NFL Scouts Rank Rodgers 19th in NFL

[Bossman641]

The article is loaded with great quotes. It really is a great read for the homers. Seriously, tons of famous NFL talent evaluators, including Bill Walsh (Steve Young, Joe Montana) saying they think he is maxed out or near maxed out, etc.

Well, since Bill Walsh has been dead since July 2007 I'm not sure how valid is opinion is for the Aaron Rodgers we saw this season, or even the Aaron Rodgers we saw in pre-season 2007, or the Aaron Rodgers we saw replacing Favre against the Cowboys in 2007..

This is a key example of showing how ridiculously foolish and ignorant Partial is.....quoting a dead man.

God, you really enjoy talking out of your ass, don't you, P?

There's a quote in the article from Walsh giving Walsh's take on Rodgers from when he was drafted. Not sure what relevance that has to this year at all.

Walsh basically said that since Rodgers didn't even have a Division I and had to play at a junior college his upside was limited. Called him a great college system QB.

[KYPack]

Here's a good thing to help have the discussion.

The list...

As long as you don't lift the article directly and credit JSO, there is NO copyright infringement.

JSO consulted some NFL scouts and came up with the following list:

I've added some comments to the scouts and JSO's opinions

They rated 12 quarterbacks superior to Rodgers by a 4-0 vote of the scouts:
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Jay Cutler
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Tony Romo (Is he, or ain't he, I don't really know)
Carson Palmer (When healty, for sure. Some guys never come back from the elbow, do they Mr Bradshaw?)
Matt Ryan
Donovan McNabb
Philip Rivers (You could quibble about Rivers if you want. Sometimes his ego overloads his brain)
Kurt Warner

All 5 year or so starters, except for Ryan, the Uber Rookie. 2 years ago, everybody would yell about Warner's inclusion, but yeah, these guys have time and grade & are solid NFL QB's. Rodgers is in his 1st season as the man.

Three guys were chosen over Rodgers by a 3-1 margin. IOW, one scout disagreed with the other 3 scouts

Brett Favre (let's not go there)
Jake Delhomme (I'd have to say JD is definitely a better starting QB than AR.)
Vince Young (Jeff Fisher disagrees with the "scouts")




These 3 QB's finished in a 2-2 tie with Rodgers, so 2 scouts yea, and two scouts nay

Jason Campbell (Wildly inconsistent and has had his ups and downs all year)
Chad Pennington (Sure, Chad is a helluva man and competitor. AR has the arm and talent all over Chad. Upside? Give me AR any time for potential)
Jeff Garcia (Benched for a bit, I'd say Rodgers has had a better year.)

If you look at it, Rodgers is about the 14th or 15th best QB in the NFL. Top half of the league in his first year as a starter. Not that shabby. His rating was 12? Maybe he outplayed 2-3 of the more highly rated QB's

It's just a list, about right in points, highly debatable in others.

[Partial]

Scouts also thought Mandarich was a can't miss prospect, Driver would never make it, Brady sucked, Ryan Leaf was unstoppable, Marques Colston wasn't good, Reggie Bush would light up the league like he did at USC...

I think you get my point

It's a lot harder evaluating a college player versus someone who has played in the ranks of the NFL, don't you say? Once you see and have footage of how someone matches up with real world NFL players, its a heck of a lot easier to judge,

Do you agree?

I agree to a point. 14 starts and a few mop-up appearances prior to that is not enough to project a career, especially for a guy like Rodgers who appears bright, hard-working, and willing to learn. He has enough playing time to where we can critique where he is at right now, but not enough for us to point out his weak tendencies or the things he will always struggle with.

In the article, how the hell did scouts rank VY ahead of Rodgers as of right now? Really? They'd rather have the guy who has contemplated quitting football multiple times and asked to be taken out of the game? Maybe in the future when he rededicates himself, but right now, no way.

Work ethic aside, give me Young any day of the week over Rodgers. You can learn athleticism.

[KYPack]

Work ethic aside, give me Young any day of the week over Rodgers. You can learn athleticism.

It's the opposite.

You can coach guys to PLAY better, You CAN'T learn athleticism. That's what you are born with. You can get in the Gym, make yourself stronger and learn how to play more effectively. But you are born with athleticism.

