OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[RashanGary]

Influence is power, and Favre thrived on it. You can see guys like woodbuck thrive on it too. He's living vicariously through Favre, pumping up Favre's influence by praising this thread.

Well, guess what, woodbuck. . . in the end, if people stick together (like Packer fans are doing here.) none of that power can take us down. This thread could be 20,000 posts long, 1000 pages long and it will certainly be testament to the influence (power) favre held/holds over Packer fans. But. . . . It cannot break us down unless we let it. We watch kids growing up without homes get married and have children in beautiful, secure homes through football. We get to know guys and share in their joy as they fulfill their dreams. Football matters to people on all kinds of levels, personal levels.

You coming here, parading Favre's power over us, it doesn't feel good, but we have the ability to feel it AND move on and enjoy our team together. And guess what, that's exactly what people are doing here, and because of it, it is you who is losing the power. It is Favre who is losing the influence/power.

He's done a lot of things that have turned a great, respected career into a tarnished legacy and in the case of his penis pictures, a laughing stock. Now he has the power to finish the job and die without ever fully sharing the experiences of his life with the people whom he experienced life with.

On a human level, this is fucking sad, woodbuck. This is guy white-knuckling life and leaving humiliation/devastation in his wake. In light of that wake, you need to wake the fuck up and get a grip, woodbuck. This is not glory. This is senseless strife. This is extending pain far longer than it needs to be extended. He needs to let go and just come back and celebrate the time he got to be with the Packers. Like all of life, there were great/horrible/good/bad and somewhat indifferent times. But the great/good are the parts we can hang onto, the horrible/bad we can learn from, then let go of. That is possible. That's what it's about.

[woodbuck27]

Some really nice posts on these last couple pages. Nice job md, Patler, everyone.

Woodbuck, not to be rude, I consider you a friend in life, but not a fellow Packer fan. The things Favre did when he left and his retirement games felt like a slap in the face to me, as a Packer fan. Anyone who was a Packer fan during that era and didn't feel that slap in the face, does not experience the Packers the way I do. And sometimes I get the feeling you want the Packers to fail, like you can't wait for an opportunity to jump down our throats, like every moment is an opportunity for revenge. Sometimes when things go wrong, I don't even want to open this site so I don't have to see what you and a few others are writing because it's going to be so fucking negative and disheartening. It's like there are Packer fans and then there is you (and a few others), who wants us to pay for this Favre thing.

md said it very well above, Favre not accepting the honors the Packers are offering him is yet another slap in the face as a Packer fan.

Responding to Patler, about the Packers possibly regretting offering Favre the things they did. . . . That may very well be. But it's like anything else. The people you tie yourself to have a very strong ability to hurt you. Favre was so closely tied to the Packers and was so influential with the fans, he had a very strong ability to hurt the Packers, and he used that ability in all of it's horror (or glory for you, woodbuck, since you consider that guy glorious.) And who is closer to Favre than the Packers were? His wife and childeren. Look at the humiliation he placed at their feet. The closer you get to that man, the more severe the burn will be, and none had it worse than his family.

packer_md strikes me as a very strong, regular, respectful, honorable person. I use his/her position as a very good example of how most of humanity is affected by Favre's ations. If Favre doesn't wake up soon with some humility, if he keeps dragging this on. He's going to further taint his reputation by having the appearance of not being able to let go, not being able to move on, not being a person most people respect. I hope he doesn't. He's lost the respect of a lot of people with the pictures he was sending of his penis, the creepy messages, the cheating on his wife, the tantrums he threw during the retirement-unretirement process, and so much more. For every slap Favre puts on the face of the Packers, there are millions of people watching, shaking their heads, and I think it's helping build the legacy of the Packers as a great, honorable organization. Everyone feels the urge to slap back, but not doing so, sometimes, taking the pain with dignity and courage, can sometimes build more respect than a slap back ever could. I know what legacy I'd rather be associated with, Woodbuck. The way you support Favre, honestly, makes me lose respect for you. What he did I cannot respect. The fact that you admire/honor that man disgusts me.

