people are desperate."

Yes! Thank you for stating Christian doctrine to a "T."

Christianity does in fact thrive where people are desperate. It always has, and it always will. In fact, that is the heart of the Christian message. The Christian message, aka The Gospel, aka The Good News, is as follows:

1) Mankind is created by and loved by God
2) Man has been given the gift of free will, and he has the right to choose to do either good or evil
3) Mankind has a propensity to choose evil, because everyone is inherently selfish
4) God forgives this sin, inherent in everyone, and has created a route (pathway, doorway, etc.) that can help us all overcome it
5) All we have to do is be humble and acknowledge our faults, and God will make us better

That's it. And yes, it appeals to the desperate. The question then is: Who is living in a fantasy world? Is it the humble alcoholic who sees himself as a flawed creature and hands his wretched being over to his Creator, or is it the 28 year old web designer in San Diego, CA, living in a beautiful home overlooking the ocean, and sipping fine wine while choosing which new pair of shoes to buy? Which of these people is living in an unreal fantasy?

Think about how many people went to church on September 12, 2001.

Or better yet, think about the last time you flew on a commercial flight. Let's say you flew first class. You're sitting there, the flight attendant brings you a glass of wine, you're watching a movie on your laptop, and occasionally chatting with the pleasant businessman sitting next to you. You are thinking about the week of skiing at Whistler that awaits you. Suddenly you hit turbulence, and some alarms sound on the airplane. The plane quickly drops 5,000 feet, and the flight attendants look scared.

One minute you are a comfortable product of Western civilization who has no need for foolish old superstitions, and the the next you are a helpless, "desperate" human who is terrified just as your ancestors 5,000 years ago were. Which of the two situations is reality?