With all the troubles at WR, why didnt the packers...

[Patler]

It's easy to condemn T.O. based on his ego, but his ability as a WR is beyond approach and we needed such a quality talent in Green Bay. His record as an accomplished WR is before us, and maybe the quiet confines of Green Bay was what may have worked.

The way it is we can only speculate one way or the other, but my opinion is that it would have been better to ink him and wait and see how he reacted. The actual fact on this matter or topic, is that TT doesn't have it in his mind to win this season, so that's what we were really up against when TT could have gone out and got T.O.

I don't care if the entire forum opposes me on this issue. I wanted T.O. in Green Bay not Dallas. That is my position on T.O. and I bet he lights it up this season in Dallas. He is not in a position with HC Bill Parcells to screw up as he has in the past, and the same constraints could have been placed on him with us.

We needed T.O. on OUR roster.I want the Packers to win and T.O. would have served that objective,absolutely.

Besides all that who in "H" are any of us to judge T.O. He certainly is a law abiding citizen. He doesn't carry a gun nor does he lay a beating on the public or harass the police or get accused of sexual assaults.

He just flat out produces points on the board for whomever he plays for.

T.O. and Favre isn't T.O. and McNabb either Shamrockfan.

He flat out produces points and absolutely tears at the cohesiveness and unity of the team. He is a disruptive force as strong as any in the NFL. He WANTED to play with McNabb. What makes you think he would be any better behaved with Favre? McNabb in 2004 was as good a QB as Favre in 2004, and better than what we saw from Favre in 2005. Favre WILL throw some ill-advised passes, its in his nature. He has a bond with Driver, and would likely look to Driver in situations that Owens would think HE should get the ball. Those are the kinds of things that turned Owens against McNabb iin 2004. If he tried to show up an icon like Favre, as he did with McNabb, it would tear the team at its core.

The Packers will be a very young team, with a very new coaching staff. Owens is the last thing they need as an example and as a headache, in my opinion. You seem to think Owens would make a difference, so do I. But I think the sum total of that diffeence would be detrimental to the Packers, both short term and long.

I don't believe it is speculation to think that Ownes would act in GB they way he has for the last 5 or 6 years in SF and Philadelphia. I think Parcells is one of the few coaches that is accepted as abrasive enough to deal with him. Parcells can get awaay with saying and doiing what other coaches might want to but would be criticized for. Parcells is accepted as a sometimes insensitive, politically incorrect, abrasive, yet successful coach. The Packer staff would not have that luxury, and you probably need it to deal with Owens.

[Patler]

Can somebody remind me of the last time a wide receiver was the difference between winning the super bowl or just getting close?

Here you go. Check out who the leading receiver was for the Eagles.It's at the bottom of the recap.

Super Bowl XXXIX

New England 24, Philadelphia 21

Alltel Stadium Jacksonville, Florida February 6, 2005
Attendance: 78,125 MVP: Deion Branch, WR, New England

Tom Brady's passing and Corey Dillon's running helped New England win its third Super Bowl.

Deion Branch had 11 receptions for 133 yards and the Patriots’ defense forced four turnovers en route to becoming the eighth team to post consecutive Super Bowl titles. The Patriots matched the Dallas Cowboys (XXVII, XXVIII, and XXX) as the only teams with three Super Bowl victories in the span of four seasons.

The Eagles threatened first, driving to the Patriots’ 8 late in the first quarter. On first down, Mike Vrabel sacked Donovan McNabb for a 16-yard loss and, after a penalty overturned an interception, Rodney Harrison stepped in front of a pass for an interception at the Patriots’ 4.

Early in the second quarter the Eagles drove 81 yards, keyed by Todd Pinkston’s 40-yard catch, and capped by McNabb’s 6-yard touchdown pass to L.J. Smith on third-and-goal for a 7-0 lead.

The Patriots responded by driving to the Eagles’ 4, but Tom Brady fumbled on a fake handoff attempt and Darwin Walker recovered. Later in the quarter, a 29-yard punt by Dirk Johnson allowed the Patriots to drive just 37 yards, keyed by Branch’s 7-yard catch on third-and-3, and capped by Brady’s pass to David Givens on the right side of the end zone to tie the game with 1:10 left in the half.

