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[SkinBasket]

Rather than questioning Patler's right to feel the way he feels, I'd be interested in hearing if there is something we could change or improve to get him posting here again.

That course has been tried and invariably ends with lots of fuck yous and passive aggressive threats of (temporary) banning.

The only thing I'll add to this soup of sadness is in regards to the Joe Saga. It wasn't the "direction" that you were trying to take the site in that people disagreed with, retail and/or Madtown. Fuck, by then whoever was left didn't give a shit anymore. Those of us who liked what this place was when it started had accepted that it would never be that way again, and those who argued so hard for change and regulation still weren't pleased and left anyway. The problem was nothing ever happened. We were promised all this crap, and ended up with a broken homepage and a forum hidden from google for a year. And apparently lying about the ownership didn't sit well with most people. We were thrust into the hands of an anonymous landlord who couldn't trust us enough to divulge his identity, but who asked for trust and help in return. I know you think you made a mistake, and I agree. I just will never understand what about the whole thing ever seemed like a good idea. But I digress. Harlan's a moron.

[Scott Campbell]

That course has been tried and invariably ends with lots of fuck yous and passive aggressive threats of (temporary) banning.

You could be right, but it assumes that we know how Patler will respond. And he might chime in with all the same old criticisms and suggestions. But the reason I enjoy reading Patler so much is that his perspective is very unique. He often surprises. So I won't presume to know how he'd respond here.

[Scott Campbell]

I sense Patler could use a blow job. It appears that Campbell and Ziggy are ready, willing and able to service. No need to push and shove, one at a time.

If you had 1/2 Patler's wisdom, you could finally fulfill your lifelong ambition to lead a cult.

And if that makes me gay, then give me some ass chaps and put me in a parade.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If patler was possessed of great wisdom, he would have forgiven and forgotten the Joe shinnanigans. I agree it sucked, but life is too short to bear grudges over an incident so harmless, other than some sore feelings over getting fooled.

I do not begrudge you your admiration for patler. Perhaps I am jealous of his cult following. Wear those chaps proudly.

[SkinBasket]

You could be right, but it assumes that we know how Patler will respond. And he might chime in with all the same old criticisms and suggestions. But the reason I enjoy reading Patler so much is that his perspective is very unique. He often surprises. So I won't presume to know how he'd respond here.

If patler has the same old criticisms and suggestions maybe someone would be smart enough to listen one of these years. More than like, for anyone suggesting anything that doesn't include doing nothing, there will be platitudes, then excuses, and eventually invitations to sexually delight him/herself. Maybe some indignant claims of ingratitude tossed in too. I could be wrong. All I've got to go on is half a decade of precedent and empty promises. Promises I don't necessary hold against the makers. Just promises that should have never been made.

[Patler]

If patler was possessed of great wisdom, he would have forgiven and forgotten the Joe shinnanigans. I agree it sucked, but life is too short to bear grudges over an incident so harmless, other than some sore feelings over getting fooled.

I do not begrudge you your admiration for patler. Perhaps I am jealous of his cult following. Wear those chaps proudly.

Interesting and inaccurate comment as it pertains to me and the "Joe" saga.

Harlan was one who had the opportunity to read my original long response before I deleted it. In fact, he "responded" of sorts about its length. I acknowledge that he may not in fact have actually read it, perhaps because of its length. However, if he had read it he would realize that I explained I used the "Joe" saga as simple the banner for a number of things. It was not the sole issue, nor even the primary issue, simply the most visible issue of many that would be remembered by most.

I have my original response, because I do much by voice recognition and then transfer the transcript. Perhaps I will just repost it, since my feelings about the "Joe" issue are not remotely what HH suggests.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ok, sorry if i misunderstood youi patler, have been doing speed reading and slow thinking with threads like this. how about a general amnesty for all offenders and responders to offenders? how about a focus on how things are going now and in the future. Is anything f-d up now? Skinbasket?

[Patler]

If patler has the same old criticisms and suggestions maybe someone would be smart enough to listen one of these years. More than like, for anyone suggesting anything that doesn't include doing nothing, there will be platitudes, then excuses, and eventually invitations to sexually delight him/herself. Maybe some indignant claims of ingratitude tossed in too. I could be wrong. All I've got to go on is half a decade of precedent and empty promises. Promises I don't necessary hold against the makers. Just promises that should have never been made.

Actually, I did suggest doing nothing. A board such as this is whatever its prominent posters make it to be, and that changes over time. It has an ever-changing personality. There is nothing wrong with that. Members come and go. They post prolifically for a while, then back off. Sometimes they return, sometimes they don't. That's just the way it is.

Perhaps I should repost my original comments if people really want to discuss it.

[Patler]

(The following is as I originally posted it yesterday, before deleting it.)




