NFL Suspends 6 for Starcaps

[RashanGary]

Whatever, Rastak. I don't sit around here making done deal claims about very many things. I have some strong opinions about Ted Thompson but even then I don't ever say "he's going to win a championship" or anything concrete. I don't think I know very many things, but the way that rule was written and everything that was being said about the star caps being liars and the players not being aware, I knew it was a done deal. That is no excuse. They never should have strayed from the banned list. The NFL has it written black and white.

NOw , if the reports were false (apparently in Grady's case) it's not so black and white. I had no reason to mistrust a bulk of the evidence. All the dots connected on most of it. I can see how it's possible a player or two may not have been under the full umbrella, but in hearing the reports I pretty much knew it was a done deal.

If it was a jury of average retards I would have been much less sure. Because I knew it was going ot be a team of lawyers or a judge, I knew it would not be misunderstood. It was very clear and if The Williams admitted to taking starcaps (as the reports said) then they were done from the get go. If the Williams' never admitted they took starcaps then it's not so black and white but all the reports siad they admitted it (and were claiming starcaps and the NFL mislead them which is no defense at all in the case of this rule). With that in mind, I knew they'd be done. I guess in a round about way I didn't know, but I would have bet on it. I felt very strongly that they would lose.

[KYPack]

These players weren't trying to mask steroid use.

Look at 'em!

Big Kentucky Fried Chicken eating guys (not that there's anything wrong with that ) like Grady & the Williams boys.

They are tubby dudes trying to make weight clauses in their contracts without working out.

The idea that somebody would take a banned substance to mask other masking use is way too stupid.

Jesus Christ, think you guys.

This ain't over. The NFL will get sued on this one and may not win.

The NFL's own 800 line cleared Star Caps for player use. The NFL may need a new boss soon. Goodell is heading for some tall cotton here and it may be over his head.

[Rastak]

These players weren't trying to mask steroid use.

Look at 'em!

Big Kentucky Fried Chicken eating guys (not that there's anything wrong with that ) like Grady & the Williams boys.

They are tubby dudes trying to make weight clauses in their contracts without working out.

The idea that somebody would take a banned substance to mask other masking use is way too stupid.

Jesus Christ, think you guys.

This ain't over. The NFL will get sued on this one and may not win.

The NFL's own 800 line cleared Star Caps for player use. The NFL may need a new boss soon. Goodell is heading for some tall cotton here and it may be over his head.

That is one of the things I heard. Players called in and the NFL dude merely reads the ingredients and cross checks the banned list. I have also heard there was an approved list of supplements, I also heard that was untrue and there was merely banned drugs lists.

Who knows, that's why it would be nice to get all the facts.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Up to this point, all we've heard is the player's side of the story (agents and lawyers). They ain't the most honest.

The NFL also said it sent two notifications about StarCaps on Dec. 19, 2006 — one to NFL club presidents, general managers and head athletic trainers and the second to NFLPA executive Stacy Robinson, who oversees the steroid policy for the union. That letter, according to the league, advised that StarCaps had been added to the list of prohibited dietary supplement companies.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Start printing those 2008 NFC North Division Champ hats in green and gold!!

CHEERS! I'll drink some of the packer kool-aid along with some maker's mark

[pbmax]

Up to this point, all we've heard is the player's side of the story (agents and lawyers). They ain't the most honest.

The NFL also said it sent two notifications about StarCaps on Dec. 19, 2006 — one to NFL club presidents, general managers and head athletic trainers and the second to NFLPA executive Stacy Robinson, who oversees the steroid policy for the union. That letter, according to the league, advised that StarCaps had been added to the list of prohibited dietary supplement companies.

The NFL doesn't have a list of approved over the counter supplements. It endorses a line of safe EAS supplements from that company in Colorado. Its entirely possible that weight loss supplements are not part of that agreement.

