No. 4 Should Have Been At Mini-Camp, If He's Still A Leader

[RashanGary]

SOV complains about Favre receiving special treatment yet he ONLY creates a thread about Favre not attending mini-camp, but not for the other 30 something players that did not attend? Where is the attention they deserve?

Great point.

[Bossman641]

SOV complains about Favre receiving special treatment yet he ONLY creates a thread about Favre not attending mini-camp, but not for the other 30 something players that did not attend? Where is the attention they deserve?

I'm not SOV but I'll give my take on this. It's more than just the fact that Favre missed a minicamp. For me, it is a collection of things. The constant will-he or won't-he retire that has been going on for years. The skipping of minicamps, not just this year but others as well. The statements of "this is how I've always played the game and I'm not going to change" and "I'm not sure if I want the ball come crunch time." The dissing of management and his teammates during the offseason.

I want Favre to have a HUUGE season. I don't want a repeat of last year. To me at least, it appears as if Favre is not totally committed and that could lead to another awful year. My take on all of this is that Favre is simply not ready to leave the spotlight. It appears as if Favre has transformed from the ultimate team-first player that we have all adored over the years to one that is simply more concerned about his own comfort.

You may want to blame the whole Favre circus on the media. If that is the case I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Patler]

Here's a reason I hadn't thought of, why Favre should be there:

"But for the third straight day, Ruvell Martin turned heads, especially with a deep sideline catch. It looked as if he went up a stepladder to get the ball and he landed well in bounds.

"The three quarterbacks in camp, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin and Tom Arth, seemed to be throwing the ball higher to the 6-foot-4 Martin. Now the Packers will have to determine whether Martin is one of those players who looks great in May but fades to a memory by mid-August. They'll also have to find out how he does catching one of Brett Favre's missiles."

God forbid......lets not let Martin or the others have to wait a day or two or a week or two to catch one of Favre's "missiles". Please........lets not be Drama Queens over this.
Favre spreads it out....he's always shared the passes. If this guy is good enough, Favre will find him.

Who the hell is being a drama queen? You who think it is fine and dandy that your supposed team leader skips out on a weekend camp are the ones making a big deal out of this. All I did is point out inconsistencies in the stories that lead me to believe this is Favre's decision, not MM's. I have said several times IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL, but I think it is stupid on his part not to be there, unless he legitimately has a significant conflict. (None has been mentioned that I have seen.)

The quote concerning Ruvell Martin was intended to be tongue in cheek.

30 vets missing from camp? Not according to MM. He said 22, with 12 having injuries and 10 excused. But from the pictures and stories it seems like many of the them showed up anyway. Clifton was there, Green was there. Thornburg was there. All had been listed as expected "no shows". I have no idea about others, but I believe I read that Davenport was there, and some of the surgery recoveries have been there recuperating.

It never ceases to amaze me how unwilling some fans are to even let a hint of a thought enter their minds that their sports hero isn't perfect. The minute a negative comment comes out, the name calling and belittling begins. An unemotional debate is impossible.

[GrnBay007]

OK, I shouldn't have used your quote Shamrock......I wasn't calling you a drama queen. It's just the whole topic in general. Like you said .....nobody has mentioned the reason he wasn't there so I can't figure out why everyone wants to jump down his throat.

[Patler]

OK, I shouldn't have used your quote Shamrock......I wasn't calling you a drama queen. It's just the whole topic in general. Like you said .....nobody has mentioned the reason he wasn't there so I can't figure out why everyone wants to jump down his throat.

I think it is easy to understand why this bothers a lot of people.
New coaching staff.
New offense.
Lots of new players last year, probably a lot more this year.
Bad year last year for the team.
Worst year ever last year for Favre in many respects.

Put that all together and you want your team leaders to really lead. Demonstrate the importance of off season activities, conditioning etc.
Show the team that last year was not acceptable.
Show that you as a team leader will do everything you can to make last year an aberation, including rededicating yourself to team success .

Again, I don't think it is a real big deal by any means, but I find it disappointing unless there is a real good reason for Favre not being there. With all the attention his every move has, if he had a conflict it would seem like that would have been made known.

