Now boarding.... the A Car

[chain_gang]

How can being demoted to the #3 CB be part of this guys break-out year?

Being demoted would officially signal that this is NOT his break-out year.

Unless there is an injury in the secondary, Carroll wont be starting this year. His role is the Nickel back. Hard to break out when you're in a semi-reserve role.

This I would have to disagree with. Being a nickel back, you'll see the field a lot. So many teams use the 3 WR set, that your base package is basically the nickel.

I think regardless, though, that Carroll will end up passing up Harris on the depth chart. Harris may have been our number 1 CB last year, but that was by default. He had the experience. His abilities are limited, they always have been, but they are going to become more apparent with age. He is not a shutdown corner, never has been, never will be. He's average, not bad, but not that great. The reason why he wasn't thrown at so much was because teams never needed to pass because we always seemed to be playing catch up. No doubt they'll pick on Carroll once in a while, mainly because of the rookie year he had. Carroll gave up no more big plays than Harris did last year, and while he may have had more penalties(not by much,Harris always seems to get a hands to the face call), most of them would've been overlooked if not for his rookie year. I'm not trying to completely discredit what harris has done, but he won't get better, Carroll can.

He's in year 3 and now is going to be in the same defense for the second consecutive year. He showed he is coachable by being able to bounce back last year. I expect more of the same this year. Sometimes you need to take that step backwards in order to take a big leap forward.

[MadtownPacker]

How can being demoted to the #3 CB be part of this guys break-out year?

Being demoted would officially signal that this is NOT his break-out year.

Unless there is an injury in the secondary, Carroll wont be starting this year. His role is the Nickel back. Hard to break out when you're in a semi-reserve role.

Maybe he was demoted but that was by default with the Woodson signing. He sure didnt lose the job.

For those that play FF, how many times have you seen a guy flip the script and play all pro? It can and will happen with Carroll.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Let's look at who, as a starter, Carroll would have to potentially go up against in the NFC North. This is provided that Carroll steps into Woodson's spot if Woodson gets injured. Carroll is 5'10", had 4.26 speed and 38" vertical jump when he was drafted. Those numbers have decreased over the years. I don't know what the speeds are for any of these players and I'm basing my assessment on the height differential. I don't believe the vertical jump is a great benefit in coverage. If he becomes the starter, he will get picked on because of his size. 4-6 inches and a Muhammad-sized wingspan looms large over Carroll.

Chicago Bears
Muhammad 6'2"
Gage 6'4"

Lions
Roy Williams 6'2"
Mike Wiliams 6'4"
Scottie Vines 6'2"
Charles Rodgers 6'3"

Vikings
K. Robinson 6'1"
M. Robinson 6'3"
T. Williamson 6'1"

[bbbffl66]

Carroll will be a very good-not great-nickel for us. I see next year as his big year.

[MadtownPacker]

Let's look at who, as a starter, Carroll would have to potentially go up against in the NFC North. This is provided that Carroll steps into Woodson's spot if Woodson gets injured. Carroll is 5'10", had 4.26 speed and 38" vertical jump when he was drafted. Those numbers have decreased over the years.

HAHAHAHA, "decreased over the years"? You do KNOW he is younger then some of this years draft picks right? He aint even close to hitting his prime.

[MadtownPacker]

Carroll will be a very good-not great-nickel for us. I see next year as his big year.

Welcome to PR.

Now I have to disagree with you. He will be a GREAT nickel and a very good starter just like was at the end of last season.

[chain_gang]

Yes the size can be a mismatch, but how many great CB's have been over 6 foot tall. I believe Ronde Barber is only 5'10, DeAngelo Hall is only 5'10, Ty Law is 5'11, the list can go on and on. Darrell Green was a good example too.


Height is a slight issue, but he can overcome that in the NFC north pretty easily, because there's not a superstar receiver in that group. There aren't many great wideouts that are over 6'2 anyways. Most of them are between, 5'11 and 6'2. Owens, Moss, and a few others are exceptions.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Ahmad Carroll is the 2nd coming of Terrell Buckley. Same size. Same speed. Same weight. Same skills. Same mouth. Buckley was never more than an average CB in the league. I just don't get how everyone is so high on Carroll after seeing this whole situation before with Buckley. Carroll couldn't wrench the starting CB position from Joey Thomas in his rookie year; instead, we're talking about him stepping up into a position in the secondary this year due to injury and suggesting he's great in his 3rd year in the league?

As a Packer fan, I hope I'm wrong and I hope he shows the brilliance that Sherman saw in him when he drafted him.

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

Yes the size can be a mismatch, but how many great CB's have been over 6 foot tall. I believe Ronde Barber is only 5'10, DeAngelo Hall is only 5'10, Ty Law is 5'11, the list can go on and on. Darrell Green was a good example too.


