This guy looks like a moron now

[Administrator]

I think it's easiest to just say this: Partial is a fucking moron.

Please keep your comments confined to the topic, and not directed to the poster specifically. thanks.

[Administrator]

I think it's easiest to just say this: Partial is a fucking moron.

Yes it would. But that won't stop him. He'll just change the argument, which he has done at least 4 timnes in this thread alone.

This is also uncalled for. CPK, we've talked about this. Let it go. Permanently. Thanks.

[Patler]

Colledge had more false start penalties than Clifton in 2008 (4 to 3)

Clifton had four holding penalties, but two came in the first game, and seemed to set the fans attitudes for the season, deciding he was washed up. He had only two more holding calls the entire season. If you recall, there was some change in officiating that affected holding calls, particularly for tackles. I don't recall what the change was, but there was an article early in the season pointing out that holding calls were up considerably, and it was nailing tackles particularly, Clifton and others. It took a few weeks for the tackles to adapt (and for the officials to calm down).

Those were the only penalties Clifton had in 2008. Seven of them. Tony Moll in brief appearances also had 7, Colledge had the four false starts and two holds.

Clifton may not be the player he was, but 2008 wasn't as bad as some of you imply. He started out poorly, as did Tauscher, but came on as the season progressed, I thought. Both yielded a lot more "pressures" (25 and 23) than we were accustomed to seeing from them, and I suspect the QB change had a little to do with it.

I agree that Clifton may warrant watching, but I'm not overly concerned.

[Bretsky]

We should have worried along the OL, but I think Clifton might be the least of them

[Partial]

Did Clifton go from stud to dud overnight?

I think the answer is yes. Clifton at his best was a great pass protector and a below average run blocker. The pass blocking was not even close to what we were used to last year and he continues to commit far too many drive killing penalties. He is my biggest concern with this team next year.

I think he'll be fine. He's still extremely athletic. Was the pass protection of a problem of incompetent starters (who have been pro-bowlers the year before), or a new quarterback running all over the place making it very difficult to protect for him?

I tend to believe its the latter. I think Clifton will be fine. I definitely think there are much bigger concerns on the OL, and I still think without a doubt he's a top 10 LT.

[Bretsky]

Did Clifton go from stud to dud overnight?

I think the answer is yes. Clifton at his best was a great pass protector and a below average run blocker. The pass blocking was not even close to what we were used to last year and he continues to commit far too many drive killing penalties. He is my biggest concern with this team next year.

I think he'll be fine. He's still extremely athletic. Was the pass protection of a problem of incompetent starters (who have been pro-bowlers the year before), or a new quarterback running all over the place making it very difficult to protect for him?

I tend to believe its the latter. I think Clifton will be fine. I definitely think there are much bigger concerns on the OL, and I still think without a doubt he's a top 10 LT.

I do think Favre had a better feel for the rush, but that comes with experience

I don't think AROD's scrambling was much of a factor in our OL issues. Maybe occasional..........but not that noticeable

[SnakeLH2006]

Did Clifton go from stud to dud overnight?

I think the answer is yes. Clifton at his best was a great pass protector and a below average run blocker. The pass blocking was not even close to what we were used to last year and he continues to commit far too many drive killing penalties. He is my biggest concern with this team next year.

I think he'll be fine. He's still extremely athletic. Was the pass protection of a problem of incompetent starters (who have been pro-bowlers the year before), or a new quarterback running all over the place making it very difficult to protect for him?

I tend to believe its the latter. I think Clifton will be fine. I definitely think there are much bigger concerns on the OL, and I still think without a doubt he's a top 10 LT.

I do think Favre had a better feel for the rush, but that comes with experience

I don't think AROD's scrambling was much of a factor in our OL issues. Maybe occasional..........but not that noticeable

Cliffy really looks done. His whole game is athleticism, and when it slips with bad legs, he loses his magic. He been slowly slipping from 3 years ago, but really fell off this last year. No doubt this is his last year.

[Scott Campbell]

Colledge had more false start penalties than Clifton in 2008 (4 to 3)

Very interesting - only 3 for the year. Is there a good source for looking that stuff up? I'd like to see how many he's had over the course of his career. It feels like a ton, but maybe I'm smoking crack.

[Scott Campbell]

I do think Favre had a better feel for the rush, but that comes with experience....

