Ron Paul

[MJZiggy]

Give him a couple shots at it. He may be the new Perot...

[Scott Campbell]

This is why I won't be voting for Rudy. I've been trying to find this since this discussion came up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aqrEw901KXE

I'm loyal to my furry friends.

Good clip! I'm with you, lol. What I wonder about that incident is whether Americans will like Rudy more for his approach, or dislike him more because of the use of his platform to emotionally bully and belittle.

Does anyone remember that incident where some mayor kicked a Beagle, or something like that (I don't quite recall it)? I only remember that it got a lot of bad press for the guy, Beagles being seen as the most lovable breed of dog out there, never mind them being our best friends overall, lol.

I wasn't planning on voting for him, but that clip reinforced my decision.

[falco]

How could you be against such an all american animal:

[Terry]

People say Clinton lied, some say he committed perjury. Who cares?

Who cares?

1) Me.
2) Lots of other people, but not everybody.
3) The United States House of Representatives.

I'm sure I've left somebody out. Some of us have higher standards of conduct for our president than others. Implying that Clinton didn't do anything wrong (the who cares comment) by complaining that George is worse smells like it's tainted by the same partisanship you denounce in your post.

I haven't noticed those higher standards of conduct for the president that you are touting here, but to each his own.

What I meant was that I'm a lot less concerned by a president's sexual peccadilloes and everything attendant to them than I am about threats to the American constitutional system. It has nothing to do with partisanship - and I'm not trying to contend that I am not personally partisan. I just don't care who has sex with who and whether they lie about it or not, be they republican or democrat.

I don't care any more about what the House of Representatives think than you do when it's filled with democrats. You could have included them all in your 2nd category - lots of other people.

Meanwhile, I'm every bit as concerned about a Hillary Clinton who has imperial powers as I am about a George Bush having them. The only surprise for me would be that you seemingly aren't.

[Terry]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/10/2007-08-10_911_workers_outraged_by_new_rudy_claim.html

9/11 Workers Outraged by New Rudy Claim
By Celest Katz
The New York Daily News

Friday 10 August 2007

Rudy Giuliani drew outrage and indignation from Sept. 11 first-responders yesterday by saying he spent as much time - or more - exposed to the site's dangers as workers who dug through the debris for the missing and the dead.

Speaking to reporters at a Cincinnati Reds ballgame he caught between fund-raisers, the GOP front-runner said he helped 9/11 families and defended himself against critics of how he managed the attack's aftermath.

"This is not a mayor or a governor or a President who's sitting in an ivory tower," Giuliani said. "I was at Ground Zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers. I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I'm one of them."

His statement rang false to Queens paramedic Marvin Bethea, who said he suffered a stroke, posttraumatic stress disorder and breathing problems after responding to the attacks.

"I personally find that very, very insulting," he said.

"Standing there doing a photo-op and telling the men, 'You're doing a good job,' I don't consider that to be working," said Bethea, 47.

Ironworker Jonathan Sferazo, 52, who said he spent a month at the site and is now disabled, runs a worker advocacy group with Bethea and called Giuliani's comments "severely" out of line.

"He's not one of us. He never has been and he never will be. He never served in a capacity where he was a responder," Sferazo said.

In the aftermath of the attacks, admirers dubbed Giuliani "America's Mayor," praising his leadership in the face of an unprecedented disaster. Detractors, including the International Association of Fire Fighters, which put out a scathing 13-minute video on his performance, suggested he profited politically and financially from the attacks.

"[Giuliani] is self-absorbed, arrogant and deluded," said IAFF spokesman Jeff Zack.

Responded Giuliani spokesman Michael McKeon, "Americans saw Rudy's performance for themselves during the aftermath of 9/11 and will dismiss this as the ridiculous and partisan rantings of a Democratic front group, because that's what they are."

Giuliani backer Lee Ielpi, a retired firefighter who lost his son, said no one's saying Giuliani dug through the rubble personally, but that doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to toxins.

"For me to say I saw him every day [would] not be fair," said Ielpi, who participated in the recovery effort for nine months. "But I can say I did see the mayor there a large number of times, [trying] to be as helpful and supportive as possible."

[Scott Campbell]

Meanwhile, I'm every bit as concerned about a Hillary Clinton who has imperial powers as I am about a George Bush having them. The only surprise for me would be that you seemingly aren't.

I'm surprised too. How on earth did you arrive at that whacky conclusion?

I guess I'll clarify the record even though I think it's kind of silly to think otherwise - I too am against any president having imperial powers.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't care any more about what the House of Representatives think than you do when it's filled with democrats.

