D-line performance, not TT's fault THIS year

[Patler]

I can't really blame TT for the D-line performance this year. However, if there is no improvement next year, or at least attempts to improve, I will dump it at his door.. Why do I not blame him this year? Easy.

- The D- line was very good in '07, had "too many players" in the eyes of many, and lost just one while adding a draft pick.

RE: KGB
- seemed to be rejuvenated in '07 by fewer snaps, had a very good year.
- just turned 31, not yet old.
- surgery was thought to be "cleaning up" some aggravations.
- no reason to expect him to fall of a cliff in his performance level, from very good to gone.

Re: Jenkins
- not unreasonable to expect better performance with a year experience at DE .
- had a number of minor injuries in '07 that healed.
- no reason to expect him to be lost for 12+ games.

Re: Pickett
- just turned 29
- many felt he was one of the better run playing DTs in the league
- no reason to expect a decline in performance

Re:Jolly
- young player had steadily improved
- not unreasonable to expect more improvement
- no reason at all to expect decline in performance
- certainly no reason to anticipate legal problems and resulting distraction

Re: Harrell
- I can't fault him for expecting a 1st round pick to produce even if we argue the pick itself
- if Harrell was a 1st round player, replacing Williams should have been smooth
- at times last season he did show flashes of the physical ability TT saw in him.
-a full off-season should have helped a lot
- in short, I can criticize TT for drafting Harrell, but given that he did, I can not fault TT for expecting performance from Harrell this season. That's why he drafted him where he did.

Re: Kampman
- could expect him to play like Kampman always has.

Re: Others
- re-signed Cole as a consistent sub.
- MOVED UP in the draft for an eventual replacement for KGB
- had a few younger players to work into the mix, including Montgomery, Hunter, Muir, Bolston and others.

To summarize, the line changed little from '07 to '08, and I can understand why TT thought it would be no worse than last year, and maybe even better with no change from Pickett, Kampman, KGB and Cole; and some marginal improvements (or more) from Jolly, Jenkins, Harrell and one or two younger guys.

Going into 2009 he has to re-evaluate much of that. Will Harrell ever produce? Will Pickett and Jolly be like 2007 or 2008? Can Thompson really replace KGB starting NOW? Should Cole be signed? Can Jenkins give a full-season performance? How many new players are needed? He has to find the answers or at least work toward finding them. If he stands pat, he has to be right in his evaluation that '08 was an aberration.

[Pugger]

I agree, there is no way TT can know how badly this unit would get hit by injuries and players underperforming compared to last season. But now TT must address this position AGAIN.

[KYPack]

I'd quibble with TT in one area. One of the cluster of 3 top picks should have been BDTA. Best defensive tackle available. I know position drafting is a losers game, but the 3 top guys are 66% projects. We could have used a good young DT to break in. Now, we are a year back. I'm not draft savvy to know who would have been that pick, but it would have been worth the old college try.

KGB falling off the cliff was a true blow.

I don't have that big a probelm letting Williams go for the pick, but wish that pick had been a DLineman.

[Patler]

KGB falling off the cliff was a true blow.

Especially coupled with losing Jenkins for the season.

[packers11]

I tend to agree, no one foresaw this mess at the D-line we have now...


Great break-down Patler on the D-Line... I love reading your analysis/posts...

[Gunakor]

Agreed 100%. TT's job starts in February. Now that he knows what needs to be fixed on this defense, he better get to work and fix it. I've become much in awe of his ability to turn a payroll teetering on the cap into a very healthy situation with plenty of excess (since I work in payroll and accounting myself, albeit in a much different field), but that makes no difference whatsoever if that money isn't used when needed to fill gaping holes on our roster.

Like I've been saying, THIS offseason is the one in which I will judge TT. He has his core players, but not a team. Now that he knows what works AND knows what doesn't work, he has a much clearer view of what needs to happen.

Make it happen TT.

[packerbacker1234]

Re: D-line performance, not TT's fault THIS year

You are right that it's not his fault KGB's minor surgery really seemed to affect him, the Cullen got hurt, or that Ryan Picket's play declined.

However, it is his fault for assuming a #1 draft pick who has done nothing in the little time he has been on the field, and has been hurt not just in a majority of his college career, but in a majority of his NFL career (2 seasons, hurt both years), to replace Corey Williams who was very solid and went on to start for another team. You NEVER assume a #1 draft pick, who was hurt befor the draft, then got hurt AFTER the draft, is going to be better then someone who has proven themselves.

That IS his fault. For drafting a player who had a major injury and didn't really play his final year in college, and assuming said player, after getting another injury that put him out most the season his rookie year, could replace a healthy, and solid playing, DT.

Think how much of a difference the line would have stopping hte run with just one more solid DT in the mix. Could be a world of difference.

Sorry, that part is TT's fault. The rest is not.

[packerbacker1234]

Agreed 100%. TT's job starts in February. Now that he knows what needs to be fixed on this defense, he better get to work and fix it. I've become much in awe of his ability to turn a payroll teetering on the cap into a very healthy situation with plenty of excess (since I work in payroll and accounting myself, albeit in a much different field), but that makes no difference whatsoever if that money isn't used when needed to fill gaping holes on our roster.

Like I've been saying, THIS offseason is the one in which I will judge TT. He has his core players, but not a team. Now that he knows what works AND knows what doesn't work, he has a much clearer view of what needs to happen.

Make it happen TT.

Well, Woodson's contract is up. So is tauchers. Most likely a few others too.

