Wynn Cut, Harrell on Pup List

[HarveyWallbangers]

blah, blah, blah...

Finally, the assertion that "almost the whole forum agreed with it" is patently ludicrous. If that's the best you got.... <sheesh>

And you're still the guy who states his opinion that the front office screwed up after the fact, and didn't say anything at the time of the trade. It's easy now to say it would be nice to have Williams. You could even say the front office should have expected that Harrell would get hurt. That's fair. However, Harrell was just a piece, and several of the pieces look questionable for reasons that couldn't be assumed at the time (Jolly and his codeine, Muir taking a step back, KGB getting hurt so Jenkins needs to stay outside). Like I said, hindsight is 20/20. How about your response to the guy who said having Williams wouldn't help the pathetic run defense we've shown in the preseason? I tend to agree with him. I feel like guys like Williams and Jolly and Hunter will end up making up for the loss of Williams inside pass rush. (Of course, losing KGB wouldn't help that, so hopefully he gets healthy.) I'm more worried about the interior run defense, and Williams wouldn't have helped much there.

BTW, because the Williams trade was universally praised on this forum, I predicted that it would end up turning out to be a bad move.

[Merlin]

Although I understood the Williams trade, I had neither a for or against attitude. I thought for sure we would sign someone, draft someone, something to make up for the spot. Last year taught us that we must have depth on the defensive line. We traded one away, replaced him with no one, lost one to injury already and a few others are banged up. If the focus was on the defense as McCarthy stated that Ted stated, then the current state of our DL is confusing as hell to me.

[Zool]

I liked the Williams trade because the guy was going to get way too much money for an undersized tackle that gets pushed around in the running game.

[Partial]

Well, Brohm was a "steal" because he was graded more highly on the boards of "experts", but Brian Brohm is a player I never liked in college and was never impressed by. So far he's entirely lived down to my expectations, and not only that he has a low ceiling. If he turns out to be great, that's wonderful, but there's a reason that he got passed 55 times in the draft.

We could have used that pick in a number of better ways.

Have you gotten your job offer letter from the front office yet? If not, I would wait next to mailbox. There's a spot next to the dog with his tail in the air waiting for the afternoon sun.

My thoughts exactly

[Packnut]

Harrell

Injuries to players are unfortunate, especially when they are trying to make a first impression, like Harrell is. We haven't been able to see what he can do healthy for one year. His bicep injury was known about and they took a flyer on him anyway. The back injury lifting weights was just dumb luck. It doesn't mean he's a bust, though. If he sucks when back to health and with a little bit of experience under his belt, then he's a bust.

No, it was not "dumb Luck". By his own admission he went home in the off-season and ate like there was no tomorrow. He came back FAT AND OUT OF SHAPE. People have to stop making excuses for this guy. He has a very poor work ethic. He got the big pay-check and developed the Hunt syndrome.

Even if he comes back after 6 weeks, it will take another 2 or 3 to get in game shape. Couple that with the fact he has little game experience and year 2 is also a bust.

Teddy made the statement in regarding Wynn that you have to make yourself "available". Does'nt that also apply to Harrell? Difference is his neck is on the line with Harrell and he'll make all the excuses he can think of. Just a tad hypocritical.................

[HarveyWallbangers]

Re: Harrell

Teddy made the statement in regarding Wynn that you have to make yourself "available". Does'nt that also apply to Harrell? Difference is his neck is on the line with Harrell and he'll make all the excuses he can think of. Just a tad hypocritical.................

The difference is that Harrell has a ton more talent that Wynn AND GMs never cut a 1st round pick before year 2 even starts. That's any GM. I don't buy the other lame explanations.

[Packnut]

Re: Harrell

Teddy made the statement in regarding Wynn that you have to make yourself "available". Does'nt that also apply to Harrell? Difference is his neck is on the line with Harrell and he'll make all the excuses he can think of. Just a tad hypocritical.................

The difference is that Harrell has a ton more talent that Wynn AND GMs never cut a 1st round pick before year 2 even starts. That's any GM. I don't buy the other lame explanations.