JH:

I celebrate Brett Favre the football player. I've always 'just' been there as a Packer fan. Sorry man but if you believe your positions on Brett Favre make you a better Green Bay Packer fan than me. So be it. Believe what you need to believe.

The sad TRUTH JH:

Your mistaken.

You've called me out... thus I'm placed in a position where my integrity demands a response to you JH.

I'm a Packer fan that celebrated Brett Favre the football player I enjoyed. Not always enjoying and at times being repaginated by Brett Favre the human being. Until... I got my head back to earth, Realizing that as a human being Brett Favre's struggles are no different than most human beings. We all suffer our struggles and handle them or not in different ways JH. I didn't always agree with the manner in which Brett Favre conducted his private life but as the person I am. I refuse to judge Brett Favre. See JH:

I try my damnest not to judge any person. I constantly struggle with that conviction. I try to like all people including members here. Just as members here judge and dislike me. I try to ignore that in terms of 'again'... who I feel I must be. See JH....I have to live with me.

I've put it on the record the pain I felt about the things Brett Favre did away from the football field that have tarnished his reputation. I was 'just sick' for Brett Favre wife (Deanna) and his children and close and extended family over the Jenn Sterger Vs Brett Favre 'sexting scandal'. I've never looked at any leud Pic's (supposedly of Brett Favre's penis) as I'm stronger than to get into such smut. Instead... I confided with a member of Packerrats as to the authenticity of those cell phone pic's. After such I was convinced by this member. That 'in fact' he believed the pic's were of Brett Favre.

That revelation reaqlly bothered ...hurt me JH. That was a lot for me to deal with JH.

That correspondence with this member left me literally 'just sick' with Brett Favre. It took some time for that personal disappointment ... that pain to go away. Somehow that pain left me JH.

So you sit at your keyboard and critique me (judge me) and positions I'm as free as you are RE: anything Brett Favre.... to take. You slam me as a lesser Green Bay Packer fan that you are. If that is your need. Fill your boots. The TRUTH is simply this. More or less than you. I am a solid Green Bay Packer fan. For you to attack me as anything else is.... well...... it makes me feel sad for you.

I'll defend my position as a Green Bay Packer fan as your completely 'off base' in your allegations mister. I'll rebut such utter nonsense on your part simply thus:

It's your claim that I'm less of a Packer fan that you or anyone else here that takes the negative 'down on Brett Favre'. Whatever fills your boots and that JH; but your sadly to me wrong.

I'm a Green bay Packer fan that wants the team I've supported for over five decades to fail!? That's your claim. Well your claim is completely 'out to lunch'. Your claim is pure and utter nonsense !

Your imagination is sadly deluded man. In those five decades 'plus' that I've been a Green Bay Packer fan. I loyally supported the Green Bay Packers through all that was sometimes 'just awful' or the 1970's- 80's.

Brett Favre's arrival gave to me as a Packer fan 'new and real hope'. Hope that I maintained throughout Favre's time as the Packer NO. 1 QB. I mean he gave me sincere and undeluded hope even in his final game as a Green bay Packer.

Do you read all that I write? I write a lot so I expect not. I'm clearly on record as supporting the decision to see the Green Bay Packers allow Aaron Rodgers his shot after the 2007 season.

So JH here it is** .

I'll inform 'YOU JH'; and I'll extend this to any member of this board that feels such need as your expressing. That I'm a lesser Green Bay Packer fan. Your evidence of that... my position on Brett Favre and your 'silly nonsense that I hope the Packers lose and that 'for whatever you might drum up' sick reason.

By the way that accusation against me really SUCKS JH... but here we are.

Any attempt to try to ride me into the dirt as a 'lesser' Green Bay Packer fan of less repute than 'YOU' or anyone else on this board because I refuse to condemn all I saw in Brett Favre.