Young is probably the world's best example of that. He's the best athlete on the list. But he isn't the best at the thing you can learn.

Being an NFL QB.

[Zool]

Vince, I dont really want to play pro football, Young? Really?

[Bossman641]

Scouts also thought Mandarich was a can't miss prospect, Driver would never make it, Brady sucked, Ryan Leaf was unstoppable, Marques Colston wasn't good, Reggie Bush would light up the league like he did at USC...

I think you get my point

It's a lot harder evaluating a college player versus someone who has played in the ranks of the NFL, don't you say? Once you see and have footage of how someone matches up with real world NFL players, its a heck of a lot easier to judge,

Do you agree?

I agree to a point. 14 starts and a few mop-up appearances prior to that is not enough to project a career, especially for a guy like Rodgers who appears bright, hard-working, and willing to learn. He has enough playing time to where we can critique where he is at right now, but not enough for us to point out his weak tendencies or the things he will always struggle with.

In the article, how the hell did scouts rank VY ahead of Rodgers as of right now? Really? They'd rather have the guy who has contemplated quitting football multiple times and asked to be taken out of the game? Maybe in the future when he rededicates himself, but right now, no way.

Work ethic aside, give me Young any day of the week over Rodgers. You can learn athleticism.

I'm going to assume you meant you CAN'T learn athleticism. I don't disagree. On a purely physical standpoint, Young has Rodgers beat. Young has all the tools. Big, fast, strong; he was supposed to be the one to finally redefine the QB position that Vick failed at.

However, he never got his throwing motion and accuracy issues figured out. And now there are serious doubts about whether he even has the desire to be an NFL QB.

Rodgers>Young right now

[sharpe1027]

I'm going to assume you meant you CAN'T learn athleticism. I don't disagree. On a purely physical standpoint, Young has Rodgers beat. Young has all the tools. Big, fast, strong; he was supposed to be the one to finally redefine the QB position that Vick failed at.

However, he never got his throwing motion and accuracy issues figured out. And now there are serious doubts about whether he even has the desire to be an NFL QB.

Rodgers>Young right now

Ryan Leaf was judged by many scouts to have better physical tools than Manning. I would assume Leaf would also be judged better than Rodgers with respect to many physical abilities. Of course, that's really not the point of this discussion.

IMHO, Partial (Tank2) just looks for any position that will get a lot of responses and then defends the position (maybe just to keep the conversation going). Partial seems to be looking for any and all possible ways to rock the boat. I must admit it is entertaining ... to a point.

[digitaldean]

Vince, I dont really want to play pro football, Young? Really?

Is he related to Vince "I am so thinskinned to booing, I have to sulk, go into depression and carry a gun to threaten to blow my brains out" Young?

Partial, are you channeling Bill Walsh now? Maybe we should have a "Crossing Over" thread just for you.

You are bordering on Pacopete's domain. Find any argument that props up your point and ignore evidence to the contrary (even if your evidence is coming from a guy that could be auditioning for the next Weekend at Bernie's sequel).

I say AR's a solid QB. Great or HOF material? Doubtful, but I have a better gut feeling watching him than I did dregs like Randy Wright, Anthony Dilweg, TJ Rubley, Blair Kiel, David Whitehurst, etc., etc. No one in their right mind is saying he is the 2nd coming of BF.

He's led his team to leads/ties/game winning FG opportunities more than he has lost games (only to have a Twinkie-like defense choke shortly thereafter or have a FG missed).

Also, did you see Favre yesterday? When he wasn't running for his life or sacked he was throwing up hopeless across-the-field picks or underthrowing receivers. And when he finally did hit the mark in a key spot, Coles or Franks had cement block hands. Since points are the only things that matter to you, look at Favre over the last 4 weeks:

1 TD, 6 picks

[SkinBasket]

AR is extremely comparable to Eli, I think. You put AR on that team, I would suspect he would have very similar numbers and wins, all without that stoopid looking face. I also think Eli should be more toward the bottom of that list, though.

