Wahle Morgan cut by the Panthers

[twoseven]

I'm really not in a huge hurry to bring in a veteran OG. If anything, I want to keep the competition high with the young guys, bringing in more guys and letting the cream rise to the top. The position is OK, not good, not great, but OK enough to let it sort of naturally resolve itself by always bringing in the most and best young talent you can find.

I'm for shoreing up leaks, not praying for the rain to stop falling.

[RashanGary]

Our guards are undoubtedly our weakest link when you look at our team. Hopefully something more than just crossing our fingers and hoping they get better is on the dockett this offseason.

That's where I disagree with the desperation of many fans. Counting on the young players you brought in and the ones you continue to bring in to get better and be better is not asking the great pumpkin for a miracle. It's acctually the way most teams improve and take that next step.

So do I want to sit and cross my fingers hoping Robert Ferguson takes that next step in his 7th year? No, that would be pretty foolish IMO. Counting on guys who are entering their third years at the OG position isn't exactly praying for the improbable. It's a pretty regular occurance for players to get better early in their careers, esspecially with continuity.

[pbmax]

We pass blocked better than the Pro Bowl guards, but the Giants weren't running the same blitz package that we saw.

Still after the Super Bowl, esp. Mankin having his lunch handed to him by Tuck, I thought our guards had really stepped up in the pass protection department at least in comparison to that game.

But I think we need to give SOME credence to their entire body of work, if for no other reason than the Giants were working on a slow track in Green Bay and had a fast track in Glendale.

And run blocking is a whole 'nother story.

But you have seen our guards play the last two years, that should be more than enough to spark an interest in what Wahle might have left in the tank.

I don't know if you watched the Giant and Patriot games, but our guards held up better than their probowl guards.

[RashanGary]

What goes unmentioned in all of these conversations is how uncommon it is for UFA's to really pan out and how often they blow up in your face. Everyone wants to make a change for the sake of change but the reality is you end up cutting them two years later a lot of the time and then you lose one of your own good ones because of it. Sherman was the master of plugging holes, just like twoseven above. He wasn't the master of calculating risk. That is the big factor nobody ever mentions and the big reason people are so suprised when a team like the Packers kicks ass after not bringing in UFA's and a team like the 49ers sucks ass after bringing in a bunch.

[RashanGary]

No, no, right. Nobody is saying bring in a guy for a lot of money who's going to get injured. They are all saying to bring in guys that who are really good and have no injury problems. Sorry, but that's not how it works.

Here's how it works. 5 teams are deseprate for every position. Every year about three good ones are on the market and the highest bidder wins. Prices get driven up, often times setting up a situation where even if the player plays well, he's indirectly hurting the team by drawing a huge salary and preventing the team from ever takign that next step.

Can you find a gem like Pickett or Woodson? Yeah, but Thompson is very smart with UFA. He takes it when it's there and lets it go when it is not. Everyone freaks out and throws their hands in the air, but there is a reason Thompson keeps making good decisions and everythign works out in hidsight and that reason isn't luck. It's calculating risk and evaluating talent.

Hey, if something is there, I'm all for it. If not, go with what we have and keep raising the competition. Don't use camp competition and improvement from within because you have yoru head in the sand, do it because it works better than UFA much of the time and you're not stupid or desperate.

[twoseven]

Yeah JH, you're right, nobody ever says UFA don't always pan out.

What a stupid thing it would be to bring in a veteran guard and let Spitz or Colledge actually earn the right to start by beating the veteran out (if that's even possible), versus getting to start by default because they're the only guards we have.

Is some fau big fat money deal what has you all tense? I can assure you we do not have to spend that much money to upgrade the guards. Nobody's talking about Faneca.

BTW, if a vet FA guard (or two) were to come in and our running game and pass protection were significantly improved, what would you be saying then?

[twoseven]

Can you find a gem like Pickett or Woodson? Yeah, but Thompson is very smart with UFA. He takes it when it's there and lets it go when it is not. Everyone freaks out and throws their hands in the air, but there is a reason Thompson keeps making good decisions and everythign works out in hidsight and that reason isn't luck. It's calculating risk and evaluating talent.

You can stop referring to TT like he's been here since the Reagan years weaving his magic. He's only been here for a wink and a nod and hasn't had the money, the motivation, or the roster to act any differently than what he's done. He's gotten by with less because he's had to.

TT has been our GM for a total of three years, not fifteen. None of which were GM'd with 25 mil in cap space for a 13-3 team that was 3 points from the SB, all while being fairly secure at almost every position. Meanwhile, there's a pretty deep crop of FAs out there, not all of them expensive, something you could NOT say about 05'-07'. Will he stand pat, maybe. Does he have to, no. Is he going to screw us by signing a guy, what do you think?

By the way, all any of us in the most recent posts have suggested is our guard play needs to get better. Keep that in mind before you repsond with a post cursing us for wanting to mortagage the Packer's future by draining the cap on FAs that will undoubtedly break their legs in September after they have broken our bank in March.

