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[MadtownPacker]

I owe lots of people here my gratitude!


Harlan, thanks for playing the straight man and being such a good sport for the most part.
Woody, thanks for providing the endless hours of side splitting entertainment.
Skin, thanks for making me feel normal.
Mad, thanks for your investment of time and money in this site despite it's imperfections. And your imperfections.
etc., etc., etc..................

Like I said willing to lift a finger to point things out but not willing to lift a finger to help out. How about I give you and skinbasket admin rights for a month and see how you handle everything? Regardless of the "imperfections" you so readily acknowledge the place is still running and posters are still talking football and smack for 5 years. Maybe you are up to the challenge of improving that?

[MadtownPacker]

i've tried that several times over the years, and was insulted, threatened, and made a target by you and others. A convenient scapegoat. I've shared with you publicly and privately a myriad of thoughts regarding the direction, tone, and mission of the site. At best, I was told i was right, then ignored. At worst, I've been consistently called a whiner who doesn't do anything but gripe about mismanagement. Again, you, and Joe or retail, or whatever, have continued to insult and belittle the very people you then demand respect and assistance from. Not the best policy, in my humble opinion, and the very reason I stopped contributing what little I did. I wasn't looking for special influence due to the time and efforts I gave to you and the site, but I also wasn't looking to be pissed on, mocked, and ignored.

Like I said, I don't really care anymore. You made it clear long ago that caring about the site and it's direction was a dead end. No big deal now. Pretty much everything that made me love this site is dead now and zombies have proven that reanimation never really works. There's a few folks here that I enjoy the company of, and they're what brings me back, unfortunately for the rest of you.

Sounds like you have your version and I have mine. I don't think we will come to terms so see my offer to scott on the post above.

[Freak Out]

Thanks for bringing Snoopy back Patler.....I don't hate you anymore.

[SkinBasket]

Actually, I did suggest doing nothing.

I have been fighting that fight since day one. All it got me was a crown of poop.

I agree with your assessment about posters coming and going completely. We were a glorious thing when we emerged on these shores. But how quickly we forgot our founding principles and started changing the site to fit the posters. And as the parts started falling off the ship, the captain kept squeezing harder and harder until we were left with this.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.


Madtown, honestly and in every effort to help, I offer you this, which I have offered several times before: this would be much easier if you stopped taking everything so personally. You are not the forum. Our troubles began, in my opinion, when the site became too much of you, or the other way around. It isn't healthy, and it makes it impossible for anyone to offer criticism without you getting your balls all tangled around tossing insults and curses. Everyone appreciates the work you've done. That shouldn't mean we can't disagree with your decisions regarding our interactions as a group without you going all berserko.

[SkinBasket]

Say what you're going to do and do what you say, and the site will be just fine.

[Scott Campbell]

How about I give you and skinbasket admin rights for a month and see how you handle everything?

Worst management decision EVER!


Can somebody be complimentary of you AND still acknowledge that you're not perfect?

Last time I tried to help I attempted to broker a cross promotion deal with another Packer website. You killed it out of hand. I'm not even saying that it was a great idea (which it might have been), I'm saying that your methodology of dismissal isn't going to nurture the kind of contributions you seek.

You're held to a higher standard around here because of your position. Maybe that's not fair, but it is what it is - a thankless job.


I suppose we could all sit around here and blow smoke up your ass to make you happy, but that won't make the site any better.


Maybe you won't believe it, but I'm hoping that you and this site thrive.

[Scott Campbell]

.....this would be much easier if you stopped taking everything so personally.

I see this same thing. It's not easy taking criticism. It's also not that pleasant to give it. Who enjoys telling somebody that their baby is ugly?

Mad typically reacts. Of course that's the natural thing to do. But it's not the best thing to do.

[MadtownPacker]

I have been fighting that fight since day one. All it got me was a crown of poop.

I agree with your assessment about posters coming and going completely. We were a glorious thing when we emerged on these shores. But how quickly we forgot our founding principles and started changing the site to fit the posters. And as the parts started falling off the ship, the captain kept squeezing harder and harder until we were left with this.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.


Madtown, honestly and in every effort to help, I offer you this, which I have offered several times before: this would be much easier if you stopped taking everything so personally. You are not the forum. Our troubles began, in my opinion, when the site became too much of you, or the other way around. It isn't healthy, and it makes it impossible for anyone to offer criticism without you getting your balls all tangled around tossing insults and curses. Everyone appreciates the work you've done. That shouldn't mean we can't disagree with your decisions regarding our interactions as a group without you going all berserko.