It has to make it a bit hard for the staff to try and impress upon players that these are important to the team if Favre doesn't see it as being important enough for him to be there. I think it was a bit different last year with a holdover staff. Just more of the same at the camps and much more important to newer players then Packer veterans. I see this year as a bit different because there is a new staff. It would have been nice for Favre to show a 100% commitment to the new coaches and what they are trying to do, especially after Favre waffled so much about even coming back this year.

Again, not a big deal, but kind of a mixed message being sent by Favre by not being there.

[mraynrand]

Given the level of reaction generated by Favre missing these three very important minicamp practices, it's clear that he should probably attend them, if for no other reason, as a good PR move. The negativists who blame Favre for all (or at least an unfair majority) of his 29 INTs last year might pipe down a little (but I suspect they'll find something else to complain about - see the thread on corn....).

Just a thought, but does anyone think in retrospect that when the coaches made all those comments about when they wanted Favre to start throwing in the off-season and how many throws they were going to allow, they were possibly providing cover for Favre.


Anyway, I'm hoping the Favre watchers and the entire Packer team will recover from this recent terrible set-back and treason by Favre in time for training camp - or the next critical voluntary involuntary required but excusable-to-miss off-season opportunity session mini-camp, whichever comes first. My prayers are with you traumatized fans and the whole team.

[Patler]

Given the level of reaction generated by Favre missing these three very important minicamp practices, it's clear that he should probably attend them, if for no other reason, as a good PR move. The negativists who blame Favre for all (or at least an unfair majority) of his 29 INTs last year might pipe down a little (but I suspect they'll find something else to complain about - see the thread on corn....).

Just a thought, but does anyone think in retrospect that when the coaches made all those comments about when they wanted Favre to start throwing in the off-season and how many throws they were going to allow, they were possibly providing cover for Favre.


Anyway, I'm hoping the Favre watchers and the entire Packer team will recover from this recent terrible set-back and treason by Favre in time for training camp - or the next critical voluntary involuntary required but excusable-to-miss off-season opportunity session mini-camp, whichever comes first. My prayers are with you traumatized fans and the whole team.

So why can't this just be a simple discussion???

[Patler]

Given the level of reaction generated by Favre missing these three very important minicamp practices, it's clear that he should probably attend them, if for no other reason, as a good PR move. The negativists who blame Favre for all (or at least an unfair majority) of his 29 INTs last year might pipe down a little (but I suspect they'll find something else to complain about - see the thread on corn....).


Just a thought, but does anyone think in retrospect that when the coaches made all those comments about when they wanted Favre to start throwing in the off-season and how many throws they were going to allow, they were possibly providing cover for Favre.


Anyway, I'm hoping the Favre watchers and the entire Packer team will recover from this recent terrible set-back and treason by Favre in time for training camp - or the next critical voluntary involuntary required but excusable-to-miss off-season opportunity session mini-camp, whichever comes first. My prayers are with you traumatized fans and the whole team.

So why can't this just be a simple discussion???

I'll answer my own question - because it involves Favre. Very few people will tolerate a simple, fact based discussion about Favre.

[MJZiggy]

That is, perhaps not only because of his polarizing popularity, but also because we are trying to have a discussion regarding his motivation for skipping camp, and his reasons for absence which we do not know. Considering his level of involvement this offseason and how quickly it was announce that he would not be here, there must be some conflict (I still could swear I read of a charity conflict though I can't find the source to prove it).

Also, those that are saying that Favre's absence is telling the rookies that they don't have to totally commit to the team is silly to me. If I'm a National Football League rookie, I'm fighting for my job and my team leader could be picking his butt on the sideline for all I care. It's my job to dedicate myself to making the team no matter what ANYBODY else does and if I'm sitting back thinking that if my 15-year vet QB doesn't have to be there then I don't either, I won't be around long. What Favre does should not influence Blackmon in the least and I'm sure it doesn't. Also, there will be 10 OTA's and all of training camp for Martin to catch Favre's bullets. How 'bout we let him learn the system before we start breaking his fingers?