Picking VY over Rodgers is retarded. Even before he proved he's got the whackies in his head, he was never terribly impressive. Jumping on the Ryan bandwagon seems premature as well, but I guess then the scouts can claim they knew all along he projected into a decent starting QB. And at this point, Palmer might have to be made into an android... or would that be a cyborg? I always get the two confused... Anyway, he might need extensive rebuilding before he's effective again - if ever.

[Bossman641]

I'm going to assume you meant you CAN'T learn athleticism. I don't disagree. On a purely physical standpoint, Young has Rodgers beat. Young has all the tools. Big, fast, strong; he was supposed to be the one to finally redefine the QB position that Vick failed at.

However, he never got his throwing motion and accuracy issues figured out. And now there are serious doubts about whether he even has the desire to be an NFL QB.

Rodgers>Young right now

IMHO, Partial (Tank2) just looks for any position that will get a lot of responses and then defends the position (maybe just to keep the conversation going). Partial seems to be looking for any and all possible ways to rock the boat. I must admit it is entertaining ... to a point.

I've suspected the same thing for a while, and I believe Partial has posted as much before that he likes to stir the pot from time to time. He normally doesn't carry it on this long or to this extent. Kudos to you Partial.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Three of four scouts rated Vince Young higher than Aaron Rodgers? That is extremely laughable, and I doubt even the biggest supporters of Young (Bulldog?) would even do that at this point. Notice that Young was highly touted by these scouts when he came out--which is why he went 3rd overall. I'm thinking some of them are trying to cover their own failure to scout these two guys appropriately?

[Partial]

I'm going to assume you meant you CAN'T learn athleticism. I don't disagree. On a purely physical standpoint, Young has Rodgers beat. Young has all the tools. Big, fast, strong; he was supposed to be the one to finally redefine the QB position that Vick failed at.

However, he never got his throwing motion and accuracy issues figured out. And now there are serious doubts about whether he even has the desire to be an NFL QB.

Rodgers>Young right now

IMHO, Partial (Tank2) just looks for any position that will get a lot of responses and then defends the position (maybe just to keep the conversation going). Partial seems to be looking for any and all possible ways to rock the boat. I must admit it is entertaining ... to a point.

I've suspected the same thing for a while, and I believe Partial has posted as much before that he likes to stir the pot from time to time. He normally doesn't carry it on this long or to this extent. Kudos to you Partial.

Again... instead of looking objective and listening to what real NFL scouts say, you would rather trust your uninformed and unprofessional opinion.

I seem to remember Young carrying a Titans team on his back. This year he has some head issues. I'm not sweating it.

[sharpe1027]

Again... instead of looking objective and listening to what real NFL scouts say, you would rather trust your uninformed and unprofessional opinion.

I seem to remember Young carrying a Titans team on his back. This year he has some head issues. I'm not sweating it.

Partial, if you show one article in support of a position, that means that other articles and reasoned opinions must be wrong?

[Bossman641]

I'm going to assume you meant you CAN'T learn athleticism. I don't disagree. On a purely physical standpoint, Young has Rodgers beat. Young has all the tools. Big, fast, strong; he was supposed to be the one to finally redefine the QB position that Vick failed at.

However, he never got his throwing motion and accuracy issues figured out. And now there are serious doubts about whether he even has the desire to be an NFL QB.

Rodgers>Young right now

IMHO, Partial (Tank2) just looks for any position that will get a lot of responses and then defends the position (maybe just to keep the conversation going). Partial seems to be looking for any and all possible ways to rock the boat. I must admit it is entertaining ... to a point.

I've suspected the same thing for a while, and I believe Partial has posted as much before that he likes to stir the pot from time to time. He normally doesn't carry it on this long or to this extent. Kudos to you Partial.

Again... instead of looking objective and listening to what real NFL scouts say, you would rather trust your uninformed and unprofessional opinion.

I seem to remember Young carrying a Titans team on his back. This year he has some head issues. I'm not sweating it.

Some "head issues"? Haha, I guess that's one way to put it.

I frankly could care less what the scouts say. I would take Rodgers over VY in a heartbeat. I'm not speaking for the scouts, I'm speaking for myself. You and the scouts can have VY, although I'm not sure how much good he could do from the bench...or a shrink's couch.

[sheepshead]

The NFL has 450 non-player employees--who are these "4" jamokes anyway and why do we care what they say?