New England began the second half with a 9-play, 69-yard drive, including four receptions, two on third down, by Branch, and capped by Vrabel’s 2-yard catch.

The Eagles put together a 10-play, 74-yard drive later in the third quarter, keyed by Brian Westbrook’s 4-yard catch on third-and-3, and followed on the next play by his 10-yard touchdown catch to tie the game.

On the ensuing drive, Kevin Faulk caught screen passes of 13 and 14 yards, and had a 12-yard run, and Corey Dillon capped the possession with a 2-yard run with 13:44 remaining for a 21-14 lead.

The Patriots’ defense forced a three-and-out, and Branch’s 19-yard catch set up Adam Vinatieri’s 22-yard field goal with 8:40 to play. Tedy Bruschi intercepted McNabb’s pass at the Patriots’ 24 with 7:20 remaining.

The Eagles forced a punt, and beginning at their own 21 with 5:40 to play, needed 13 plays to drive 79 yards, capped by McNabb’s 30-yard touchdown pass on a post-pattern to Greg Lewis with 1:48 to play.

Christian Fauria recovered the onside kick, but the Eagles’ defense forced a punt. Dexter Reid downed Josh Miller’s 32-yard punt at the Eagles’ 4 with 46 seconds left, and Harrison intercepted McNabb’s pass three plays later to clinch the title.

Brady was 23 of 33 for 236 yards and two touchdowns. Branch earned MVP honors with his Super Bowl-record-tying 11 catches.

McNabb was 30 of 51 for 357 yards and three touchdowns, with three interceptions. Terrell Owens had nine receptions for 122 yards.

Woodbuck, you just made HIS argument for him. As good as Owens was in that game, Philadelphia still lost. In other words, he was not the difference between winning and getting close, they simply got close and did not win.

[woodbuck27]

Can somebody remind me of the last time a wide receiver was the difference between winning the super bowl or just getting close?

Here you go. Check out who the leading receiver was for the Eagles.It's at the bottom of the recap.

Super Bowl XXXIX

New England 24, Philadelphia 21

Alltel Stadium Jacksonville, Florida February 6, 2005
Attendance: 78,125 MVP: Deion Branch, WR, New England

Tom Brady's passing and Corey Dillon's running helped New England win its third Super Bowl.

Deion Branch had 11 receptions for 133 yards and the Patriots’ defense forced four turnovers en route to becoming the eighth team to post consecutive Super Bowl titles. The Patriots matched the Dallas Cowboys (XXVII, XXVIII, and XXX) as the only teams with three Super Bowl victories in the span of four seasons.

The Eagles threatened first, driving to the Patriots’ 8 late in the first quarter. On first down, Mike Vrabel sacked Donovan McNabb for a 16-yard loss and, after a penalty overturned an interception, Rodney Harrison stepped in front of a pass for an interception at the Patriots’ 4.

Early in the second quarter the Eagles drove 81 yards, keyed by Todd Pinkston’s 40-yard catch, and capped by McNabb’s 6-yard touchdown pass to L.J. Smith on third-and-goal for a 7-0 lead.

The Patriots responded by driving to the Eagles’ 4, but Tom Brady fumbled on a fake handoff attempt and Darwin Walker recovered. Later in the quarter, a 29-yard punt by Dirk Johnson allowed the Patriots to drive just 37 yards, keyed by Branch’s 7-yard catch on third-and-3, and capped by Brady’s pass to David Givens on the right side of the end zone to tie the game with 1:10 left in the half.

New England began the second half with a 9-play, 69-yard drive, including four receptions, two on third down, by Branch, and capped by Vrabel’s 2-yard catch.

The Eagles put together a 10-play, 74-yard drive later in the third quarter, keyed by Brian Westbrook’s 4-yard catch on third-and-3, and followed on the next play by his 10-yard touchdown catch to tie the game.