"THE NATURAL SELECTION OF BULLETIN BOARD POSTERS"
(A case study of Packerrates and the member "Patler" in the first person.)
by "Patler", 2011.

What the heck, instead of a PM to Mad, I will just go ahead and throw this out there for general consumption, and then duck and cover when the reviews come in.
I will apologize in advance for the length, but people sometimes ask why posters leave, or cut back in their participation, so I will do this once and be done with it.

Patler - What can I say, wow, Im blown away. I guess I will just be totally open with you and hope you can feel me on this.

Let me start by saying I didnt have anything to do with this thread or its topic. I have zero intentions of charging to visit. If you didnt notice I dont even run ads. I have never asked for one cent even if I needed it and guess what I dont need it now. Part of what RG says is true, I was not up to the task of running the forum. You know that but what you dont know why. PackerRats, Retail, "Joe" or I have done nothing that has damaged or cost you anything other than your time which is your choice. If I didnt care about this place Im sure I could have dumped it off somehow. I was just at a time in my life when a family member was ill and my mind and time was elsewhere.

I never thought you had anything to do with this thread.
I didn't think you had an intention to charge.
Coming from the source it did, I knew the thread was bullshit to begin with.
I was going along with it until accused of being a skinflit, when it became time to defend my reasons.

I understand the what and why with "Joe", it has been stated many times. Doesn't make it right.
I recall the prevarications given in response to direct unequivocal questions in threads and PMs about it.
I value honesty and integrity above all else, so this site took a nosedive in my opinion because of it.
I agree it is our choice to be here (or not), which is why I defended my reasons against the "skinflint" allegation.

Now, Mad, don't take this part too personally, it's my attempt at objectivity:
While I appreciate your time, effort and expense in keeping this place going, it neither impresses me unduly nor indebts me to you or anyone else associated with it. You do it for what ever reasons you have. Many others do similar things. It's not some great humanitarian effort. It's one of those things we all do at our own expense in time and money both for our own enjoyment and for that of others who can partake of it. So, Thanks; but don't expect to be included in my will.

I am truly sorry for any personal issues you had at the time, but guess what? Most of us would have understood that and why you needed to get away. Many of us may have offered to help under the situation. You chose a different path. A less honest path. In itself, not a big deal, but a part of the whole which I will explain.

Retailguy was my friend still and someone I trusted enough to ask such a favor. Yeah what I did which was deceptive but really was it that big of a crime? At no point was this forum in any danger of not existing. I figured why not let the place have a different driver for a while. I never really did anything as "Joe" outside of a few things RG wasnt familiar with. RG was the one that handled the persona. We would talk about stuff on the phone some forum some personal. He is a good friend and a good guy. I truly did him wrong with all this and for that Im sorry. He is really the only person I owe an apology to in regard to all that mess.

Alone, no that was not a big deal; but it is a banner for what this site is about in a lot of ways. I don't know how else to say it. The "Joe" situation is not the sole cause of my discontent, it really is only a small part. However, it is so recognizable that it is (was) an easy and quick reference for me earlier in this thread. My issues are not solely with you or those you confide in. It's the fabric of the site itself, which I no longer fit in comfortably.

If any issue is with me for not providing you the examples I said regarding your post I apologize. It was not a big deal to me but maybe it was to you. I meant nothing by it and I had just noticed things like words or grammar I had rarely seen in your post. You have always been a revered poster so it is disappointing that you no longer feel this place is worthy of your time. I wish you would reconsider but either way the show must go on and admission is always free.

Good God, I had forgotten about that. No, this is not all about you. It is the overall attitude that pervades this place. An attitude that is not wrong, inappropriate or evil in any way, but an attitude that apparently I have had enough of, so I have backed away. It is nothing that I want or expect you or anyone else to do anything about. It is what it is. It's like my mother-in-law's turkey stuffing used to be. While I love stuffing of all types normally, hers I found very disagreeable. But she liked it, so I never expected her to change it; I just took very little of it. Same with this website. It is what the predominant posters want it to be, those who dislike it will simply take (and contribute) less. Those who like it will take (and contribute) more. It is neither right nor wrong, it just is.

Don't try to turn this into something it isn't by stating; "You have always been a revered poster so it is disappointing that you no longer feel this place is worthy of your time." Who said anything about worthiness? Each website has a character, a flavor. I simply am not well-suited here anymore. Not a big deal. No ones fault. As I wrote earlier, every site like this is what the predominant posters want it to be, and that is how it should be. It will change over time. It already has changed many times, and it will continue to do so.