Where is this talent you speak of? It sure has'nt been on display in GB. Hell, Wynn had talent in college too. Look, any really "MOTIVATED" athlete would have realized how disappointing he was as a 1st rd pick and would have worked his ass off during the off-season to come out on fire in year 2. What did Harrell do? He went home and ate everything his momma put in front of him. Yeah, that's motivation.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: Harrell

Teddy made the statement in regarding Wynn that you have to make yourself "available". Does'nt that also apply to Harrell? Difference is his neck is on the line with Harrell and he'll make all the excuses he can think of. Just a tad hypocritical.................

The difference is that Harrell has a ton more talent that Wynn AND GMs never cut a 1st round pick before year 2 even starts. That's any GM. I don't buy the other lame explanations.

Where is this talent you speak of? It sure has'nt been on display in GB. Hell, Wynn had talent in college too. Look, any really "MOTIVATED" athlete would have realized how disappointing he was as a 1st rd pick and would have worked his ass off during the off-season to come out on fire in year 2. What did Harrell do? He went home and ate everything his momma put in front of him. Yeah, that's motivation.

The scouts were all in agreement about his talent. You can deny that all you want, but it is the truth. And, the statement was in comparison to wynn. Not even a dispute.

JH is a young kid who is/was immature and didnt' realize the demands of pro ball. That is quite a difference between being unmotivated.

That is the past. Should we condemn him for that forever. I seem to recall a QB that was out drinking so much his rookie year that his coach wanted to cut him. A qb that fell asleep in meetings, didn't pay attention, and was generally considered to be a loser.

He got hurt lifting weights...doesn't that tell you something about his movitivation now. That is what matters...NOW!

[retailguy]

And you're still the guy who states his opinion that the front office screwed up after the fact, and didn't say anything at the time of the trade. It's easy now to say it would be nice to have Williams.

Just because I didn't post in the thread, doesn't mean that I didn't say anything about it. There was such a "love fest" going on, I wasn't in the mood to be a wet blanket. I'm sure there would have been someone lining up to "take a shot" had I opined. You can't have it both ways Harvey, you've gone out of your way to criticize EVERYTHING I've said lately. Others jump on certain posters whenever they say anything, or they cherry pick quotes to twist their meaning. If you do this, then don't wonder why you don't get a differing opinion. You don't WANT IT, except to criticize it. So then, later, saying "you kept quiet", is really dirty pool. No one, yourself included, likes to be attacked all the time. Except for Tank and we ran him off.

My ONLY gripe with the trade is that we were coming off a 13-3 season, with Harrell down and KGB hurt. $6.3m was an expensive insurance policy but prudent compared to where GB's cap was. While I value draft choices, and think Ted got fair value, I have never seen where the draft choice had the upside for 2008 that keeping Williams had. We're seeing the possibility of that situation right now.

I admit, there is a long-term component that I have purposefully ignored, but I think that 13-3 dictates that... to a certain extent anyhow.

You could even say the front office should have expected that Harrell would get hurt. That's fair.

I did. Then you told me 20/20 hindsight was easy. If it's "fair" then why did you criticize? (see response #1 above)

However, Harrell was just a piece, and several of the pieces look questionable for reasons that couldn't be assumed at the time (Jolly and his codeine, Muir taking a step back, KGB getting hurt so Jenkins needs to stay outside).

Jolly could not have been predicted, notice that I didn't mention that. Sometimes you just get bad breaks. However, KGB was already hurt, that was KNOWN. We as fans didn't know that surgery was necessary, but the line will always be grey as to what is "known" to the fans. He had a torn meniscus, that knee bothered him late last season too. Next, Muir was not a factor late last season, I guess you can "rely" on him stepping up, but there is risk there. Finally, if KGB was hurt, it seems that it was reasonable to assume that Jenkins was needed outside, and if not, then I guess we're down to relying on Montgomery. Surely you're not going to advocate that was a wise decision?

Like I said, hindsight is 20/20. How about your response to the guy who said having Williams wouldn't help the pathetic run defense we've shown in the preseason? I tend to agree with him.

I think it's fair to point out his run defense, it has always been his weak point. What I'll say to it, is that last week, I shared that I was concerned about the OL and that Rodgers performance wasn't good as a result of that. Your response to me was that it was a meaningless pre-season game and premature to be concerned. Shouldn't that apply to our DL as well?