[Bretsky]

Whale is far superior to any OG on our roster, .

[Patler]

If you really want to judge the totality of the Packers' play at guard, the glaring characteristic is inconsistency. They have all had good and bad performances, with Colledge swinging from decent to awful, and the others less extreme.

However, by and large, pass protection was decent all year; even when there was no run game and everyone knew the Packers would pass.

Running? Still cant get the yard or two on the ground when needed, BUT in the last nine regular season games (not counting playoffs) they gained 1100 yards on the ground. Somebody was doing something right at least some of the time.

I agree wholeheartedly that the guards need to become much, much more consistent than they have been. Maybe they never will, but I am less concerned than I was last year.

[b bulldog]

DC only seems to play well when he is in MM's dog house. As far as Wahle goes, there was a bit of bad blood between the org and Wahle. Wahle always thought that Marco was the chosen one and that the organization didn't really think that highly of Wahle. I think he may have been a tad jealous that Marco was a fan favorite and he may have just voiced this negative feeling he had when he left.

[Bretsky]

Colledge had lapses but I didn't think he was horrible. Sometimes I think the memory of the year after our interior line broke up and the year Spitz and Colledge were rookies distorts our view. Everything that goes wrong is looked at as if it's about to fall apart.

I'm really not in a huge hurry to bring in a veteran OG. If anything, I want to keep the competition high with the young guys, bringing in more guys and letting the cream rise to the top. The position is OK, not good, not great, but OK enough to let it sort of naturally resolve itself by always bringing in the most and best young talent you can find.

Yes, he was horrible.

he was benched after some particulaly bad play. He is OK at pass pro, but he is weak and doesn't have any shove. Member the opening play on Turkey Day. Shaun Rogers threw him into Favre, causing that opening fumble.

I think these guys will improve, but ALL of 'em got benched at one time or the other during the season.

They all sucked against the Giants (but were actually better than NE at pass pro) How about Spitz's "flying wedge phantom block" on that screen to Jackson.

Completely agree; overall College had a poor year and we need better interior OL play. Wells was alright but he'd be much better with competent OG's. Against the NY Giants MM resorted to keeping in extra blockers to protect the QB. We need both OG's to improve.

I would not expect TT to make a run at Wahle though via free agency

[Patler]

The exasperating thing about Colledge, and I saw this mentioned on one of the "Packer" shows toward the end of the season, time and time again on the long runs that Grant had, it was Colledge who made the key block. I think that is why the coaches have not given up on him. He has his moments when he looks like what they thought he could be.

But man, some times he looks like he doesn't even care. I'm not suggesting that he doesn't care, but he gets beat so badly that he doesn't look like he even tried.

If he doesn't make it, he sure can't complain about not having an opportunity.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd like competition for Colledge, but I'm not ready to write him off yet. His athletic ability is good, but he lacks ideal strength. With hard work, he can get that. I think it's affected his confidence. After watching Wahle, Rivera, Wells, Flanagan, Winters, etc. do little or nothing their first few years in the league, I think one needs to have some patience with these young guys. They don't all come into the league and star right away. However, it would be nice to have a fallback plan.

[KYPack]

The exasperating thing about Colledge, and I saw this mentioned on one of the "Packer" shows toward the end of the season, time and time again on the long runs that Grant had, it was Colledge who made the key block. I think that is why the coaches have not given up on him. He has his moments when he looks like what they thought he could be.

But man, some times he looks like he doesn't even care. I'm not suggesting that he doesn't care, but he gets beat so badly that he doesn't look like he even tried.

If he doesn't make it, he sure can't complain about not having an opportunity.

I know.

He's got skills, espec pass pro and in space. Drive blocking? pulls? the guy can be a total tanglefoot. He isn't NFL strong yet. The big bull rushers just blow him off the line and he needs help. He is also the master of the whiff block. I've never seen a guy totally miss and not even touch his opponent as much as DC.

Went to the last reg season game against the Lions. In garbage time, they put Babre at LG and Colledge at LT. Colledge is a natural T. Light on his feet and quick. He sets up fast and is very comfortable in pass pro. On runs, he can handle the smaller DE's quite well.

I like Barbre at LG. He's got long arms and appears to have more natural sterngth than Colledge. He's still a kid and can be a clumsy bugger at times. He can handle the bull rush (Shaun Rogers did not intimidate him) He's a rook, he fell right on his face in pass pro once.

I'm a hopin' our answers at G come from within. I know some of you guys remember what a klutz Wahle was in his early years.

An FA guard to push/teach the young guys? I think TT believes in coaching the kids up and gettin' em reps.

That may work with this bunch but it sure didn't help Klemm & Will Whitticker.

[]{ilr]3]

I dont think we should break the bank to bring him in. He got that cash he wanted. Maybe now he is ready for that Championship ring and GB looks like the ticket

Maybe if they bring back Whale we can get something that resembles a screen pass again!