Plus, the current contract with the players union, and the nfl, are up after next season with caps, shared revenue, etc. Meaning? The packers can spend whatever they want, they just don't have the money to do so. Welcome to the world of baseball. We are in a small market, and can't afford elite players in 2 years.

I agree he is good at managing the cap, he is also not very good at spending the money. Once he dumped favre, you knew that money would go to AR at some point. That still left a lot of mone yon the table that could of kept Williams, and heck, JOHN RYAN should of at least been practice squaded, not just outright cut when he had no competition.

It is what it is: TT is a decent person to have in the draft room, the rest of his decisions leave a lot to be desired. Yeah, he brought in woodson, and now he is most likely going to let him go after he finally go to the probowl as a packer... more likely then not, because Woodson said himself he wants to play for a winner, and as it stands, the packers are not currently winners.

[Gunakor]

Re: D-line performance, not TT's fault THIS year

You are right that it's not his fault KGB's minor surgery really seemed to affect him, the Cullen got hurt, or that Ryan Picket's play declined.

However, it is his fault for assuming a #1 draft pick who has done nothing in the little time he has been on the field, and has been hurt not just in a majority of his college career, but in a majority of his NFL career (2 seasons, hurt both years), to replace Corey Williams who was very solid and went on to start for another team. You NEVER assume a #1 draft pick, who was hurt befor the draft, then got hurt AFTER the draft, is going to be better then someone who has proven themselves.

That IS his fault. For drafting a player who had a major injury and didn't really play his final year in college, and assuming said player, after getting another injury that put him out most the season his rookie year, could replace a healthy, and solid playing, DT.

Think how much of a difference the line would have stopping hte run with just one more solid DT in the mix. Could be a world of difference.

Sorry, that part is TT's fault. The rest is not.

And what if Harrell had overcome his injuries and played up to his potential? Or at the very least, played up to the level he was playing at late last season? Don't forget now, Harrell played effectively late in the season last year, so there was no reason NOT to believe he'd be any worse than solid this year. He was healthy when Corey Williams was traded.

[Gunakor]

P.S. Woodson has a couple more years left on his contract. From Wikipedia:

On April 26, 2006, Charles Woodson signed a seven-year, $52 million contract with the Green Bay Packers.

He's going to be a Packer for a few more years, barring retirement or trade.

[The Leaper]

I do blame TT...at least in terms of a pathetic pass rush.

This team had little pass rush down the stretch last season. Thompson traded the only DT on the team capable of generating a pass rush. Thompson acquired nobody at either DE or DT who could mount a pass rush.

Very similar to the OL...where Thompson sits on his hands far too often rather than proactively acquiring talent.

But, McCarthy and his corp of pathetic coaches should share the blame. The breakdowns occuring on a weekly basis are disturbing, to say the least.

[Gunakor]

I agree he is good at managing the cap, he is also not very good at spending the money. Once he dumped favre, you knew that money would go to AR at some point. That still left a lot of mone yon the table that could of kept Williams, and heck, JOHN RYAN should of at least been practice squaded, not just outright cut when he had no competition.

I broke Rodgers contract info down already. THIS season, he's making MORE MONEY than Brett Favre. 12.9 million to be exact. This was done so that next year the remainder of his guaranteed salary will be paid off, and by 2010 he'll be making just base salary. So the money we saved by trading Favre isn't available this year, or next year either to be perfectly honest. But in 2010, when Rodgers is playing for base salary only, he'll be making a mere 6 million. That's when we'll get to use the money we saved by trading Favre.

[Gunakor]

I do blame TT...at least in terms of a pathetic pass rush.

This team had little pass rush down the stretch last season. Thompson traded the only DT on the team capable of generating a pass rush. Thompson acquired nobody at either DE or DT who could mount a pass rush.

Very similar to the OL...where Thompson sits on his hands far too often rather than proactively acquiring talent.

But, McCarthy and his corp of pathetic coaches should share the blame. The breakdowns occuring on a weekly basis are disturbing, to say the least.

I'm sure he thought KGB could generate a pass rush. I mean, he did have 9.5 sacks just one season ago.

[The Leaper]

I'm sure he thought KGB could generate a pass rush. I mean, he did have 9.5 sacks just one season ago.

My point was that you couldn't count on him to be as good as 07...especially after the surgery. You had to think he would decline at least somewhat...so what did Thompson do to offset that?

[Gunakor]

I'm sure he thought KGB could generate a pass rush. I mean, he did have 9.5 sacks just one season ago.

My point was that you couldn't count on him to be as good as 07...especially after the surgery. You had to think he would decline at least somewhat...so what did Thompson do to offset that?

He also has Cullen Jenkins on the roster, who was healthy back in August.

You may have thought that he was about to decline, but others did not. The surgery was supposed to help his production. It was supposed to clean up what was wrong with his knee so he'd be a more productive football player. That's what my feeling was coming into the season. So I can't blame TT for doing nothing to offset that. Other guys have come back from knee surgery and performed brilliantly at his position, so why should we have expected KGB not to?

And even if I did feel the same way as you, I could not have predicted such a SHARP decline as we've witnessed from him this year. 9.5 to 0.5? Much more significant than I'm sure even you could have predicted.

Like I've been saying, I didn't expect him to address this one last season. He did more than I expected him to do by trading UP in the draft to get Jeremy Thompson. Obviously that wasn't enough, but that couldn't have been known back in April. Now that it's known, I do in fact expect him to address the problem. And if he doesn't, believe me I'll be blaming him for not doing so.