D-line performance, not TT's fault THIS year

[Partial]

Do you fault him at all for banking on Cullen Jenkins? Jenkins has been an annual tease, flashing incredible skills, but somehow always getting hurt!!

Where do you draw the line? If he misses a good chunk of action next year do you cut the cord?

[Gunakor]

Do you fault him at all for banking on Cullen Jenkins? Jenkins has been an annual tease, flashing incredible skills, but somehow always getting hurt!!

Where do you draw the line? If he misses a good chunk of action next year do you cut the cord?

Maybe, but he was solid if not spectacular for us last year. His selling point though might be that he can play effectively both inside and outside, which gives him an advantage in the negotiations when it becomes time to renew his contract.

[Bretsky]

I don't agree with too much of this

TT should have known nobody was in line to add what Williams added to this squad. Could have prepared for the distinct chance that Justine would be hurt again and Jenkins....who has been oft injured lately...would get hurt again. KGB had knee surgery and is up there in years.

He waiting til a late 4th to do anything there.

He takes the fall on this one in my book.

On paper TT has not really brought anybody in to help this group besides Pickett. Hunter......junk......Montgomery......junk....Cole .....just a guy..the 4th round draft pick......undeveloped project. We have guys playing serious downs that may not make other teams. Cole is a last DL and nothing more; he's one of our better guys.

We're devoid of talent; I've turned into more of a TT apologist that I was a year ago but he takes the fall for the personnell on the defensive line.

[Gunakor]

I don't agree with too much of this

TT should have known nobody was in line to add what Williams added to this squad. Could have prepared for the distinct chance that Justine would be hurt again and Jenkins....who has been oft injured lately...would get hurt again. KGB had knee surgery and is up there in years.

He waiting til a late 4th to do anything there.

He takes the fall on this one in my book.

On paper TT has not really brought anybody in to help this group besides Pickett. Hunter......junk......Montgomery......junk....Cole .....just a guy..the 4th round draft pick......undeveloped project. We have guys playing serious downs that may not make other teams. Cole is a last DL and nothing more; he's one of our better guys.

We're devoid of talent; I've turned into more of a TT apologist that I was a year ago but he takes the fall for the personnell on the defensive line.

I think he was banking on a combination of KGB and Jenkins at DE, just like he did last season. Jenkins, especially, since he had a monster season in 2006 and a solid but not spectacular 2007. It worked for us last season, why shouldn't have worked this season? They aren't that old - KGB is the oldest and he's only 31. Looking at everything involved, I can't really see where the need was to upgrade at DE. Now using hindsight as my guide, there is an obvious need. Since TT now has that benefit as well, I'm sure he'll get something done. If not, trust me, I'll jump on him for it.

[Bretsky]

I don't agree with too much of this

TT should have known nobody was in line to add what Williams added to this squad. Could have prepared for the distinct chance that Justine would be hurt again and Jenkins....who has been oft injured lately...would get hurt again. KGB had knee surgery and is up there in years.

He waiting til a late 4th to do anything there.

He takes the fall on this one in my book.

On paper TT has not really brought anybody in to help this group besides Pickett. Hunter......junk......Montgomery......junk....Cole .....just a guy..the 4th round draft pick......undeveloped project. We have guys playing serious downs that may not make other teams. Cole is a last DL and nothing more; he's one of our better guys.

We're devoid of talent; I've turned into more of a TT apologist that I was a year ago but he takes the fall for the personnell on the defensive line.

I think he was banking on a combination of KGB and Jenkins at DE, just like he did last season. Jenkins, especially, since he had a monster season in 2006 and a solid but not spectacular 2007. It worked for us last season, why shouldn't have worked this season? They aren't that old - KGB is the oldest and he's only 31. Looking at everything involved, I can't really see where the need was to upgrade at DE. Now using hindsight as my guide, there is an obvious need. Since TT now has that benefit as well, I'm sure he'll get something done. If not, trust me, I'll jump on him for it.

Too many question marks coming off injury.

And I don't see Justine offering the upfield penetration that CW offers; he seems more like a plugger although he hasn't played enought for us to know much of anything about him.

With all of the factors we needed at least one more legit player

Montgomery, Hunter, Cole.....those are guys that should be your last player on the DL.

That falls back to TT

[Partial]

Do you fault him at all for banking on Cullen Jenkins? Jenkins has been an annual tease, flashing incredible skills, but somehow always getting hurt!!