On the ensuing drive, Kevin Faulk caught screen passes of 13 and 14 yards, and had a 12-yard run, and Corey Dillon capped the possession with a 2-yard run with 13:44 remaining for a 21-14 lead.

The Patriots’ defense forced a three-and-out, and Branch’s 19-yard catch set up Adam Vinatieri’s 22-yard field goal with 8:40 to play. Tedy Bruschi intercepted McNabb’s pass at the Patriots’ 24 with 7:20 remaining.

The Eagles forced a punt, and beginning at their own 21 with 5:40 to play, needed 13 plays to drive 79 yards, capped by McNabb’s 30-yard touchdown pass on a post-pattern to Greg Lewis with 1:48 to play.

Christian Fauria recovered the onside kick, but the Eagles’ defense forced a punt. Dexter Reid downed Josh Miller’s 32-yard punt at the Eagles’ 4 with 46 seconds left, and Harrison intercepted McNabb’s pass three plays later to clinch the title.

Brady was 23 of 33 for 236 yards and two touchdowns. Branch earned MVP honors with his Super Bowl-record-tying 11 catches.

McNabb was 30 of 51 for 357 yards and three touchdowns, with three interceptions. Terrell Owens had nine receptions for 122 yards.

Woodbuck, you just made HIS argument for him. As good as Owens was in that game, Philadelphia still lost. In other words, he was not the difference between winning and getting close, they simply got close and did not win.

Oh come on now man. You are over the top there. Here is the question.

Can somebody remind me of the last time a wide receiver was the difference between winning the super bowl or just getting close?

The winning team was the Pat's and Deion Branch, WR, New England was the Games MVP.

The score was 'in fact' close at 24-21 Pat's and Eagles WR Terrell Owens pressed himself into service, and playing still injured, played outstanding in almost helping his team to vicory.

I clearly have demonstrated that a WR can make a diference in helping his team win a Super Bowl and also . . . almost win or get close to winning in the same Super Bowl.

shamrockfan . . waaaaannnnkkkkk !!

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm not sure what the argument is here, but it's clear that teams don't get to the Super Bowl without excellent receivers.

[retailguy]

I'm not sure what the argument is here, but it's clear that teams don't get to the Super Bowl without excellent receivers.

What about the 2000 ravens that won the super bowl behind the eye popping 655 yards (entire season) of Quadry Ismail? The only one on the team with more receiving yards - Shannon Sharpe the TE with 810.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ok, if you have the best defense in the history of the NFL, you can win Super Bowl without much offense.

[Patler]

Oh come on now man. You are over the top there. Here is the question.

Can somebody remind me of the last time a wide receiver was the difference between winning the super bowl or just getting close?

The winning team was the Pat's and Deion Branch, WR, New England was the Games MVP.

The score was 'in fact' close at 24-21 Pat's and Eagles WR Terrell Owens pressed himself into service, and playing still injured, played outstanding in almost helping his team to vicory.

I clearly have demonstrated that a WR can make a diference in helping his team win a Super Bowl and also . . . almost win or get close to winning in the same Super Bowl.

shamrockfan . . waaaaannnnkkkkk !!

Sorry Woodbuck, you just CONFIRMED that the wide receivers were NOT the difference makers, and you demonstrated absolutely NOTHING!.

Owens - 9 receptions for 122 yards, 13.6 avg., 0 TDs
Branch - 11 receptions for 133 yards, 12.1 avg., 0 TDs

You aren't suggesting that Branch's 2 receptions for 11 yards was the difference, are you? It simply shows the receivers are NOT the difference makers, in spit of Branch being MVP.

In youR immortal words, "woodbuck27 . . waaaaannnnkkkkk !!"

[woodbuck27]

Oh come on now man. You are over the top there. Here is the question.

Can somebody remind me of the last time a wide receiver was the difference between winning the super bowl or just getting close?

The winning team was the Pat's and Deion Branch, WR, New England was the Games MVP.

The score was 'in fact' close at 24-21 Pat's and Eagles WR Terrell Owens pressed himself into service, and playing still injured, played outstanding in almost helping his team to vicory.

