Jesus Christ

[Tarlam!]

O.K. Easter just finished and believe me, I am sick of seeing Christian films on TV.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour. At least not the way he is portrayed. I look at him as Muslims seem to: a prophet.

How can anyone with the ultimate skills ever known to man remain mute at his various trials and tribulations and simply get crucified?. He could have done so much more than just die for us. Expect us to "believe". Crap!!!

I believe in a supreme being that I happen to name God. I think all people that worship in any house of belief are worthy of complete respect. I don't do that, but, being Germany, you either get Catholic or Protestant. And Jesus Christ is everywhere. And I don't disrespect Christians by any means. I disagree with them most respectfully. I respect Hindus, Buddhists, Maoists and any other Believer - or even Non Believer. Please, don't get me wrong. This is not about religion in general. This is only about Christ.

I don't believe that he was so placid as described and .... you know the rest.

I really shouldn't post this. I won't win any awards.

[sheepshead]

Maybe that's part of your problem. Nice timing by the way.

[Tarlam!]

Maybe that's part of your problem. Nice timing by the way.

An arrogant reply.

Many people have problems. People I know, people that believe Christ is the saviour. Guess what? They are more "bla bla" than I am.

The timing is Easter Monday, when better to bring up the question of this?

Sheep, if you just want to insult me, then PM as usual. If you want to really have a discussion, then I suggest you attack the topic, not the author.

[HowardRoark]

Re: Jesus Christ

He could have done so much more than just die for us.

As yesterday was Easter, it seems apropos to at least acknowledge, according to Christian belief, that he did something after dying. Without what happened on Easter, I would have to agree with your post. Because of Easter, I don't.

[Tarlam!]

Re: Jesus Christ

[Because of Easter, I don't.

I guess you're referring to the almighty "resurrection". There were less than a handful of "reliable" witnesses to that event. But I won't begin to dispute that.

If he was the bodily son of God and 1/3 of the Holy trinity, he had no business dying on the cross. I don't get it. I am just saying, I don't get it. I don't get he died for me. He should have lived for me. And he isn't alive. Jesus doesn't live. He's dead, buried and lost somewhere.

Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful. I just have lost faith in Jesus Christ. If you want to attack the topic, great. The author, please PM to relieve the forum members.

[sheepshead]

Maybe that's part of your problem. Nice timing by the way.

An arrogant reply.

Many people have problems. People I know, people that believe Christ is the saviour. Guess what? They are more "bla bla" than I am.

The timing is Easter Monday, when better to bring up the question of this?

Sheep, if you just want to insult me, then PM as usual. If you want to really have a discussion, then I suggest you attack the topic, not the author.

It posted here on Easter. (Im in Chicago)-Just saying maybe he can help. Not an attack.

[Tarlam!]

It posted here on Easter. (Im in Chicago)-Just saying maybe he can help. Not an attack.

Sorry, but I'm not always aware of time differences. I continue to repeat, I am not trying to be in anyway disrespectful.

[australianpackerbacker]

Not that i agree with everything in the list below, but it is good for a solid laugh. Enjoy!

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian


10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."


3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Peace and happy easter!

[sheepshead]

dont you get banded for having 2 sock puppets?

[Tarlam!]

An Aussie riding shotgut for an Aussie. Who'd have thought?

Thanks, Mate.

[Tarlam!]

dont you get banded for having 2 sock puppets?

Are you attempting a serious discussion with this comment? Sorry, I'm too stupid to get it.

[australianpackerbacker]

An Aussie riding shotgut for an Aussie. Who'd have thought?

Thanks, Mate.

No worries buddy! Hows life in Germany treating you? We are getting some serious torrential rains here in Sydney, been gloomy all easter.

Peace

[retailguy]

Re: Jesus Christ

Tar - I don't know whether you were soliciting responses or just venting. I took it as the former, but if it is the latter, just ignore me.

You said many things, most of which I believe are not true. I thought it best to go point by point. Maybe there is a better way to respond, if so, I don't know how to do it.

As you stated, I mean no disrespect.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour. At least not the way he is portrayed. I look at him as Muslims seem to: a prophet.

I believe if you spend some time in the Bible, you'll see that this is one definition that he hasn't left open to us. He clearly claims in the Bible to be God. To me this means one of three things:

1 - He was God
2 - He wasn't God, but thought (believed) he was God
3 - He wasn't God, and knew that he wasn't God.

