Wahle Morgan cut by the Panthers

[Patler]

Rivera didn't even play from scrimmage until his 3rd year. Wahle was in and out his 2nd and 3rd years, not unlike Colledge this year. Of course some of that was the failed attempt to make Wahle a left tackle. Neither were really very good until their 4th and 5th seasons,

I remember an article about the Packer O-line after Rivera's first year as a starter. The conclusion was basically that he would have to be replaced, because his pass protection was so bad, and the most important thing was to keep Favre alive.

[pbmax]

Wahle couldn't find a position either. He was at Tackle at first and looked horrid. Rivera and Andruzzi needed three years and a stop in NFL E if I recall correctly. Flanagan needed to nearly lose his leg before he was ready. So Colledge may not be done yet.

But Harv is right, there has to be a strong backup plan. And knowing T2, Bretsky and KYPack are right, it will be a youngster. Unless Wahle is ultra-cheap.

But I am not worried about Whitticker or Klemm as examples. Klemm was a vet that had injuries and his experience was at tackle. He did not make a smooth transition to guard for Sherman. Whitticker had a big downside as he had all the physical tools, but couldn't even get it together in college.

The problem, as with any build by the draft system, is time. The answer could be on the roster but won't be ready for 2 more years.

The exasperating thing about Colledge, and I saw this mentioned on one of the "Packer" shows toward the end of the season, time and time again on the long runs that Grant had, it was Colledge who made the key block. I think that is why the coaches have not given up on him. He has his moments when he looks like what they thought he could be.

But man, some times he looks like he doesn't even care. I'm not suggesting that he doesn't care, but he gets beat so badly that he doesn't look like he even tried.

If he doesn't make it, he sure can't complain about not having an opportunity.

I know.

He's got skills, espec pass pro and in space. Drive blocking? pulls? the guy can be a total tanglefoot. He isn't NFL strong yet. The big bull rushers just blow him off the line and he needs help.

Went to the last reg season game against the Lions. In garbage time, they put Babre at LG and Colledge at LT. Colledge is a natural T. Light on his feet and quick. He sets up fast and is very comfortable in pass pro. On runs, he can handle the smaller DE's quite well.

I like Barbre at LG. He's got long arms and appears to have more natural sterngth than Colledge. He's still a kid and can be a clumsy bugger at times. He can handle the bull rush (Shaun Rogers did not intimidate him) He's a rook, he fell right on his face in pass pro once.

I'm a hopin' our answers at G come from within. I know some of you guys remember what a klutz Wahle was in his early years.

An FA guard to push/teach the young guys? I think TT believes in coaching the kids up and gettin' em reps.

That may work with this bunch but it sure didn't help Klemm & Will Whitticker.

[Patler]

I really can't criticize Whitticker. He was a rookie when he played here, and he was a 7th round draft pick at that. Not only a 7th rounder, he was their 2nd pick in the 7th, after Kurt Campbell. He was the 246th pick in the draft. He was only 9 picks ahead of "Mr. Irrelevant" in that draft. Realistically, I think he out performed expectations, because not much was really expected of him. Certainly he was not drafted in the 7th round to be a starter as a rookie. Once MM arrived with his new blocking system, Whittacker was not suited.

I posted an article last fall about him with the Redskins. He looked to be at least their #3 guard this year and maybe even a starter until he got hurt.

[Patler]

Barbre was the 119th pick this year. We should have a lot higher expectations for him than we ever had for Whitticker at #246..

[KYPack]

Rivera didn't even play from scrimmage until his 3rd year. Wahle was in and out his 2nd and 3rd years, not unlike Colledge this year. Of course some of that was the failed attempt to make Wahle a left tackle. Neither were really very good until their 4th and 5th seasons,

I remember an article about the Packer O-line after Rivera's first year as a starter. The conclusion was basically that he would have to be replaced, because his pass protection was so bad, and the most important thing was to keep Favre alive.

You are right, sir.

Wahle was a terrible LT. My brother and I called him the "parking meter". It seems like he was rooted into position at tackle. Rivera was a LG at first. The worst starting guard I've ever seen for the Packers was Will Whitticker. Rivera is a close second, Marco would get bull rushed right on his ear.