So, I have found other sites that suit me better right now. Sites were my threads and comments are accepted for what they are, simple discussion about the Packers. Sites where I have not yet been:

- told that my children must hate me;
- told that even though I do not recognize it in myself, I am a racist;
- told that even though I do not recognize it in myself, I am a humorless individual;
- told that even though I do not recognize it in myself, I have a deep seated desire to trick and embarrass people;
- etc.; etc.; etc.

These were not the normal banter of discussion, these were serious evaluations of some of the self-proclaimed experts on this site. I finally realized that if that is the effect I have on this crowd, I needed to find another crowd, so I did.

Not a single soul on this site really knows me or what my life has stood for. Not a single soul on this site knows why some of those statements (and others) are particularly uncomfortable for me to read, even knowing they are untrue and recognizing the sources of the statements.

Just as a constant drip can overflow a tankcar, I, too, finally had enough. I doubt I will ever leave this site completely, not even the Packer board where the issues predominate; and maybe someday I will return to my former self and start threads and respond to others daily. Not to worry, however, I have been mostly gone from the Packer board for two months already, without most even being aware of it. That is the nature of the animal (a bulletin board), and it is why the animal continues to survive. (Natural selection, if you will.)


CONCLUSION
Members come and members go.
Patler is not the first to substantially curtail his participation.
If it happens, Patler will not be the first old hand to leave completely.
If it happens, Patler will not be the first who has left and returned, assuming both Patler and Packerrats survive. (If anyone lays odds, put your money on Packerrats; Patler is a bit long-in-the-tooth!)

[Scott Campbell]

If patler has the same old criticisms and suggestions maybe someone would be smart enough to listen one of these years. More than like, for anyone suggesting anything that doesn't include doing nothing, there will be platitudes, then excuses, and eventually invitations to sexually delight him/herself. Maybe some indignant claims of ingratitude tossed in too. I could be wrong. All I've got to go on is half a decade of precedent and empty promises. Promises I don't necessary hold against the makers. Just promises that should have never been made.

Valid stuff. And I agree.

I could probably get more worked up over it if he were getting paid, but it's harder for me to criticize him when he's volunteering. I feel like I'm supposed to be grateful for what we have.

[Scott Campbell]

Very thoughtful post Patler, and I think I get it. And I respect it.

[MadtownPacker]

If patler has the same old criticisms and suggestions maybe someone would be smart enough to listen one of these years. More than like, for anyone suggesting anything that doesn't include doing nothing, there will be platitudes, then excuses, and eventually invitations to sexually delight him/herself. Maybe some indignant claims of ingratitude tossed in too. I could be wrong. All I've got to go on is half a decade of precedent and empty promises. Promises I don't necessary hold against the makers. Just promises that should have never been made.

Maybe you can start by saying what you want to say and directly saying it.

But I will start by saying are the biggest whiner but the last to step up and help outside of criticism. But in fairness to you hardly anyone else outside of ziggy, Bretsky, Retailguy and a few others have ever been willing.

[MadtownPacker]

Valid stuff. And I agree.

I could probably get more worked up over it if he were getting paid, but it's harder for me to criticize him when he's volunteering. I feel like I'm supposed to be grateful for what we have.

See post above. BTW you don't owe anyone on here an ounce of gratitude.

[Scott Campbell]

See post above. BTW you don't owe anyone on here an ounce of gratitude.

I owe lots of people here my gratitude!


Harlan, thanks for playing the straight man and being such a good sport for the most part.
Woody, thanks for providing the endless hours of side splitting entertainment.
Skin, thanks for making me feel normal.
Mad, thanks for your investment of time and money in this site despite it's imperfections. And your imperfections.
etc., etc., etc..................

[SkinBasket]

Maybe you can start by saying what you want to say and directly saying it.

But I will start by saying are the biggest whiner but the last to step up and help outside of criticism. But in fairness to you hardly anyone else outside of ziggy, Bretsky, Retailguy and a few others have ever been willing.

i've tried that several times over the years, and was insulted, threatened, and made a target by you and others. A convenient scapegoat. I've shared with you publicly and privately a myriad of thoughts regarding the direction, tone, and mission of the site. At best, I was told i was right, then ignored. At worst, I've been consistently called a whiner who doesn't do anything but gripe about mismanagement. Again, you, and Joe or retail, or whatever, have continued to insult and belittle the very people you then demand respect and assistance from. Not the best policy, in my humble opinion, and the very reason I stopped contributing what little I did. I wasn't looking for special influence due to the time and efforts I gave to you and the site, but I also wasn't looking to be pissed on, mocked, and ignored.

Like I said, I don't really care anymore. You made it clear long ago that caring about the site and it's direction was a dead end. No big deal now. Pretty much everything that made me love this site is dead now and zombies have proven that reanimation never really works. There's a few folks here that I enjoy the company of, and they're what brings me back, unfortunately for the rest of you.