Obviously, I believe the 1st possibility. Looking at 2 & 3, this means he was either evil and dishonest (choice 3), or a crazy lunatic (choice 2). Neither would qualify him for "Prophet" status in any religion. Number 1 clearly doesn't qualify him to be a prophet either, since God would be by definition - not a prophet.

How can anyone with the ultimate skills ever known to man remain mute at his various trials and tribulations and simply get crucified?. He could have done so much more than just die for us. Expect us to "believe". Crap!!!

This has to do with Grace. I'm not going to try in a small internet post to explain this, however, again, if you spend some time in the Bible, you'll begin to understand the reasons for this.

Here's a wikipedia definition of "Divine Grace". I'm sure I could find something better (or closer to what I believe if you're interested), but this will give the general concept from many different religious perspectives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_grace

Your above post also indirectly refers to "choice". In order to have love, you have to have choices. Otherwise, how do you, or anyone else for that matter, know you have love? You have to choose it.

In order to have choice you have to have a second option. That would be to choose to "not love" God. I happen to believe that there is plenty of fact surrounding Christianity, the humorous post by APB notwithstanding.

I guess you're referring to the almighty "resurrection". There were less than a handful of "reliable" witnesses to that event. But I won't begin to dispute that.

Well, Tar, Jesus spent 40 days after the resurrection here before his ascension into heaven. There were many more than a "handful" of witnesses to his resurrection. Some accounts put the number about 500.

I'll leave you to judge the "credibility" of the witnesses, but logic tells me that at least one of the 500 had to be considered "credible" in most peoples minds. Jewish customs at the time required "one or two" credible accounts...

Personally, I believe that the witnesses were "credible". Many were executed for their beliefs. I find it difficult to believe that if the witnesses "made it up" they would not willingly go to their deaths holding a "made up belief" to be true. By any applied standard that doesn't make sense to me.

Look at this site (warning - could be viewed as fundamentalist) for more information.

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/witness-to-the-resurrection-faq.htm

If he was the bodily son of God and 1/3 of the Holy trinity, he had no business dying on the cross. I don't get it. I am just saying, I don't get it. I don't get he died for me. He should have lived for me. And he isn't alive. Jesus doesn't live. He's dead, buried and lost somewhere.

And here is the key to Christianity. You either believe in the necessity of grace, or you don't. Tar - I fully admit that to believe in Jesus, you need to believe in the bible as the written word of God. That's a different discussion, but acceptance of that, needs to happen for the rest of the belief to make sense.

There are plenty of written defenses of the validity of the bible. You can gather the data if you wish. I'll be happy to help with sources.

I always recommend that people who are seeking more information participate in a course called "Alpha". It was developed by a British Pastor, and is undoubtedly being held somewhere close to your home. By the very definition of the course, it is to be "NO PRESSURE". I'd be very disappointed to hear that anyone associated with this course put pressure on you, or anyone else, related to "acceptance" of the information provided. That's not its purpose.

That being said, as APB humorously pointed out, all Christians aren't openminded. I think "all" of anyone is not openminded, but... that's another discussion.

You can check out the alpha course at http://www.alpha.org or http://www.alphakurs.de/ in German.

[texaspackerbacker]

Most of us "fundamentalist Christians" take that top ten list and embrace it--although many of the details are based on church teachings rather than true Biblical Christian concepts.

Tarlam, it takes a lot of faith to hold the belief you hold and a lot of courage to express it in opposition to the dominant religion--although I suppose that is less true in Europe than here.

I have no quarrel with anybody expressing non-belief about what I consider to be the True Religion. Heaven knows, the contradictory and unBiblical teachings of some (or all) major Christian denominations tends to foster that sort of thing. As long as non-believers remain benign and are not part of movements or false religions aimed at tearing down our own religion, our own freedom, and our own way of life, then those non-believers can live without a target on their back--as far as I'm concerned anyway.

[Tarlam!]

RG, Tex, thank you both for the respectful comments.

But he died. He friggin' died. With all of his might, he could have done so much had he lived. I just don't accept him dying and having his story documented many generations after the fact to be the correct choice for manhood. Sorry, I don't. It was a cop out, IMHO.

I don't know what it's like in the USA or elsewhere at this time of year, but German TV is just full of Jesus. I guess with my loss I feel it stronger. But, I'm hurting and this Jesus cult isn't helping a bit.