Your not 'only' out to lunch man. Your obsessed with your needs to hate Brett Favre. To characterize your feeling as anything less that that negative emotion, is to delude yourself. Your hatred is so very slanted that you extend that hatred to me. A five decade plus Green Bay Packer fan. For that you as the man you are 'only' deserve one clear and succinct rebuttal and not all I've written to this point in this post:

JH....FUCK OFF 'with the creepy nonsense'. Please.

You know what all such does here? Your well aware of the ways of some of our membership. I'm not going to add fuel for their sick amusement. Those posters here that love to see the shit your post to me might drum up... if I allow that to happen.

Sorry ... and 'you' can put your popcorn away as that's NOT going to happen as the butter is getting... going to get real thick/cold.

I celebrate this day and this post as a Green Bay Packer fan.

As decent and proud to be such as 'any of the rest of you'.

GO PACK GO!

[Pugger]

Maybe PaCkFan_n_MD is right, we shouldn't retire his number................or anyone else's in the future. I thought I heard/read somewhere that the league frowns on that now. Enshrining him in the Packer HOF should suffice and we wouldn't find the need to rehash this again for the umpteenth time.

[woodbuck27]

Honestly he shouldn't even have his number retired if more years pass. Yeah I said it, what.

If after five years he is still not over what happened then he doesn't deserve to be acknowledged. It is an honor to have your number retired and he should feel grateful. The fact that he doesn't want it to happen until he is good and well ready to be honored is kind of pathetic if you ask me. If I was the packers I would ask him if we can did it this year and if he says no then don't ask again. Him still acting like a baby shows he didn't learn anything from what happened. Time to get off the high horse already jeez.

I do not mean this post to be taken in any other way but as a concern from me for you to learn 'the TRUTH' PaCkFan_n_MD. I'm not here to argue or demonstrate any manner of animosity over this; what should now be 'a simple matter' of acceptance.

Brett Favre has been over it for a long time Packer fan. Sometimes it can be far more complicated than meets the eye. Favre has bent over backwards trying his level best to help you the Packer fan/ NFL fan see it all as it was/is.

Maybe it might take a little more effort on your part? Just a question you might ask yourself. I'm not even suggesting that you go there. Such has to be a personal decision, and one with complete 'open mindedness'.

As to getting over it and Brett Favre:

Favre was over it, and clearly stated as much, going back to the conclusion of the 2008 season. He has told us over and over again. That 'he's over it', if you read his many statements on this issue/matter. Maybe? Simply take your time or find the time to read it all Packer fan.

Your puter has the same capabilities as mine does. All that will be left is some open mindedness on your part. That's a certain challenge in terms of this Brett Favre thing and some Packer fans and I accept that as we're all somehow different.

Brett Favre and getting over it:

Favre has busted his ass trying to inform us of all of it and the fact that he is...over it. Too many Packer fans 'simply' choose to ignore or discount his TRUTH, as it doesn't fit their agendas and judgements. They have to be right and couldn't possibly be wrong.

Given all that Brett Favre has tried to do to set this right in terms of his position and the TRUTH. What has the other side said:

NOTHING.

You know why? They carry the shame of 'a wrongful pride' not Brett Favre.

This has little to nothing to do with any decision to move past Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers.

It has everything to do with how the Green Bay Packers Organization tried to force Brett Favre's hand... in terms of his will and rights to want to continue playing somewhere as an NFL QB. It has everything to do with how the Green Bay Packers attempted to coerce and control Brett Favre's life after active Green Bay Packer service. Trying too hard to keep Brett Favre retired. Trying over the top too hard to ensure that Brett Favre got the message it was time for him to retire.

What they did was 'simply out and out', just wrong. If anything like that was done to any of 'YOU'. I would hope that 'YOU' had the common-sense, the strength and courage to stand against it as Brett Favre and the NFL HO supporting his position.... did.

Do you know what's pissing off posters here now?

The TRUTH.

The TRUTH that I post. Too many here cannot ACCEPT THIS truth.

What we must try hard to do here. Is to simply agree to disagree without the public floggings that sometimes goes on at Packerrats. It's that sort of thing at that has driven so many decent members away. Not 'only' posters that have suffered the ridicule of 'a group of posters here'; but those posters that refuse to be any part of such 'mentality'. Those posters that don't have the will nor means to fight or stand up against the posters here that feel they have some special privalege.