Where do you draw the line? If he misses a good chunk of action next year do you cut the cord?

Maybe, but he was solid if not spectacular for us last year. His selling point though might be that he can play effectively both inside and outside, which gives him an advantage in the negotiations when it becomes time to renew his contract.

No he wasn't. He was hurt and ineffective for the most part. He was FAR more dominant at DE in the end of 06 than he was in '07. Coaches have said he had nagging injuries and was just struggling to get by.

He was solid I'll give you, but nowhere near spectacular. We was 3rd behind Kampman and Pickett last year imo.

[packerbacker1234]

Re: D-line performance, not TT's fault THIS year

You are right that it's not his fault KGB's minor surgery really seemed to affect him, the Cullen got hurt, or that Ryan Picket's play declined.

However, it is his fault for assuming a #1 draft pick who has done nothing in the little time he has been on the field, and has been hurt not just in a majority of his college career, but in a majority of his NFL career (2 seasons, hurt both years), to replace Corey Williams who was very solid and went on to start for another team. You NEVER assume a #1 draft pick, who was hurt befor the draft, then got hurt AFTER the draft, is going to be better then someone who has proven themselves.

That IS his fault. For drafting a player who had a major injury and didn't really play his final year in college, and assuming said player, after getting another injury that put him out most the season his rookie year, could replace a healthy, and solid playing, DT.

Think how much of a difference the line would have stopping hte run with just one more solid DT in the mix. Could be a world of difference.

Sorry, that part is TT's fault. The rest is not.

And what if Harrell had overcome his injuries and played up to his potential? Or at the very least, played up to the level he was playing at late last season? Don't forget now, Harrell played effectively late in the season last year, so there was no reason NOT to believe he'd be any worse than solid this year. He was healthy when Corey Williams was traded.

No, he wasn't. He was getting surgery and was suppose to be on pace to return around training camp. Then he got hurt again, and they put him on the PUP list.

And, at the end of last season, Harrel didn't do much. Just because you actually saw his number on the field doesn't mean he played well. I was not impressed, and I was severely upset to see his number called before williams in the playoffs, when williams was outperforming him.

You simply do not let a solid DL go until said first round does something. Still waiting. It's getting to the point where Harrell is a Bust. They did it with KGB, could of easily did it with Williams. Keep him till TC, then let him go if you wish. Harrell didn't make ti to TC, and thus, Williams would of still been around.

Just saying, Harrell didn't do anything last season any better then Williams, and williams is pretty young himself.

[Partial]

Hindsight is good and nice on the Corey Williams deal, but at the time it seemed like we were getting a steal since he was leaving either way. I would do the deal again in retrospect, but I might not draft a receiver

[The Leaper]

Hindsight is good and nice on the Corey Williams deal, but at the time it seemed like we were getting a steal since he was leaving either way. I would do the deal again in retrospect, but I might not draft a receiver

Yeah...I like Jordy, but he's a luxury we really don't need at the moment. We need some players up front on either side of the ball. Brohm isn't exactly reaping rewards for us either.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, with Jones being injured so much, we ended up needing Jordy. I'm happy with the Jordy pick. Jennings + Nelson + Jones = solid threesome for Rodgers to throw to for the next few years.

[Partial]

Actually, with Jones being injured so much, we ended up needing Jordy. I'm happy with the Jordy pick. Jennings + Nelson + Jones = solid threesome for Rodgers to throw to for the next few years.

Yeah. I think the offense is pretty much set beyond the OL, and even that is not awful.

They need to get a dominating DL, though.

[bobblehead]

Well, Woodson's contract is up. So is tauchers. Most likely a few others too.

Plus, the current contract with the players union, and the nfl, are up after next season with caps, shared revenue, etc. Meaning? The packers can spend whatever they want, they just don't have the money to do so. Welcome to the world of baseball. We are in a small market, and can't afford elite players in 2 years.

I agree he is good at managing the cap, he is also not very good at spending the money. Once he dumped favre, you knew that money would go to AR at some point. That still left a lot of mone yon the table that could of kept Williams, and heck, JOHN RYAN should of at least been practice squaded, not just outright cut when he had no competition.

It is what it is: TT is a decent person to have in the draft room, the rest of his decisions leave a lot to be desired. Yeah, he brought in woodson, and now he is most likely going to let him go after he finally go to the probowl as a packer... more likely then not, because Woodson said himself he wants to play for a winner, and as it stands, the packers are not currently winners.