I think Favre always had a terrific feel for the rush. He kept a lot of plays alive even as an older plyer, but with subtle movement more than athleticism.

[Pacopete4]

I do think Favre had a better feel for the rush, but that comes with experience....

I think Favre always had a terrific feel for the rush. He kept a lot of plays alive even as an older plyer, but with subtle movement more than athleticism.

though, even Favre at times, felt too much of a rush and didnt let plays develop..

[pbmax]

I disagree with you 100% on the AFC East. Two best coaches in the NFL. Two of the best QBs, etc.

Even Hall of Fame coaches have bad seasons. And both Belicheck and Parcells got beat by some average teams.

Number 6 scoring offense is above-average. I don't care how many points they run up against scrubs. They cannot score against decent teams. The image of people blaming the D in a game where the offense scores 16-20 points is ridic... Against the Vikes they scored one offensive touchdown yet people blame the D for losing the game despite the offense getting blown out...

The offense did struggle at times. So did the QB. But that isn't unexpected of a first year starter at QB. The Packer schedule wasn't a collection of East Carolina's. It may surprise you, but very good offenses score A LOT of points against bad teams and not as many against good teams.

The offense that I saw and remember and was a crystal clear reflection of our record is the one that couldn't score against Jax, Tenn, Minn or Tampa. Awful, awful, awful. Put a presentable offense on the field and we're 10-6 and in the playoffs instead of 6-10.

You are just burying the lede here. The defense was terrible and coughed up a lot of fourth quarter leads after the offense had scored. The offense isn't perfect, but it played very well. The defense and special teams were a tire fire. Without the offense, we would have been drafting Matthew Stafford instead of the Lions.

[Fred's Slacks]

Did Clifton go from stud to dud overnight?

I think the answer is yes. Clifton at his best was a great pass protector and a below average run blocker. The pass blocking was not even close to what we were used to last year and he continues to commit far too many drive killing penalties. He is my biggest concern with this team next year.

I think he'll be fine. He's still extremely athletic. Was the pass protection of a problem of incompetent starters (who have been pro-bowlers the year before), or a new quarterback running all over the place making it very difficult to protect for him?

I tend to believe its the latter. I think Clifton will be fine. I definitely think there are much bigger concerns on the OL, and I still think without a doubt he's a top 10 LT.

I hope you're right. If we can have Cliffy in close to prime form, that would go a long way towards solidifying the Offense.

Maybe I'm unfair to Clifton but he was one of my biggest disappointments last season. I remember him doing a pretty good job against Allen week 1 but having a lot of penalties and generally playing sloppy. I remember him playing badly against Tampa and Atlanta and 1 penalty from the second MN game sticks out in my mind. It appeared that we had a beautiful fade route TD to Jennings only to find that Clifton false started. Instead of 6 we had 3rd and 15 and had to settle for a FG.

I do remember how well he played against Freeny and the Colts. IIRC his improved play coincided with M3 making him practice everyday instead of letting him rest his knees. Hopefully they can carry that into this year succesfully.

[woodbuck27]

You still think Rodgers is not the real deal, huh Parsh?

Well, you and LEWCA can have that corner. It's going to be awfully lonely awfully quick.

Not the real deal? He's certainly not a top 5 quarterback imo. Most people in the world aren't. Define real deal. I think he's the 14-16 best starting QB in the NFL right now. Could get better, could get worse. He has an unbelievable amount of talent around him right now, and it will undoubtedly be significantly worse in the future.

I'd definitely put Rogers top 12; possibly top 10 with current performance.

Aaron Rodgers had a great first year as our starting QB in 2008. I was somewhat concerned about his durability previous to last season but he played very strong and was let down by a horrible defense. I see AR having an equally strong season in 2009. He has the confidence of his team behind him and we can look forward to an improved 'D' in 2009 and beyond.

Our record will improve to about 10 wins next season.

GO PACKERS!

That is not taking into account looking into the future

[Tyrone Bigguns]

[quote="Partial"]

WE have phenomenal receivers and they are blue chip. LOL

Didn't say that. We have a top 5 receiving corps in the NFL.

Is it possible at all that Rodgers play was improved due to the phenomenal receiving corps?

I see, our phenominal receivers are phenominal (not that you said that , but they aren't blue chip. Sigh.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

[RashanGary]

I agree with Bretsky. In Rodgers first year starting he was about a top 12 QB. I expect him to be better this year. I expect him to be in the probowl.