This morning I learned that to be a 'real Packer fan'. I have to have a strong distaste for Brett Favre.

If that's the case then ...I'm NOT that sort of real Packer fan.

I'm simply a Green Bay Packer fan and have been for what?....55 years. NOT good enough for some here!

Whatever. I'm simply proud to write this:

GO PACKERS GO !

[woodbuck27]

I've often wondered how much they regret having announced it so soon after he retired the first time. I think it was probably done to "seal" the retirement, thinking the announcement of a date certain would nail the door shut on a possible reconsideration on his part. Of course, it didn't do that, and now it is an awkward commitment that will continually be asked about until it finally occurs.

An astute observation Patler.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

Maybe PaCkFan_n_MD is right, we shouldn't retire his number................or anyone else's in the future. I thought I heard/read somewhere that the league frowns on that now. Enshrining him in the Packer HOF should suffice and we wouldn't find the need to rehash this again for the umpteenth time.

Sorry but 'again', we're talking Brett Favre here:

Brett Favre's NO. 4 will 'in fact' be retired as his service, dedication and outstanding play as a 'GREAT' Green Bay Packer 'only' deserves 'special 'recognition.

SPECIAL recognition set apart from most other Packers; by 'the fact of his number being retired'.

[woodbuck27]

Some really nice posts on these last couple pages. Nice job md, Patler, everyone.

Woodbuck, not to be rude, I consider you a friend in life, but not a fellow Packer fan. The things Favre did when he left and his retirement games felt like a slap in the face to me, as a Packer fan. Anyone who was a Packer fan during that era and didn't feel that slap in the face, does not experience the Packers the way I do. And sometimes I get the feeling you want the Packers to fail, like you can't wait for an opportunity to jump down our throats, like every moment is an opportunity for revenge. Sometimes when things go wrong, I don't even want to open this site so I don't have to see what you and a few others are writing because it's going to be so fucking negative and disheartening. It's like there are Packer fans and then there is you (and a few others), who wants us to pay for this Favre thing.

md said it very well above, Favre not accepting the honors the Packers are offering him is yet another slap in the face as a Packer fan.

Responding to Patler, about the Packers possibly regretting offering Favre the things they did. . . . That may very well be. But it's like anything else. The people you tie yourself to have a very strong ability to hurt you. Favre was so closely tied to the Packers and was so influential with the fans, he had a very strong ability to hurt the Packers, and he used that ability in all of it's horror (or glory for you, woodbuck, since you consider that guy glorious.) And who is closer to Favre than the Packers were? His wife and childeren. Look at the humiliation he placed at their feet. The closer you get to that man, the more severe the burn will be, and none had it worse than his family.

packer_md strikes me as a very strong, regular, respectful, honorable person. I use his/her position as a very good example of how most of humanity is affected by Favre's ations. If Favre doesn't wake up soon with some humility, if he keeps dragging this on. He's going to further taint his reputation by having the appearance of not being able to let go, not being able to move on, not being a person most people respect. I hope he doesn't. He's lost the respect of a lot of people with the pictures he was sending of his penis, the creepy messages, the cheating on his wife, the tantrums he threw during the retirement-unretirement process, and so much more. For every slap Favre puts on the face of the Packers, there are millions of people watching, shaking their heads, and I think it's helping build the legacy of the Packers as a great, honorable organization. Everyone feels the urge to slap back, but not doing so, sometimes, taking the pain with dignity and courage, can sometimes build more respect than a slap back ever could. I know what legacy I'd rather be associated with, Woodbuck. The way you support Favre, honestly, makes me lose respect for you. What he did I cannot respect. The fact that you admire/honor that man disgusts me.

I just read this again and this whole post by you JH against what you wrote right here:

" md said it very well above, Favre not accepting the honors the Packers are offering him is yet another slap in the face as a Packer fan. " JH

JH which is it going to be man?