Another goofy set of conclusions. I've voted for Jim Matheson (D) in the last two elections. If a Democratic House impeached a president, I'd care.

[Terry]

Back off a little, Scott. And stop trying to insult me. What I said was that some people say he (Clinton) lied, others say he committed perjury, who cares - meaning I don't much care about the distinction, particularly when it comes to one's personal sex life. The distinction, not about lying. If it concerns a murder, I certainly care in both cases - if it concerns an affair, I don't care in either case.

As for the House, I also care if they impeach someone and I too think it would be silly to think otherwise, so nice try shifting the focus to set up your little insult. I was talking about the same original subject.

My original comments were not aimed at any individual here in particular and I don't much appreciate you targeting me to play these silly little oneupsmanship games.

So go troll on someone else. I dislike dishonesty in discourse with anyone - whether it's perjury or just plain simple game playing. I'm out of this thread, so you go ahead and have your last word.

[GrnBay007]

I think political threads are bad for any forum...that is not meant to be political. It would be great if there could be calm/rational discussion and everyone accepting of other's thoughts/positions. I've never ever seen that accomplished when talking politics.....or religion for that matter. It never seems to fail. The banter/bitterness/sarcasm spills over to other areas of the forum. Just my opinion. Prove me wrong guys.

[Scott Campbell]

Back off a little, Scott. And stop trying to insult me.

I'm not trying to insult you. You misrepresented my position on two occassions, either intentionally or unintentionally. In such cases I'm going to do two things:

1) Clarify my position.
2) I'll do so strongly enough to discourage the perp. from doing it again.

That's it. You don't need to read anything else into it. I respect your other positions even if I don't agree with all of them.

As far as political threads go, this seems pretty mild. I thought it was church league rules in here - no blood, no foul.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

Where did you ever say that. LOL. How about your Google thread:

"Right now, pretty much AT&T controls the way we connect to the internet whether anyone wants to admit it or not. For a company that went bankrupt and got 2 billion from the government, they have come back very strong and showed no remorse towards their customers.

Then you should really get your facts straight because AT&T is behind just about every provider in the world. That road runner connection your using is going through AT&T at some point."

Credentials: You can question them all you want. I would expect that outta someone who has done nothing yet. I'm sure you will be a shining example for UWM someday. As for middle management, i'm not there. But, for you to denigrate someone who actually has is kinda foolish. When you are in the real world you will see making it to middle management is an accomplishment.

Win: You need to relax. My response was to Scott, not directed at you. It was a discussion, there is no intention of winning. Because what is there to win?

But, feel free to keep your obsession with me. FYI, tommorow I will be wearing my grey trousers and white shirt. That should tide you over.

Feel free to continue to spout off and then get slapped rhetorically.

[Partial]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

Where did you ever say that. LOL. How about your Google thread:

"Right now, pretty much AT&T controls the way we connect to the internet whether anyone wants to admit it or not. For a company that went bankrupt and got 2 billion from the government, they have come back very strong and showed no remorse towards their customers.

Then you should really get your facts straight because AT&T is behind just about every provider in the world. That road runner connection your using is going through AT&T at some point."

Credentials: You can question them all you want. I would expect that outta someone who has done nothing yet. I'm sure you will be a shining example for UWM someday. As for middle management, i'm not there. But, for you to denigrate someone who actually has is kinda foolish. When you are in the real world you will see making it to middle management is an accomplishment.

Win: You need to relax. My response was to Scott, not directed at you. It was a discussion, there is no intention of winning. Because what is there to win?

But, feel free to keep your obsession with me. FYI, tommorow I will be wearing my grey trousers and white shirt. That should tide you over.

Feel free to continue to spout off and then get slapped rhetorically.

I was referencing the Obama being a Muslim, not the AT&T thing. I already told you once you do your homework we can discuss it.

A shining example of UWM I will be. As you know since you previously commented on it, I will be going to some sort of grad school or taking the actuarial exams. For what or where exactly I know not, but I have the grades and the credentials to make it into the lower portion of the top 10 schools in a couple of fields. Who knows what I will be doing someday, but if you looked up the definition of tenacity in the dictionary there would be a picture of me. I would like to think that someday I will be a shining example of a good, successful family man. I don't think what school I attended would have any bearing on that.

I still maintain I have does as much if not more than Obama has done already. He is just a pretty face and a good speaker.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

Where did you ever say that. LOL. How about your Google thread:

"Right now, pretty much AT&T controls the way we connect to the internet whether anyone wants to admit it or not. For a company that went bankrupt and got 2 billion from the government, they have come back very strong and showed no remorse towards their customers.

