Do yourself a favor...............

[MJZiggy]

I don't need a movie to tell me that. I've spent enough time in the ER to know what it's like and the movie will only depress me.

[PackerBlues]

Packerblues wrote: trailing only Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, a member of the Republican leadership.
How old is this movie? Rick Santorum was voted out of office last November and has been replaced by a Democrat, Bob Casey Jr.

Sorry, that bit of info is something that I googled, No intention of misleading you, it must have been an old article that I got that from. The film did however mention Hillary Clinton in the context that she did push for universal health care, only to drop it once she started recieving big money contributions from the health care industry.

The film took two years to make from what I understand. He interviewed a few cancer patients that were refused treatment because their health insurance would not cover it.........he then went on to tell you that this person that you just watch crying, died a year or so later. Many sad stories.

[BallHawk]

Moore does some good work, but he also does some garbage.

[oregonpackfan]

I don't need a movie to tell me that. I've spent enough time in the ER to know what it's like and the movie will only depress me.

MJZiggy,

Has your emergency room experience been for yourself or your children?

Most of my ER experience has been as a parent. My two daughters have had: 2 broken arms(1 severe), a laceration, a spider bite, and a spinal cord scare. Other than the excessive wait time and the persoanlapprehension, my experiences were favorable. The quality of care received varied from good to excellent

[MJZiggy]

The ER stuff was mostly for me. I've only had a kid in the ER once and that was when he was a baby and I don't know if it was because the doctor called ahead or not, but that was pretty good. I have had far more mixed results from decent care to not decent care. I've also seen what the waiting rooms look like at all hours of the day and night. I recommend if you're gonna need the ER, you should do so about 8 a.m.

[PackerBlues]

I am sure a person can get great health care here in this country........but at what cost?

During his "illegal" trip to Cuba, Moore took some people who worked at ground zero of 9/11 with him. They were denied treatment in the U.S. because they were volunteers, and not on the city payroll. One of those people with chronic lung problems from her volunteer work, was shocked to find out that the "inhaler"device that she now needs and pays $120. for, could be bought for roughly 5 cents in Cuba. She said she uses about 2 of them a month.

I also found it interesting that despite a stark lack of resources, laboratories in the impoverished suburbs of the capital Havana have made startling strides in developing revolutionary vaccines and antibodies against meningitis, hepatitis, and lung, breast, head and neck cancers.
But their use in other parts of the world has been hindered up to now by the Helms-Burton Act.

People in the United States were missing out on the treatment that could be given them by the groundbreaking work done in Cuba, simply because our government has deemed Cubans to be EVIL. I had read somewhere, that Cuban doctors shared these advancements with doctors in California. Just read it on a random website while googleing for more info on the subject. Not going to bother trying to find it again, anyone interested can start googleing it on their own.

Funny how its illegal to do business of any kind with Cuba, and yet Republican candidate Fred Thompson is not afraid to get on camera and flaunt his big old Cuban cigar openly. Just one more fat-assed republican blow hard.

[Partial]

Packerblues wrote: trailing only Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, a member of the Republican leadership.
How old is this movie? Rick Santorum was voted out of office last November and has been replaced by a Democrat, Bob Casey Jr.

Rick Santorum is a jackass. I love the piece the onion did on him.

[Partial]

If healthcare becomes nationalized (worst possible idea ever), all drug innovation will stop.

It costs 800,000,000~ USD to get a drug on the market. Without incentives and the ability to charge a good amount for it, where will the innovation come in?

Biochemists with their PhD's don't work for free, you know.

Self-righteous (yet a millionaire many times over) MM doesn't consider any of this, nor does he donate any of the proceeds from his flicks, and slants facts big time. He is an asshat.

[PackerBlues]

If healthcare becomes nationalized (worst possible idea ever), all drug innovation will stop.

It costs 800,000,000~ USD to get a drug on the market. Without incentives and the ability to charge a good amount for it, where will the innovation come in?

Biochemists with their PhD's don't work for free, you know.

Self-righteous (yet a millionaire many times over) MM doesn't consider any of this, nor does he donate any of the proceeds from his flicks, and slants facts big time. He is an asshat.

Again, just watch the damned movie. For fucks sake, what would it hurt. How much do you think those Cuban scientist were paid for their breakthroughs in fighting cancer?
As far as Moore being an asshat.........I could care less. If you have not seen this particular movie, then you are just assuming. Moore did seem pretty damned proud of himself for an "anonymous" donation that he made to a guy running the #1 "I hate Michael Moore" website. According to him, this guy had to shut down his website, because his wife was ill, and without good health insurance, the bills were getting to be more than he could handle. Moore supposedly sent the guy a check for $12,000 to cover his wifes doctor bills.

[Partial]

If healthcare becomes nationalized (worst possible idea ever), all drug innovation will stop.

It costs 800,000,000~ USD to get a drug on the market. Without incentives and the ability to charge a good amount for it, where will the innovation come in?

Biochemists with their PhD's don't work for free, you know.