Do you imagine that Brett Favre would put his wife (and family/friends) through the possible pain of having to deal with the hatred that you JH and fans like you. Might display as the Green Bay Packers 'now' feel the need to get his number retired and him inducted into the Green Bay Packers HOF?

Get that done rather that having it left undone and Brett Favre becoming a first ballot NFL HOFer. All the embarrassment on the Green Bay Packers and that inevitability.

It's certainly time 'NOW' for 'Damage Control' on the part of the Green Bay Packers. When you get right down to the brass tacks of it all:

Right is simply right.

What you and so many cannot see is that none of this in on Brett Favre.

This entire mess and Brett Favre and Green Bay Packer is on the Green Bay Packers and just how badly they handled Brett Favre before they traded him just prior to the 2008 season to the New York Jets. When the NFL HO has to intervene. You damn well know something is 'stinking in the State of Denmark'.

Your Packer fanism is so extreme and like some other's here. That extremism as a die hard Packer fan, leaves your vision clouded; clouded because of your always extreme negative view and opinion of Brett Favre.

No one hates Favre better than you JH. I've observed you post that hatred over...and over...and over... time and time again. I've mostly ignored that and your stance 'there'; because you do offer other things here that I enjoy. You also can hate away as long as you can deal with owning it JH. I just wouldn't want to be like you and that hate.

Whatever fills your boots...rocks your boat man. I'm simply happy to say:

I'm glad or fortunate that I've chosen to take a higher road.

JH let me try to clarify this matter;

Clearly none of this desire on the part of the Green Bay Packers to get this ceremony for Brett Favre done... soon. Has any consideration 'on the surface' for Brett Favre. As a Packer fan you have to look at this deeper.

As I see it. This is much to do with 'damage control'. Damage control that I believe the Green Bay Packers are willing to address before it gets too worse. As Packer fan to Packer fan. My advice to you JH. Simply try to see it clearly as I do.

As I the simple Packer fan that I am (and all Brett Favre business aside) DO SEE IT !

Brett Favre has expressed 'again', over and over, his heartfelt love for the fans of Green Bay. His love for these fans remains, inspire of your hatred (disguised as disappointment...whatever). His love remains inspire of the hatred that more Packer fans, and certainly more here at Packerrats, than 'just you' JH; have demonstrated since Ted Thompson became the Packer GM.

I go back 8 years with posters here. The hatred I've read from posters here (and Brett Favre). Is simply put... 'shocking, too very alarming'. I've been disgusted with the hatred from some posters here. So often I sucked that up. Many former posters at Packerrats couldn't deal with that hatred, and simply disappeared.

Hatred does 'zero good'.

I've tolerated it being a witness to it all, by choice. The pain of that has been at times, almost anger provoking 'for me'. Somehow I've managed a certain strength and level of tolerance for posters here that clearly didn't deserve that. Somehow and to a remarkable extent for me. Knowing my potential to caste wrath or really get pissed off. I've at least decently managed to not allow such hatred and the accompanying rubbish to get under my skin.

I've been strong at Packerrats because I am

You choose to 'simply' go on hating JH.

I'll stay with who I am and that's got nothing to do with hating JH.

If you feel that hating Brett Favre makes you a better Green Bay Packer fan that me not hating him.

Well ... I'm here 'simply' shaking my head.

GO PACK GO !

[Patler]

Maybe PaCkFan_n_MD is right, we shouldn't retire his number................or anyone else's in the future. I thought I heard/read somewhere that the league frowns on that now. Enshrining him in the Packer HOF should suffice and we wouldn't find the need to rehash this again for the umpteenth time.

Sorry but 'again', we're talking Brett Favre here:

Brett Favre's NO. 4 will 'in fact' be retired as his service, dedication and outstanding play as a 'GREAT' Green Bay Packer 'only' deserves 'special 'recognition.

SPECIAL recognition set apart from most other Packers; by 'the fact of his number being retired'.