The turn around for that line was Clifton being installed at LT, Wahle LG, and Rivera at RG. Those boys gelled and were a force for 4 -5 years.

[Deputy Nutz]

But you have seen our guards play the last two years, that should be more than enough to spark an interest in what Wahle might have left in the tank.

I don't know if you watched the Giant and Patriot games, but our guards held up better than their probowl guards. Our Oline played very well down the strech.

I'm not calling our guys all pros, but they're not as bad as they are made out here IMO. The running game was good. The pass pro was good. What else do you want?

People remember that one year and two years ago when Colledge and Spitz were rookies. They really weren't bad this past year. They were a big part of one of the best teams in the league. They're all young and improving players too.

I'm not against Wahle, but I'm not for it just because our current guys are the worst in the NFL like some make it out to be. I don't think that's the case at all and I'd be willing to wager that even if we don't bring in anyone that we'll have a better interior line next year.

At two points this year Colledge was benched in favor of Junius "doodle bug" Coston. That should tell you all you need to know about the 2007 season for Daryn Colledge.

I am one that still thinks there is still a lot of upside to Colledge, more so at left tackle than at left guard, but he shows these glimpses of ability, but his consistency and his lack of strength at the point is still a concern and it might put him on the bench for an indefinite amount of time until he can be either groomed as a left tackle where he can get away with a little bit more finesse then having to generate horse power from his legs on up. Colledge is not a strongman contestant like Mike Wahle for instance, he is around 300 pounds and 6-4. that is skinny in terms of offensive linemen now a days. Colledge can return to guard if he bulks up and improves his concentration and footwork than he might actually become an above average guard.

[Patler]

Wahle was a terrible LT. My brother and I called him the "parking meter". It seems like he was rooted into position at tackle. Rivera was a LG at first. The worst starting guard I've ever seen for the Packers was Will Whitticker. Rivera is a close second, Marco would get bull rushed right on his ear.

The turn around for that line was Clifton being installed at LT, Wahle LG, and Rivera at RG. Those boys gelled and were a force for 4 -5 years.

Rivera moved to RG in 1999 when Timmerman left in free agency. Wahle started some that year at LG, along with McKenzie. Verba was LT. Wolf always thought Wahle should be a left tackle, and in 2000 they tried to reverse Verba and Wahle. Wahle flopped at LT and was replaced by Clifton after a few games. Verba stayed at guard and Wahle went to the bench. Tauscher had already replaced Dotson due to a season ending injury. In 2001 Wahle went back to LG when Verba left.

Too bad it couldn't have stayed together a little longer than it did, although Rivera was pretty much done for already when he left anyway.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Wow, some of you are overly critical.

1. ( Wahle) It is possible to have too good of a contract. Being overpaid will get you cut. If happeneed to Jerry Rice it can happen to Mike Wahle. It happened with the Packers and now with the Panthers. The Panthers got 3 seasons out of him. Now he's an old player without a team. He'll sign with a lesser rebuilding team like the 49'ers.

2. (Colledge) He is a Tackle. He is playing Guard to gain experience. After 2 seasons he is ahead of where Wahle, Andruzzi, and Rivera were in their careers. The weakness he has that is most exploited is blocking against stunts.

His weight room records in college were in leg strength. He is better in space than heads up. Barbre is raw but better suited to Guard. Long term I forsee College taking over for Clifton and Barbre at Guard.

One last thing. Colledge is a good attitude guy. It may be that he was playing through an injury last season. I'm not worried about his work ethic.

[run pMc]

I think they pass on Wahle. I doubt TT cares whether it looks like he's admitting a mistake (which he isn't), but I do think he's more interested in seeing what the young guys look like after another offseason. I also think he'll draft one more player to push the current group...they have to find 3 competent, consistent players between Moll, DC, Spitz, Coston, Palmer, and Barbre.

I agree with Patler that consistency has been the killer for the OL...and DC especially.