Height is a slight issue, but he can overcome that in the NFC north pretty easily, because there's not a superstar receiver in that group. There aren't many great wideouts that are over 6'2 anyways. Most of them are between, 5'11 and 6'2. Owens, Moss, and a few others are exceptions.

Yes, but Carroll is far from a superstar himself. He's not even notched as a starter....

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

Let's look at who, as a starter, Carroll would have to potentially go up against in the NFC North. This is provided that Carroll steps into Woodson's spot if Woodson gets injured. Carroll is 5'10", had 4.26 speed and 38" vertical jump when he was drafted. Those numbers have decreased over the years.

HAHAHAHA, "decreased over the years"? You do KNOW he is younger then some of this years draft picks right? He aint even close to hitting his prime.

Well, if his prime means that he's a career nickel back, then fine. I'll take a page out of your book Mad. Barring injury, Carroll WILL NOT be a starter. There, I've made my point with cockiness and confidence.

I'll go out on an even longer limb: Mike Hawkins will beat out Carroll as the 3rd CB.

tyler

[Bossman641]

There seems to be this misconception that most teams have two 6'1" cornerbacks lining up for them. This is not the case at all. I was just looking through some depth charts on nfl.com because I was going to find the average height and weight of every starting cornerback in the league before I realized that the charts aren't updated and it would take forever so I gave up. I would guess that the average height is 5'10" or 5'11".

WR height has grown much faster than CB height. If you're a tall kid with good speed and can catch the ball, you play WR. Carroll's height is not nearly as big a deal as most make it out to be. His ball skills and recognition are a bigger problem than his size but I think these will improve as a result of being more comfortable on the field.

All aboard the Carroll fan club

[jack's smirking revenge]

There seems to be this misconception that most teams have two 6'1" cornerbacks lining up for them. This is not the case at all. I was just looking through some depth charts on nfl.com because I was going to find the average height and weight of every starting cornerback in the league before I realized that the charts aren't updated and it would take forever so I gave up. I would guess that the average height is 5'10" or 5'11".

WR height has grown much faster than CB height. If you're a tall kid with good speed and can catch the ball, you play WR. Carroll's height is not nearly as big a deal as most make it out to be. His ball skills and recognition are a bigger problem than his size but I think these will improve as a result of being more comfortable on the field.

All aboard the Carroll fan club

Height overrated, eh?
How tall is Randy Moss? 6'4"
How tall is Terrell Owens? 6'3"
How tall is Marvin Harrison? 6'0"
How tall is Anquan Boldin? 6'1"
How tall is Chad Johnson? 6'1"
How tall is Larry Fitzgerald? 6'3"

Most game-breaking WRs have a combination of size and speed. Game-breaking WRs are going up against your short CBs, which should hint that short CBs are problematic. Carroll has speed, but not the height. If he gets matched up against someone with both size and speed, it is an obvious mismatch.

I do have to admit though that 2005 doesn't really support my argument--the top two WRs were 5'10" (Steve Smith and Santana Moss).

Anyway, my bottom line is that Carroll has problems that, after three years, shouldn't be problems anymore. I don't see where cockiness and confidence can come into the picture with Carroll. He hasn't shown any consistency.

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

Well, if his prime means that he's a career nickel back, then fine. I'll take a page out of your book Mad. Barring injury, Carroll WILL NOT be a starter. There, I've made my point with cockiness and confidence.

I'll go out on an even longer limb: Mike Hawkins will beat out Carroll as the 3rd CB.

See.. now I feel like I can believe you mean it. That was really more like a sentence instead of a page though.

I like the idea of both starting next season because it means the D found it's duo for a while. I think Carroll knows it is his time to shine or else. TT seems likely to pull the trigger faster on a Sherm pick.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Well, if his prime means that he's a career nickel back, then fine. I'll take a page out of your book Mad. Barring injury, Carroll WILL NOT be a starter. There, I've made my point with cockiness and confidence.

I'll go out on an even longer limb: Mike Hawkins will beat out Carroll as the 3rd CB.

See.. now I feel like I can believe you mean it. That was really more like a sentence instead of a page though.

I like the idea of both starting next season because it means the D found it's duo for a while. I think Carroll knows it is his time to shine or else. TT seems likely to pull the trigger faster on a Sherm pick.

Look, if Hawkins and Carroll evolve into the tandem of the future for the Pack, then I will be as giddy as a crackwhore in candyland. As you said, Carroll HAS TO shine this year or else. He's draft tradebait next year if he falters this year.

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

He's draft tradebait next year if he falters this year.

100% agree.