You tell me not to take things personal and then you take your digs at me personally. Seems like your issue is with me but ok. I run the forum but I don't get how it is too much of me so please explain. I have alway been open to discussion but the way you present it ain't always too cool. I'm sure I'm to blame for several times but maybe you also should take some of the blame? If you want an example look at your first post on this thread. Is that really productive? Is this post of mine productive? I don't think so. So I am asking, what can I do to make things better?

[ThunderDan]

You tell me not to take things personal and then you take your digs at me personally. Seems like your issue is with me but ok. I run the forum but I don't get how it is too much of me so please explain. I have alway been open to discussion but the way you present it ain't always too cool. I'm sure I'm to blame for several times but maybe you also should take some of the blame? If you want an example look at your first post on this thread. Is that really productive? Is this post of mine productive? I don't think so. So I am asking, what can I do to make things better?

Is this a serious offer? I usually stay out of these threads because I wasn't one of the "founders." I just want to know before I put anything else into this site without getting whipsawed by Retailguy and Admin Joe.

[SkinBasket]

That course has been tried and invariably ends with lots of fuck yous and passive aggressive threats of (temporary) banning.

The only thing I'll add to this soup of sadness is in regards to the Joe Saga. It wasn't the "direction" that you were trying to take the site in that people disagreed with, retail and/or Madtown. Fuck, by then whoever was left didn't give a shit anymore. Those of us who liked what this place was when it started had accepted that it would never be that way again, and those who argued so hard for change and regulation still weren't pleased and left anyway. The problem was nothing ever happened. We were promised all this crap, and ended up with a broken homepage and a forum hidden from google for a year. And apparently lying about the ownership didn't sit well with most people. We were thrust into the hands of an anonymous landlord who couldn't trust us enough to divulge his identity, but who asked for trust and help in return. I know you think you made a mistake, and I agree. I just will never understand what about the whole thing ever seemed like a good idea. But I digress. Harlan's a moron.

You tell me not to take things personal and then you take your digs at me personally. Seems like your issue is with me but ok. I run the forum but I don't get how it is too much of me so please explain. I have alway been open to discussion but the way you present it ain't always too cool. I'm sure I'm to blame for several times but maybe you also should take some of the blame? If you want an example look at your first post on this thread. Is that really productive? Is this post of mine productive? I don't think so. So I am asking, what can I do to make things better?

I think my first post kind of proves my point in regards to your reply. How did I take my digs at you? Other than just recalling what happened here? I'm not getting it. I don't hate you. I hate what you did to the forum.

I'll think, again, on your question and get back to you, in case it matters this time.

[Scott Campbell]

Is this a serious offer? I usually stay out of these threads because I wasn't one of the "founders." I just want to know before I put anything else into this site without getting whipsawed by Retailguy and Admin Joe.

Your one of the core posters of the present. I wouldn't say that about me.

Many of the founders are irrelevant today - either gone, or like me they don't contribute much any more.

[MadtownPacker]

Is this a serious offer? I usually stay out of these threads because I wasn't one of the "founders." I just want to know before I put anything else into this site without getting whipsawed by Retailguy and Admin Joe.

yes it is and is open to all members old and new.

FYI Retail will have nothing to do with the running the forum. If he is still willing his expertise would be great towards the operation of the site.

[MadtownPacker]

I think my first post kind of proves my point in regards to your reply. How did I take my digs at you? Other than just recalling what happened here? I'm not getting it. I don't hate you. I hate what you did to the forum.

I'll think, again, on your question and get back to you, in case it matters this time.

Ok lets skip all the he said it said BS. Tell what I did to the forum that you hate. Seriously.

[MadtownPacker]

Your one of the core posters of the present. I wouldn't say that about me.

Many of the founders are irrelevant today - either gone, or like me they don't contribute much any more.

This is false. For as many times that I would loved to have slit your throat I have always felt that you are part of this forum. I remember back at JSO we would both whup up on trolls. Somewhere we lost our way.

Those posters are still around because the activity log show several have logged on recently but they do not post. That is what we have to fix but I really dont know how.

[HowardRoark]

Very thoughtful post Patler, and I think I get it. And I respect it.

I think he is trying to trick us.