Self-righteous (yet a millionaire many times over) MM doesn't consider any of this, nor does he donate any of the proceeds from his flicks, and slants facts big time. He is an asshat.

Again, just watch the damned movie. For fucks sake, what would it hurt. How much do you think those Cuban scientist were paid for their breakthroughs in fighting cancer?
As far as Moore being an asshat.........I could care less. If you have not seen this particular movie, then you are just assuming. Moore did seem pretty damned proud of himself for an "anonymous" donation that he made to a guy running the #1 "I hate Michael Moore" website. According to him, this guy had to shut down his website, because his wife was ill, and without good health insurance, the bills were getting to be more than he could handle. Moore supposedly sent the guy a check for $12,000 to cover his wifes doctor bills.

Nothing is discovered, tested, etc. in Cuba. It is almost all done in America (we have by far the best universities in the world). When is the last time you heard of any major medical break-throughs from a third world country? Hell, even other powerhouse countries like China, UK, etc. It is extremely rare.

Quite honestly, I don't really feel sorry for those people that don't have insurance. That is their own dumb faults. If they cannot afford it because there job doesn't pay enough, maybe they should work a little harder, better themselves, and get a better job.

[Freak Out]

Packerblues wrote: trailing only Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, a member of the Republican leadership.
How old is this movie? Rick Santorum was voted out of office last November and has been replaced by a Democrat, Bob Casey Jr.

Rick Santorum is a jackass. I love the piece the onion did on him.

Are you talking about Rick "Frothy Mix" Santorum? I would have to agree with you.

http://www.spreadingsantorum.com/

[PackerBlues]

Nothing is discovered, tested, etc. in Cuba. It is almost all done in America (we have by far the best universities in the world). When is the last time you heard of any major medical break-throughs from a third world country?

I believe that would have been when I just typed the words "cancer treatment" and "Cuba" into the Google search engine and got 1,140,000 hits. Give it a shot genius.

Quite honestly, I don't really feel sorry for those people that don't have insurance. That is their own dumb faults. If they cannot afford it because there job doesn't pay enough, maybe they should work a little harder, better themselves, and get a better job.

After reading this, I can only assume, that you are an ignorant, arrogant asshole. For you, its all about the "haves" and the "have-nots", you have, and therefore you could care less about anyone else. What a great fucking humanitarian you must be.

[Partial]

I believe that would have been when I just typed the words "cancer treatment" and "Cuba" into the Google search engine and got 1,140,000 hits. Give it a shot genius.

Find me one RECENT drug funded by, discovered, studied, tested, etc. in Cuba. Progress costs money. Lots and lots of it. The people that do this research spent 4 years of undergrad doing work, and up to 6 years of graduate work. That is 10 years of college. I think they deserve to make 200k if thats what they want.

After reading this, I can only assume, that you are an ignorant, arrogant asshole. For you, its all about the "haves" and the "have-nots", you have, and therefore you could care less about anyone else. What a great fucking humanitarian you must be.

I couldn't care less about someone elses problems. Everyone in America is looking for a handout. Call me a staunch conservative, a hard worker, whatever you would like. It doesn't matter to me. All I know is that I could not care less because johnny jerkoff works at McDonalds(a non-skilled position job that should only be occupied by high schoolers) because he didn't pay attention in high school and thought selling drugs was a better bet to make the big bucks versus going to college and putting in the hard work. If he did what it took to get ahead in life, he'd have insurance and wouldn't have to worry about footing expensive bills.

It all comes down to the cost of drugs. They are high in America because we have to not only pay for the drugs but for the testing, the manufacturing, the researching, etc.

[PackerBlues]

Wow, this is way to funny. Again, the film only talks briefly about uninsured people. The rest of the film talks about how people who have health insurance still go into debt because insurance companies will look for any reason they can find to deny coverage. The people that simply go into debt, are again, the lucky ones. Moore shows case after case of insured people who died, because of the excuses given by the insurance companies as to why they would not cover certain life saving operations or procedures.

The movie also does a great job of pointing out that America is ranked way lower (38th I believe it was) than even most 3rd world countries in quality of health care coverage, by the World Health Care Organization. Barely beating out Cuba.

[PackerBlues]

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

#1 France

#2 Italy

#3 San Marino

#4 Andorra

#5 Malta

#6 Singapore

#7 Spain

#8 Oman

#9 Austria

#10 Japan

#11 Norway

#12 Portugal

#13 Monaco

#14 Greece

#15 Iceland

#16 Luxembourg

#17 Netherlands

#18 United Kingdom

#19 Ireland

#20 Switzerland

#21 Belgium

#22 Colombia

#23 Sweden

#24 Cyprus

#25 Germany

#26 Saudi Arabia

#27 United Arab Emirates

#28 Israel

#29 Morocco

#30 Canada

#31 Finland

#32 Australia

#33 Chile

#34 Denmark

#35 Doninica

#36 Costa Rica

#37 United states of America


#38 Slovenia

#39 Cuba


For being the richest most powerfull country in the world, you would think we would rank a little higher than 37th.