I clearly have demonstrated that a WR can make a diference in helping his team win a Super Bowl and also . . . almost win or get close to winning in the same Super Bowl.

shamrockfan . . waaaaannnnkkkkk !!

Sorry Woodbuck, you just CONFIRMED that the wide receivers were NOT the difference makers, and you demonstrated absolutely NOTHING!.

Owens - 9 receptions for 122 yards, 13.6 avg., 0 TDs
Branch - 11 receptions for 133 yards, 12.1 avg., 0 TDs

You aren't suggesting that Branch's 2 receptions for 11 yards was the difference, are you? It simply shows the receivers are NOT the difference makers, in spit of Branch being MVP.

In youR immortal words, "woodbuck27 . . waaaaannnnkkkkk !!"

Deion Branch acounted for 133 yards of Tom Brady's total of 236 yards through the air, or 56.4% of the Pat's passing yards in that Super Bowl win. Clearly those 133 yards and Branch's fine day with timely catch's, made a difference in the Pat's victory. Deion Branch was outstanding that day. Didn't you see that game shamrockfan?

Deion Branch was deemed the MVP of Super Bowl XXXIX. Because he was the MVP, he must have made an outstanding contribution to New Englands victory whether you agree with 'that fact' or not shamrockfan. That was a fact. He made 11 catch's in that game and all other players ( or 6 of them) made a total of only one more or 12 catch's. You do the math on that comparison.

On the other side clearly T.O. had the best day. Considering he was playing not in top form health wise. Any day a receiver goes over 100 yards it's considered a fine game for that WR. Well 122 yards in 9 catch's fits that billing. The closest any other Eagle receiver was to T.O.'s performance was Todd Pinkston, with 4 catch's and 82 yards.

I'm not going to get dragged into one of your circle jerk, twisting arguments shamrockfan. You can argue with semantics all you please, but you are losing this one shamrockfan, because of a man named Deion Branch in Super bowl XXXIX.

Again, I have clearly demonstrated that a WR can be a difference maker in a Super Bowl game, and whenever that WR is voted as the Super Bowl MVP, some people obviously agreed with what I saw in that game. Deion Branch deserved his MVP. He was the difference maker in many fans eyes and in those who awarded him his MVP.

Again shamrockfan. Did you miss that game?

[PackerPro42]

You can't ignore T.O's talent but you also can't ignore his attitude. I think dallas was the perfect place for him because I think Parcells can keep him under rap.

[NewsBruin]

If it were the Holmgren years, I'd have pushed for TO on the team. But right now, I think we need team chemistry and lockerroom optimism more than we need great skill players.

I love Favre, and I think he's an ageless wonder at his position, but I don't know how much he wants to be the leader and Chief Image Rehabber in Green Bay's lockerroom yet again. I honestly think the seasons from Rhodes-present and pressure from being The Man for so long have worn down his desire to do more than do his job and have fun with his teammates.

We did a real good job with Andre Rison in our Super Bowl season. I remember sitting in a dorm room with some Cowboy fans, saying, "Pick up Rison? That would be a deal with the devil right there." And I remember, if for a little while, that Bad Moon looked like he was having fun on the field, including the first touchdown in the Superdome. Shoot, he went from no team risking a contract on him to getting a (I can't remember the terms) 3-year deal with the Chiefs afterward.

But that atmosphere was so different. Brett was an upbeat party guy, and everyone was along for the ride. Since then, we've seen the nagging toll of Chmura, Winters, (proud Baylor Bear) Santana Dotson, Reggie, LeRoy Butler, Freeman, McKenzie, Cletidus, Big Gilbert, and Javon's exits from the team. Rhodes turned our team into Animal House, and Sherman's era polarized people's view of the offense (and by extension, Brett) as the only thing that mattered.

We needed to bring back team unity and a happy lockerroom. What I wanted most, and what I was really impressed by with our draft, is that we picked up wide-eyed, enthusiastic players who think they can win, and who like the organization, especially on defense. For that reason, I was at peace with our decisions to let Javon go and sign A.J. Hawk over the freakish Verron Davis.