Then you should really get your facts straight because AT&T is behind just about every provider in the world. That road runner connection your using is going through AT&T at some point."

Credentials: You can question them all you want. I would expect that outta someone who has done nothing yet. I'm sure you will be a shining example for UWM someday. As for middle management, i'm not there. But, for you to denigrate someone who actually has is kinda foolish. When you are in the real world you will see making it to middle management is an accomplishment.

Win: You need to relax. My response was to Scott, not directed at you. It was a discussion, there is no intention of winning. Because what is there to win?

But, feel free to keep your obsession with me. FYI, tommorow I will be wearing my grey trousers and white shirt. That should tide you over.

Feel free to continue to spout off and then get slapped rhetorically.

I was referencing the Obama being a Muslim, not the AT&T thing. I already told you once you do your homework we can discuss it.

A shining example of UWM I will be. As you know since you previously commented on it, I will be going to some sort of grad school or taking the actuarial exams. For what or where exactly I know not, but I have the grades and the credentials to make it into the lower portion of the top 10 schools in a couple of fields. Who knows what I will be doing someday, but if you looked up the definition of tenacity in the dictionary there would be a picture of me. I would like to think that someday I will be a shining example of a good, successful family man. I don't think what school I attended would have any bearing on that.

I still maintain I have does as much if not more than Obama has done already. He is just a pretty face and a good speaker.

Homework: Um, and your response to the graphic that was proviced in that thread. Clearly showed that AT&T wasn't in control as you stated.

Top 10: Until you are accepted it is all talk. And, w/o verification, it is just more of your pontificating.

[Partial]

CHC it is not worth getting into it.

Tyrone will cite his opinion as a fact and then criticize you for a lack of facts

I would get out before he just pisses you off and makes you snap.

Man, you are obsessed with me.

What opinions would that be? Like the fact that that AT&T doesn't control the internet like you said. Guess the data is my opinion.

Perhaps you should talk less and listen more, especially from someone who thought Obama was muslim.

Again, where did I ever say that?

I question your credentials. I still maintain you're milking your 4 years at UW and give yourself a little ego stroke despite being near 40 and finally only getting to a middle-management position at some shitty job.

And you most definitely did not win. But I could see where you would think that considering you HAVE to be right and EVERYONE else is automatically wrong. Considering you still have clearly not done your homework on the internet thing, or else you wouldn't still be singing that tune.

CHC pretty much bitch slapped your silly post from end to end. Time to go back to the drawing board and continue eating up the mindless, actionless statements of your boy Obama Hussein.

Where did you ever say that. LOL. How about your Google thread:

"Right now, pretty much AT&T controls the way we connect to the internet whether anyone wants to admit it or not. For a company that went bankrupt and got 2 billion from the government, they have come back very strong and showed no remorse towards their customers.

Then you should really get your facts straight because AT&T is behind just about every provider in the world. That road runner connection your using is going through AT&T at some point."

Credentials: You can question them all you want. I would expect that outta someone who has done nothing yet. I'm sure you will be a shining example for UWM someday. As for middle management, i'm not there. But, for you to denigrate someone who actually has is kinda foolish. When you are in the real world you will see making it to middle management is an accomplishment.

Win: You need to relax. My response was to Scott, not directed at you. It was a discussion, there is no intention of winning. Because what is there to win?

But, feel free to keep your obsession with me. FYI, tommorow I will be wearing my grey trousers and white shirt. That should tide you over.

Feel free to continue to spout off and then get slapped rhetorically.

I was referencing the Obama being a Muslim, not the AT&T thing. I already told you once you do your homework we can discuss it.

A shining example of UWM I will be. As you know since you previously commented on it, I will be going to some sort of grad school or taking the actuarial exams. For what or where exactly I know not, but I have the grades and the credentials to make it into the lower portion of the top 10 schools in a couple of fields. Who knows what I will be doing someday, but if you looked up the definition of tenacity in the dictionary there would be a picture of me. I would like to think that someday I will be a shining example of a good, successful family man. I don't think what school I attended would have any bearing on that.

I still maintain I have does as much if not more than Obama has done already. He is just a pretty face and a good speaker.

Homework: Um, and your response to the graphic that was proviced in that thread. Clearly showed that AT&T wasn't in control as you stated.

Top 10: Until you are accepted it is all talk. And, w/o verification, it is just more of your pontificating.

Said graphic was correct to an extent but does not take a few facts into consideration.

[Joemailman]

You guys keep quoting each other and pretty soon you'll need two pages for a single post.