I've never been a big fan of the whole number retirement thing. To me, if done at all, it should be an extremely rare occurrence, reserved for individuals who show a commitment and dedication to the team that goes far beyond their athletic performance. It should be awarded to those who truly became Packers for life, and aided the organization beyond their performances on the field. I recognize that in today's "it's all about business" environment for pro sports it will be hard to develop that relationship, but so be it, in my opinion.

I went on record here as disagreeing with the retirement of #92.

Considering his venomous attack on the organization, his attempts to undermine the organization, his continued cold shoulder toward the organization and the exposure of the person he was while a player, I am no more interested in the retirement of #4 than I was #92.

[Pugger]

Sorry but 'again', we're talking Brett Favre here:

Brett Favre's NO. 4 will 'in fact' be retired as his service, dedication and outstanding play as a 'GREAT' Green Bay Packer 'only' deserves 'special 'recognition.

SPECIAL recognition set apart from most other Packers; by 'the fact of his number being retired'.

If the league frowns on retiring numbers and every time we discuss Favre a civil war breaks out I think it would be wise to shelve this entire number retirement issue and move on. I suspect nobody will ever wear #4 again if we don't officially retire it anyway.

[pbmax]

I've often wondered how much they regret having announced it so soon after he retired the first time. I think it was probably done to "seal" the retirement, thinking the announcement of a date certain would nail the door shut on a possible reconsideration on his part. Of course, it didn't do that, and now it is an awkward commitment that will continually be asked about until it finally occurs.

I will never understand their attempts to put the genie back in the bottle, though I am not certain if the jersey retirement was pre or post unretirement news. Even Thompson understood what might happen and kept a large (even for him) amount of cap space open in what had to be a backup plan for his unretirement.

It was very clear that after the March/May aborted comeback that they did not have a clear fall back plan. I wonder to what degree Thompson and McCarthy were served poorly by the Packer PR team and admin.

Just another remember that you should careful what you wish for because I used to wonder HOW the relationship between Marino and the Dolphins got so bad so quickly.

[pbmax]

I've often wondered how much they regret having announced it so soon after he retired the first time. I think it was probably done to "seal" the retirement, thinking the announcement of a date certain would nail the door shut on a possible reconsideration on his part. Of course, it didn't do that, and now it is an awkward commitment that will continually be asked about until it finally occurs.

I wonder if his willingness to blandly be welcoming to the prospect of the jersey retirement helps or hurts the process.

One the one hand it is clear he is leaving the door open. On the other hand it looks like he is talking to someone who has already hung up the phone AND it just gives everyone a chance to rehash the distance between the two parties.

Plus, when its time to actually start to discuss the event, he has one less reason to talk to Favre directly.

[Patler]

I will never understand their attempts to put the genie back in the bottle, though I am not certain if the jersey retirement was pre or post unretirement news. Even Thompson understood what might happen and kept a large (even for him) amount of cap space open in what had to be a backup plan for his unretirement.

It was very clear that after the March/May aborted comeback that they did not have a clear fall back plan. I wonder to what degree Thompson and McCarthy were served poorly by the Packer PR team and admin.

Just another remember that you should careful what you wish for because I used to wonder HOW the relationship between Marino and the Dolphins got so bad so quickly.

If I remember correctly, Bob Harlan actually mentioned an intention to retire #4 at about the the time White's ceremony was held. He said the hope was that it would be used for many years yet, but retired when Favre was done with it. He talked about the offense/defense representation from championship eras.

Then, it was brought up again as soon as Favre announced his retirement, and the date for it was announced very soon thereafter, maybe even at the press conference.

[Patler]

I wonder if his willingness to blandly be welcoming to the prospect of the jersey retirement helps or hurts the process.

One the one hand it is clear he is leaving the door open. On the other hand it looks like he is talking to someone who has already hung up the phone AND it just gives everyone a chance to rehash the distance between the two parties.

Plus, when its time to actually start to discuss the event, he has one less reason to talk to Favre directly.

Favre never sounds enthused about it. Kind of like, "Yes, eventually I will have that colonoscopy that I know I should have."

[Scott Campbell]

[Scott Campbell]