The true question becomes Williams run defense vs. what would replace him - Muir/Hunter/Cole. I think this Williams run defense is better than these guys, even though I'd only call it "fair".

I feel like guys like Williams and Jolly and Hunter will end up making up for the loss of Williams inside pass rush. (Of course, losing KGB wouldn't help that, so hopefully he gets healthy.) I'm more worried about the interior run defense, and Williams wouldn't have helped much there.

Last season the rotation kept guys fresh and that made them better than they were, I believe. I'm not of the opinion that any one of the guys is a superstar.

One could opine that since it's likely Jolly will play, that Jenkins can stay outside, and life is good. However, that's short sighted because of the additional plays and minutes the starters will have to be on the field. Part of the real "value" that Williams provided was being another "dependable" body that you could have on the field with low risk of the "blown" assignment. I'm not feeling so confident about that right now. The depth in the wake of Williams departure is clearly substandard (IMHO) than what we had with Williams. I think the "real" loss is in the rotation. Can you really trust these remaining guys to step up and provide that? If not, then can the existing starters perform as well with additional minutes? It isn't so 'cut and dried' when you look at it this way.

BTW, because the Williams trade was universally praised on this forum, I predicted that it would end up turning out to be a bad move.

This reminds me of a chinese proverb that I will save for another time.

What I will say, is that there is a group of people here who think they are absolute "experts" and that anything they say represents concrete fact. This trade will be interesting to watch play out. But to say that Ted doesn't deserve criticism for it, if it blows up in his face is preposterous. There were warning signs. There is still hope that it pans out well, too. Doesn't look so hot today, but that's par for the course.

I think I dealt with everything, and without one "blah, blah, blah... Imagine that?

[Harlan Huckleby]

me, sir. I didn't like the trade.

Were you a Wynn guy last year?

if you believe what Bretsky says I sure was

[Bretsky]

me, sir. I didn't like the trade.

Were you a Wynn guy last year?

if you believe what Bretsky says I sure was

HH loved Wynn; posted some url's to prove it......although.....he pointed out that nobody really cares if he is completely wrong. Seeing I remember....and you do too.......me thinks he underestimates his football related views

[The Gunshooter]

GB is going into this season a little light at D-line.

I believe TT decided in 2006 he didn't want Corey Williams for the money he was going to have to shell out. That's why he drafted Harrell in the first place, to replace Williams. Then Jolly emerges and the depth was just wearing offenses out last year in the 4th quarter. They were lining up Kampman, Pickett, Williams, and KGB on passing downs and that's not too shabby. Then Jolly and KGB gets hurt and GB was not so great.

Now with Williams gone and Harrell hurt they have lost their depth.

TT had to trade Williams but I bet he doesn't make that move if he knew Favre was retiring and Harrell was going to be hurt again. I bet he would of franchised him.

They should be ok when Pickett, Hawk and KGB come back but if GB loses anybody else the defense becomes average. The only way GB matches or exceeds what they did last year is if Harrell is able to play well and GB has no injuries.

If GB traded for Lito Sheppard right now that would probably be the only way they can afford to not have Harrell this year.

[retailguy]

If GB traded for Lito Sheppard right now that would probably be the only way they can afford to not have Harrell this year.

Careful.... I got attacked pretty hard for supporting an effort to trade for him, even though I didn't agree with trading James Jones to get him.

We don't need no stinkin cornerbacks. The experts have spoken.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=14236

[HarveyWallbangers]

If GB traded for Lito Sheppard right now that would probably be the only way they can afford to not have Harrell this year.

Careful.... I got attacked pretty hard for supporting an effort to trade for him

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=14236

RG playing the victim role again. Surprising. Yet, he still manages to take a potshot. I won't claim that anybody attacked me though.

[retailguy]

If GB traded for Lito Sheppard right now that would probably be the only way they can afford to not have Harrell this year.

Careful.... I got attacked pretty hard for supporting an effort to trade for him

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=14236

RG playing the victim role again. Surprising. Yet, he still manages to take a potshot. I won't claim that anybody attacked me though.

The victim role? Whatever.... I did get attacked, even though I didn't like James Jones as part of the trade. facts is facts. Victimhood is optional..

In your world there was ZERO substance to what I said. If pointing that out makes me a "victim" then well, I guess that's the way it is.