One of the reasons the NFL cannot verify the supplements is that the manufacturers of these items are not under the same regulatory burden (penalties are lower and the burden of proof is higher for the plaintiff) as pharmaceutical companies to list all ingredients and possible side effects. Its common for these products to contain substances that are not on the label.

The NFL has given its version in a phone conference today and documents they have released. I urge you to go to ESPN and look at the two letters the NFL says that they supplied to the league and the union. It does NOT list StarCaps as prohibited, but refers to the general category of weight loss supplements as "predominantly containing stimulants/diuretics" and that those active ingredients may be on the prohibited list. It also warns of the danger of unlisted ingredients.

NFL Weight Reduction Products Letter
ESPN Supplement Story

In my view, the NFL has given a misleading impression of its warning about StarCaps, making it seemed they told the union and teams about the Product, but actually warned them about the supplement type in general.

[pbmax]

No source, it just make sense. Why would all of these players be taking this dietary substance when they were warned about diet pills specifically

They were warned about diet and weight loss pills generally. The documents the NFL has furnished as the warning from their independent policy administrator, does not mention StarCaps nor its manufacturer. It warns that this type of supplement can contain unlisted stimulants or diuretics, either of which may be on the banned list. It gives no other details. See the link above for the actual NFL document.

The players were all trying to make weight clauses in their contracts. This is information provided directly by the players. Your position assumes they were also taking steroids and KNEW StarCaps had a diuretic in it. You have no evidence of either. Its possible, but we have no evidence of it.

[Rastak]

Up to this point, all we've heard is the player's side of the story (agents and lawyers). They ain't the most honest.

The NFL also said it sent two notifications about StarCaps on Dec. 19, 2006 — one to NFL club presidents, general managers and head athletic trainers and the second to NFLPA executive Stacy Robinson, who oversees the steroid policy for the union. That letter, according to the league, advised that StarCaps had been added to the list of prohibited dietary supplement companies.

The NFL doesn't have a list of approved over the counter supplements. It endorses a line of safe EAS supplements from that company in Colorado. Its entirely possible that weight loss supplements are not part of that agreement.

One of the reasons the NFL cannot verify the supplements is that the manufacturers of these items are not under the same regulatory burden (penalties are lower and the burden of proof is higher for the plaintiff) as pharmaceutical companies to list all ingredients and possible side effects. Its common for these products to contain substances that are not on the label.

The NFL has given its version in a phone conference today and documents they have released. I urge you to go to ESPN and look at the two letters the NFL says that they supplied to the league and the union. It does NOT list StarCaps as prohibited, but refers to the general category of weight loss supplements as "predominantly containing stimulants/diuretics" and that those active ingredients may be on the prohibited list. It also warns of the danger of unlisted ingredients.

NFL Weight Reduction Products Letter
ESPN Supplement Story

In my view, the NFL has given a misleading impression of its warning about StarCaps, making it seemed they told the union and teams about the Product, but actually warned them about the supplement type in general.

Thing I wonder is this, unlisted ingredients I understand but is it unreasonable to assume that one of those would not be an FDA regulated substance? I think it's reasonable to assume this....at least up until now. Makes you wonder us average Joes are ingesting.

[pbmax]

I must state that it very may well be that the Williams Wall were just unlucky and weren't trying to do anything wrong, but the rules are the rules and it is what it is.

I am surprised that the NFL, after finding an illegal substance in a supplement didn't bother to notify the FDA. I guess they feel it's someone else's business to protect the public. I'm not even talking about the players.

A good question. Although the complaint probably starts with law enforcement, since selling a controlled substance is a crime as well as a violation of their industry's regulations.

I also recall that the FDA is limited in what it can do to supplements compared to food additives or pharmaceuticals.

[denverYooper]

Up to this point, all we've heard is the player's side of the story (agents and lawyers). They ain't the most honest.

The NFL also said it sent two notifications about StarCaps on Dec. 19, 2006 — one to NFL club presidents, general managers and head athletic trainers and the second to NFLPA executive Stacy Robinson, who oversees the steroid policy for the union. That letter, according to the league, advised that StarCaps had been added to the list of prohibited dietary supplement companies.