[Patler]

That is, perhaps not only because of his polarizing popularity, but also because we are trying to have a discussion regarding his motivation for skipping camp, and his reasons for absence which we do not know. Considering his level of involvement this offseason and how quickly it was announce that he would not be here, there must be some conflict (I still could swear I read of a charity conflict though I can't find the source to prove it).

Also, those that are saying that Favre's absence is telling the rookies that they don't have to totally commit to the team is silly to me. If I'm a National Football League rookie, I'm fighting for my job and my team leader could be picking his butt on the sideline for all I care. It's my job to dedicate myself to making the team no matter what ANYBODY else does and if I'm sitting back thinking that if my 15-year vet QB doesn't have to be there then I don't either, I won't be around long. What Favre does should not influence Blackmon in the least and I'm sure it doesn't. Also, there will be 10 OTA's and all of training camp for Martin to catch Favre's bullets. How 'bout we let him learn the system before we start breaking his fingers?

What a leader's actions says to a team as a whole, and not just rookies, is not like an on-off switch. Its not either good or bad. Its a subtle attitude, an impression. If you try to look at it as telling a rookie he doesn't have to prepare, you are missing the point. It is much more subtle than that. It can also have an impact even on veterans, and probably not one they will express publically, or maybe even be conscious of. They will recite the party line, even if in the back of their minds they start questioning whether Favre really wants to be part of the team or not. Does he really have the comittment he once had? After all, five years ago these same players probably couldn't imagine Favre skipping anything in the off-season. This may tell them that Favre is not the Favre of seasons past.

Leadership is a funny thing. Followers will follow a strong leader through anything, unquestioningly, so long as their confidence is not shaken and they have no doubts. Let a single doubt come in and allegiance begins to waiver, hesitation arises, and performance can decline in a crucial situation. I'm not referring to only sports teams, but group dynamics in general. Could that happen with the Packers and Favre? Of course it could. Will it? No one really knows until it does happen.

I guess in summary, I see much of what is happening as a weakening (NOT disappearance) of Favre's leadership position on the team. Maybe that is a good thing, because he won't be around that much longer, regardless. When he is not there, and most of the team is, he is not the leader of the team in that camp, on that day, at that time. The group, the lockerroom, will naturally look for other leaders. Rodgers, Tauscher and Kampman were ones the articles mentioned as stepping into leadership roles at the camp.

I find this all to be interesting more than disconcerting.

Am I suggesting Favre is not the leader of this team? ABSOLUTELY NOT. However, the power of his leadership may be declining, as it often does with aging leaders in a physically performing group, such as a sports team.

[Scott Campbell]

Brett missing?

No biggie. I think he's just chill'n.

[MJZiggy]

Patrock, do you think that this is, perhaps what M3 wants? Not necessarily to undermine Favre's leadership, but perhaps to transfer it over to Rodgers, who as Brett likes to say, is one injury away from being the starter? NOT that I want Brett Favre to have an injury, but the older he gets, the more of a possibility it becomes. Doesn't Rodgers have to establish himself as well. This idea actually reinforces to me that this could have been M3's idea as stated, because with Favre in the room, Rodgers will not be seen as a leader IMO. Favre is just too strong a personality. And AR really needs to be seen by this team as a leader (perhaps not THE leader, but A leader). It sounds like we're discussing psychology far more this morning than football.

[Rastak]

Patrock, do you think that this is, perhaps what M3 wants? Not necessarily to undermine Favre's leadership, but perhaps to transfer it over to Rodgers, who as Brett likes to say, is one injury away from being the starter? NOT that I want Brett Favre to have an injury, but the older he gets, the more of a possibility it becomes. Doesn't Rodgers have to establish himself as well. This idea actually reinforces to me that this could have been M3's idea as stated, because with Favre in the room, Rodgers will not be seen as a leader IMO. Favre is just too strong a personality. And AR really needs to be seen by this team as a leader (perhaps not THE leader, but A leader). It sounds like we're discussing psychology far more this morning than football.

Wow, that's an interesting theory. It's possible I guess.

[GBRulz]

[Scott Campbell]

Ok, where did you get that? How old is the pic?