Wahle will go someplace like Tampa or Oakland. I got the impression he didn't enjoy his time here, so why would he come back? Even if GB wanted him in for a workout and a chat, I'm guessing there are about 4-5 other teams who would be higher on Wahle's list.

[The Leaper]

Bringing him back doesn't look like a mistake, it proves his point. No different than getting a player to renogiate a contract.

I agree with Tyrone here.

Wahle was due a ridiculously high roster bonus, and he was the one who basically decided to not bother giving Green Bay a real shot at him and made a beeline for Carolina.

The fact Wahle doesn't have a job right now proves Thompson's point.

However, I agree that Thompson isn't likely to look at Wahle...not because of the past history, but because of his age and waning skills.

[KYPack]

Well, I think it's pretty obvious we won't pursue Wahle for all of the above reasons.

When I started this thread, I thought there would be some comment on Morgan, but I guess it's the unspoken consensus that Dan is all hit out and we don't need an aging MLB anyway.

[cheesner]

There was significant improvement for the OL this year over last year. I would not be surprised to see the same jump next year. That would put our line at 'above average' as they were below to average this year.

Our young guys are only going to get better. Wahle is only going to get worse at this point.

[Merlin]

Thompson never even tried to keep either Wahle or Rivera. He never even attempted to negotiate. He could have kept one or the other but more then likely the one that he could have kept would have been Rivera and he was definitely towards the end of his career. he maybe had one more good season in him had he stayed in Green Bay. Wahle was due the pay day on a back loaded contract and he found a team willing to pay him a lot of money to come play for them. More money then a guard is worth IMO.

Thompson thought he knew better and here we sit looking at going into Thompson's 4th season with this guard issue not settled. How come when Wahle and/or Rivera went down due to injury we had people that stepped in and did the job and now we are struggling to find two that can start and play consistently? this will mark the 3rd season for Colledge, Spitz and Coston (I think). Is this the "hump" year?

Wahle has an injury history and was cut by Carolina for the same reason Thompson let him go, too much cap space. To bring in a veteran of his cailber who has a few years left in the tank to fight for a starting position on an OL with inconsistent guard play is not a bad move. The "youth" movement can work only so far and after 3 seasons of merry go round at guard and little development of replacement tackles for Tauscher and Clifton, our OL is not in great shape for the future.

The argument for youth is all fine and good but so is the argument for veteran leadership and player development. Our OL is in disarray. Clifton and Tauscher were two of the best in the game, they are still good but both have been beaten up over the years in the NFL and are starting to slip a little. Wells has been a solid center and Spitz has proven he can take over there when needed. Outside of the Center position, we are in trouble unless there is some development and competition at the other positions. I suspect Clifton and Tauscher will only play a few more years at the most. Wahle probably a few more as well. There is something to be said for having a solid OL and solid backup OL. We have not had that in three seasons now and it's time for Teddy to do his job. Especially if Rodgers is our QB. One or two hits and he will be out for the season.

[KYPack]

Merlin

That should be 14-4 in yer sig.

We lost that last one.

[The Leaper]

Thompson never even tried to keep either Wahle or Rivera. He never even attempted to negotiate. He could have kept one or the other but more then likely the one that he could have kept would have been Rivera and he was definitely towards the end of his career.

How can you say he never tried...when Rivera got a ridiculous deal that would have been foolish to even try to match and Wahle wanted out of town? The only way Thompson could've tried to keep either guy was to foolishly overspend...which wasn't even possible considering the cap situation Thompson inherited.

I'm fine with the questions on how Thompson has filled those vacancies to this point. The inconsistency on the interior OL is a major weakness of this team right now. However, any questioning regarding how and why those two guys left is pointless...we know why they left and that Thompson never really had a chance to keep either one even had he wanted to.

Claiming he could've kept one or the other is just flat out incorrect...and to think Rivera was the guy we should've kept is just flat out dumb. The guy was used up...we knew it. He was worth barely more than a minimum deal as a 32 year old guard with a lot of wear and tear. He got a $20M deal with a $9M signing bonus...which he offered to give back to Jerry Jones because Rivera never really did anything on the field for Dallas.