The NFL doesn't have a list of approved over the counter supplements. It endorses a line of safe EAS supplements from that company in Colorado. Its entirely possible that weight loss supplements are not part of that agreement.

One of the reasons the NFL cannot verify the supplements is that the manufacturers of these items are not under the same regulatory burden (penalties are lower and the burden of proof is higher for the plaintiff) as pharmaceutical companies to list all ingredients and possible side effects. Its common for these products to contain substances that are not on the label.

The NFL has given its version in a phone conference today and documents they have released. I urge you to go to ESPN and look at the two letters the NFL says that they supplied to the league and the union. It does NOT list StarCaps as prohibited, but refers to the general category of weight loss supplements as "predominantly containing stimulants/diuretics" and that those active ingredients may be on the prohibited list. It also warns of the danger of unlisted ingredients.

NFL Weight Reduction Products Letter
ESPN Supplement Story

In my view, the NFL has given a misleading impression of its warning about StarCaps, making it seemed they told the union and teams about the Product, but actually warned them about the supplement type in general.

I don't think the Dec. 19th, 2006 letter mentioned in the article was the same as those linked from the sidebar. The ones linked from the article are indeed general statements issued at the beginning of each season--the dates are July, 2007 and July, 2008--but those weren't the letters the NFL claimed to have mailed out in 2006.

[pbmax]

Thing I wonder is this, unlisted ingredients I understand but is it unreasonable to assume that one of those would not be an FDA regulated substance? I think it's reasonable to assume this....at least up until now. Makes you wonder us average Joes are ingesting.

If its sold as a dietary supplement, then it cannot contain controlled/prescription substances. Supplement manufacturers enjoy a greater liberty compared to pharma companies or food processors, in that the burden of proof for safety is on FDA, not the manufacturer, once it is on the market.

The standard for getting to market is lower too. The FDA, by law, treats supplements as food and not medicine or drugs. The whole range of regulation and penalties is lower than with other substances the FDA regulates. If you remember the Ephedra problems, it took several public episodes and scares to produce the level of proof for the FDA to step in and force changes.

To directly answer the question, its not an unreasonable assumption, although it may be foolish, long term. Ironically, the manufacturer has a perverse incentive to put unlisted and effective substances in their supplements. StarCaps probably worked better than a truly all natural weight loss supplement, because they actually contained a diuretic that did reduce your weight.

[Rastak]

This is real consistent....from John Clayton's article:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3740514&searchName=clayton_john&campaign=rsssrch&source=john_clayton

Waiting game: It was interesting that the league deferred judgment in the StarCaps case on Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson. Jackson, according to a source, made a compelling argument why he shouldn't have been suspended for four games for having a banned substance in his diet pills.

[]{ilr]3]

These players weren't trying to mask steroid use.

Look at 'em!

Big Kentucky Fried Chicken eating guys (not that there's anything wrong with that ) like Grady & the Williams boys.

They are tubby dudes trying to make weight clauses in their contracts without working out.

The idea that somebody would take a banned substance to mask other masking use is way too stupid.

Jesus Christ, think you guys.

This ain't over. The NFL will get sued on this one and may not win.

The NFL's own 800 line cleared Star Caps for player use. The NFL may need a new boss soon. Goodell is heading for some tall cotton here and it may be over his head.

Actually I would expect the likes of Grady Jackson and his bad knees to be guilty of trying to mask steroid use than I would the Williams boys. What a great opportunity for him. Look like he is trying to cut weight (probably true) and mask steroid use at the same time to stay in the game longer or recover from injury sooner.

[denverYooper]

The rumblings I've heard so far on Grady Jackson are that his supplement use was prescribed for some health problems. So he had doctor's orders.

[3irty1]

The normal side of me was really hoping the NFL would do the right thing and let all of these guys off. The Packer fan side of me is pleased with anything that might help his team.