Lotta errors in one post. First Woodson isn't up for several years.

Second we couldn't practice squad Ryan, I'm not sure you can practice squad a guy with a full NFL season under him but either way he was signed by a team to the 53 man roster and we don't keep his rights on the practice squad. No need to practice squad him at the end of camp when guys who we want to learn our systems are kept there.

Third, we can afford elite players, the packers are actually a high revenue team and the NFL shares TV contracts, not negotiates each team out like baseball.

Fourth, I don't think Woodson has ever said anything to make anyone believe he wants out of green bay...source please.

Fifth, what decisions leave a lot to be desired?? Being right in the hunt for moss, gonzalez, arrington and vinitiari? I guess he would have to land EVERY person he talks to for some people to be happy. The decision to go with ARod?? Only in some peoples eyes. He went with the future now instead of letting a guy in his last year, no one more, wait last year, actually can I just have my starting gig back, dictate the terms of the team.

This post reminded me of "an inconveniant truth" that strangely lacked a lot of truth.

[Bretsky]

Hindsight is good and nice on the Corey Williams deal, but at the time it seemed like we were getting a steal since he was leaving either way. I would do the deal again in retrospect, but I might not draft a receiver

Yeah...I like Jordy, but he's a luxury we really don't need at the moment. We need some players up front on either side of the ball. Brohm isn't exactly reaping rewards for us either.

Not to make you guys feel even worse, but we drafted Brian Brohm with the pick we received for Corey Williams

[Patler]

Re: D-line performance, not TT's fault THIS year

You are right that it's not his fault KGB's minor surgery really seemed to affect him, the Cullen got hurt, or that Ryan Picket's play declined.

However, it is his fault for assuming a #1 draft pick who has done nothing in the little time he has been on the field, and has been hurt not just in a majority of his college career, but in a majority of his NFL career (2 seasons, hurt both years), to replace Corey Williams who was very solid and went on to start for another team. You NEVER assume a #1 draft pick, who was hurt befor the draft, then got hurt AFTER the draft, is going to be better then someone who has proven themselves.

That IS his fault. For drafting a player who had a major injury and didn't really play his final year in college, and assuming said player, after getting another injury that put him out most the season his rookie year, could replace a healthy, and solid playing, DT.

Think how much of a difference the line would have stopping hte run with just one more solid DT in the mix. Could be a world of difference.

Sorry, that part is TT's fault. The rest is not.

You obviously missed my point on that. I agree, you can argue that selecting Harrell in 2007 was wrong, but given that TT thought him worthy of being a 16th pick, I can not then blame him for relying on Harrell to produce this year when he ended 2007 healthy and active. To draft someone at #16, then expect him to do nothing in his second year is doubly foolish. Once you pick him you have to trust your evaluation and judgment until you are proven wrong. 2009 is a whole different story. Another lost seasn AND ending the year injured.

[Patler]

Jenkins has been dinged up some in his career, but never missed significant time until this season. I do think now you have to question his reliability.

As for KGB, he is not that old. His surgery was thought to be minor. The problem didn't even crop up until later in the off season, From a June 18 article:

"I have no doubt that I should be ready for training camp," Gbaja-Biamila said. "If this was the season, I'd probably be out there trying to get back on the field. I'd be on the field actually doing some stuff. But we're not in any rush. We've got time on our side."
...

Gbaja-Biamila began the offseason doing exercises to strengthen an ankle that bothered him last season, but that made his knee flare up. After examining his knee, Gbaja-Biamila said team doctors told him he had a torn meniscus, and there would be no guarantee the injury wouldn't keep flaring up unless he had surgery.

Gbaja-Biamila doesn't believe there was one single incident that caused the injury, chalking it up to wear and tear. He had the surgery and now is rehabbing, doing low-impact exercises such as climbing on a StairMaster and running in a swimming pool.

"I've just been using this opportunity to get rested, trying to look at the more positive side of it," Gbaja-Biamila said. "I've been in the league eight years, going into my ninth season, so maybe I'm not out there getting my body as beat up. I wish I didn't have to get (surgery) to get the rest and everything."

Once doctors clear Gbaja-Biamila to return, he doesn't expect to sit out selected practices to rest - something Packers coach Mike McCarthy has done with several veterans who are nursing chronic injuries.

What in that scenario would make you think he would fall from 9.5 sacks and leading the team in hurries in 2007, to not being able to get near the QB in 2008?