Jesus Christ

[SkinBasket]

Forget dying. If he was the son of god, does he really allow this to be his legacy?



When did the lord abandon the the fire and brimstone thing in exchange for critical reviews?

[retailguy]

But he died. He friggin' died. With all of his might, he could have done so much had he lived. I just don't accept him dying and having his story documented many generations after the fact to be the correct choice for manhood. Sorry, I don't. It was a cop out, IMHO.

Yes, he died. But, he was supposed to die. If you accept death as "final" then, well, I understand your belief.

But, put bluntly, do you "know for certain" that death is final? If so, how? We know for certain, that death is final for us from "this" life, we don't know what happens next.

There are 500 accounts of people seeing the risen Jesus. I'd suggest researching those accounts, and understanding the context behind those accounts before you believe it "isn't possible".

You said earlier that you believe in a "higher power" you call God. I'd guess, that by default, you would also believe that the God you believe in is not subject to the same "rules or limitations" that we as humans are. Therefore, if that is true, there could be life after death, and, more importantly, God could raise someone from the dead if he so chose.

Tar - I know you're hurting right now. The death of a loved one, especially, a loved one in the prime of her life is not fair, not expected, and not understandable. The "empty void" in your childrens lives can't be filled, and as a parent, I'd be damn frustrated with that.

If you want to vent, you're certainly entitled, if you want more information, I can help you with that. There are valid reasons why life is the way it is. You don't have to like them (I certainly don't), but, I think after the pain passes they can make sense to you.

My recommendation, if you want it, is to gather information relating to Grace. Understand what God accomplished by crucifying Jesus, and what it means to me and you. Then gather information on "why" you can trust the Bible as the word of God. After that, if you're interested in reading a part of the Bible for yourself, I'd start with John's Gospel.

PM me backchannel if you wish, I'd be happy to talk with you about any private concerns you have.

[texaspackerbacker]

RG, Tex, thank you both for the respectful comments.

But he died. He friggin' died. With all of his might, he could have done so much had he lived. I just don't accept him dying and having his story documented many generations after the fact to be the correct choice for manhood. Sorry, I don't. It was a cop out, IMHO.

I don't know what it's like in the USA or elsewhere at this time of year, but German TV is just full of Jesus. I guess with my loss I feel it stronger. But, I'm hurting and this Jesus cult isn't helping a bit.

The dying was not the big deal; It was the Resurrection--which, Tarlam, you, of course, have a perfect right not to believe happened, if that's what your faith tells you. However, I think it was Gibbons in his book, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, who stated that the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events in human history.

[sheepshead]

dont you get banded for having 2 sock puppets?

Are you attempting a serious discussion with this comment? Sorry, I'm too stupid to get it.

You and APB are clearly the same person, most forums permanently ban people that create 2 user names and use them.

[retailguy]

dont you get banded for having 2 sock puppets?

Are you attempting a serious discussion with this comment? Sorry, I'm too stupid to get it.

You and APB are clearly the same person, most forums permanently ban people that create 2 user names and use them.

Interesting.... Sheep, how'd you get so damn smart? Err. Let me rephrase that. You can't see the IP, I can, and they are "CLEARLY" not the same person.

So why don't you tell me how you know that they "CLEARLY" are the same person? Inquiring minds want to know....

[gex]

Not that i agree with everything in the list below, but it is good for a solid laugh. Enjoy!

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian


10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."


3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Peace and happy easter!

Thats funny cause its true.

[sheepshead]

dont you get banded for having 2 sock puppets?

Are you attempting a serious discussion with this comment? Sorry, I'm too stupid to get it.

You and APB are clearly the same person, most forums permanently ban people that create 2 user names and use them.

Interesting.... Sheep, how'd you get so damn smart? Err. Let me rephrase that. You can't see the IP, I can, and they are "CLEARLY" not the same person.

So why don't you tell me how you know that they "CLEARLY" are the same person? Inquiring minds want to know....

Why dont you go stand in the corner, if we need a cop-wannabe or somebody's asshole neighbor type guy we'll call on you.

[retailguy]

Why dont you go stand in the corner, if we need a cop-wannabe or somebody's asshole neighbor type guy we'll call on you.

That's the best you could come up with? Please, you disappoint me.

I ask again, how do you know so "clearly"? C'mon it's not so tough. Enlighten me.

[Joemailman]

This discussion reminds of a saying I once heard:

If you're not a believer, no explanation is possible.
If you are a believer, no explanation is necessary.

Of course, this isn't totally true because if it were, believers would never stray, and non-believers would never be converted. There is an element of truth to it however. Explaining faith to a non-believer can by its very nature be difficult since faith is belief despite an absence of physical evidence. I think Christ showed he understood this when he said to Thomas, "You believe because you've seen me. Blessed are those who haven't seen me but believe."

[sheepshead]

Why dont you go stand in the corner, if we need a cop-wannabe or somebody's asshole neighbor type guy we'll call on you.

That's the best you could come up with? Please, you disappoint me.

I ask again, how do you know so "clearly"? C'mon it's not so tough. Enlighten me.

No further questions your honor.

[retailguy]

Why dont you go stand in the corner, if we need a cop-wannabe or somebody's asshole neighbor type guy we'll call on you.

That's the best you could come up with? Please, you disappoint me.

I ask again, how do you know so "clearly"? C'mon it's not so tough. Enlighten me.

No further questions your honor.

Then how about some answers to a simple question.

How do you know so "clearly"? Let's hear it. We're all really curious how you got so smart.

[mraynrand]

Why dont you go stand in the corner, if we need a cop-wannabe or somebody's asshole neighbor type guy we'll call on you.

That's the best you could come up with? Please, you disappoint me.

I ask again, how do you know so "clearly"? C'mon it's not so tough. Enlighten me.

No further questions your honor.

Then how about some answers to a simple question.

How do you know so "clearly"? Let's hear it. We're all really curious how you got so smart.

Didn't you already make your point?

[mraynrand]

Tar, keep searching man.

[sheepshead]

Why dont you go stand in the corner, if we need a cop-wannabe or somebody's asshole neighbor type guy we'll call on you.

That's the best you could come up with? Please, you disappoint me.

I ask again, how do you know so "clearly"? C'mon it's not so tough. Enlighten me.

No further questions your honor.

Then how about some answers to a simple question.

How do you know so "clearly"? Let's hear it. We're all really curious how you got so smart.

Didn't you already make your point?

Oh no, he has a little issue here I think...

[hoosier]

This discussion reminds of a saying I once heard:

If you're not a believer, no explanation is possible.
If you are a believer, no explanation is necessary.

Of course, this isn't totally true because if it were, believers would never stray, and non-believers would never be converted. There is an element of truth to it however. Explaining faith to a non-believer can by its very nature be difficult since faith is belief despite an absence of physical evidence. I think Christ showed he understood this when he said to Thomas, "You believe because you've seen me. Blessed are those who haven't seen me but believe."

Who said something to the effect of "You wouldn't be seeking me if you hadn't already found me"? (We could translate this for Tarlam as "You wouldn't be doubting me if you hadn't already found me.") I want to say it was Pascal, but somewhere in the back of my mind it sounds like something Christ was reputed to have said himself.