I honestly like TO, and it breaks my heart that someone as talented as he is has such a low opinion of his own worth. He can't stand the thought of not being good enough, he fears that people he cares about will abandon him, and he surrounds himself with a chief enabler (next question) who tells him that nobody respects, understands, or appreciates him. There's not enough money, receptions, touchdowns, wins, record celebrations, or public statements of support that can fill the hole in his heart.

If it were another time in Packer history, I'd say we could risk TO, but since Donnovan McNabb, Blessed With The Patience of Job, was unable to keep him co-existing with the team, I don't see how Brett could do that singlehandedly. I don't think our team or staff is established enough to handle that, and I don't think the town would much like everything TO would say about it when his low self-esteem started acting up again.

Maybe with a new environment, new friends, and a new coach, he'll work out, but I don't want to risk it here.

[NewsBruin]

P.S. Andre Rison is now trying out for arena teams.

[Patler]

Deion Branch acounted for 133 yards of Tom Brady's total of 236 yards through the air, or 56.4% of the passing yards in that Super Bowl win. Clearly those 133 yards and Branch's fine day with timely catch's, made a difference in the Pat's victory. Deion Branch was outstanding that day.Didn't you see that game shamrockfan?

On the other side clearly T.O. had the best day. Considering he was playing not in top form health wise. Any day a receiver goes over 100 yards it's considered a fine game for that WR. Well 122 yards in 9 catch's fits that billing. The cosest any other Eagle receiver was to T.O.'s performance was Todd Pinkston with 4 catch's and 82 yards.

I'm not going to get dragged into one of your circle jerk, twisting arguments shamrockfan.

Again I have clearly demonstrated that a WR can be a difference maker in a Super Bowl game, and whenever that WR is voted as the Super bowl MVP some people obviously agreed with what I saw in that game. Deion Branch deserved his MVP. He was the difference maker in many fans eyes and in those who awarded him his MVP.

Yes, I saw the game, and I thought Owens was the better receiver.
I disagree that you have shown anything. Was Branch a difference maker when Owens had a game equally as good or even better?

Branch got the MVP simply because he set the Super Bowl record for receptions. His yardage was nothing spectacular, especially for the number of catches he had. No touchdowns? How impressive was that???

[Homer Jay]

Dieon Branch had a great game in that super bowl, no doubt about it. But, would the Patriots have made it to the Super Bowl, let alone win it, without Branch? I think the answer is a resounding yes. Could they have replaced Tom Brady? no. Tedy Bruschi? No. Dieon Branch was an important part of why the Patriots got there, but he wasn't a difference maker.

TO, had a great super bowl too. But, don't forget, the Eagles breezed through the playoffs without him, and, despite his great game, lost the game with him.

[woodbuck27]

Deion Branch acounted for 133 yards of Tom Brady's total of 236 yards through the air, or 56.4% of the passing yards in that Super Bowl win. Clearly those 133 yards and Branch's fine day with timely catch's, made a difference in the Pat's victory. Deion Branch was outstanding that day.Didn't you see that game shamrockfan?

On the other side clearly T.O. had the best day. Considering he was playing not in top form health wise. Any day a receiver goes over 100 yards it's considered a fine game for that WR. Well 122 yards in 9 catch's fits that billing. The cosest any other Eagle receiver was to T.O.'s performance was Todd Pinkston with 4 catch's and 82 yards.

I'm not going to get dragged into one of your circle jerk, twisting arguments shamrockfan.

Again I have clearly demonstrated that a WR can be a difference maker in a Super Bowl game, and whenever that WR is voted as the Super bowl MVP some people obviously agreed with what I saw in that game. Deion Branch deserved his MVP. He was the difference maker in many fans eyes and in those who awarded him his MVP.

Yes, I saw the game, and I thought Owens was the better receiver.
I disagree that you have shown anything. Was Branch a difference maker when Owens had a game equally as good or even better?

Branch got the MVP simply because he set the Super Bowl record for receptions. His yardage was nothing spectacular, especially for the number of catches he had. No touchdowns? How impressive was that???

"Branch got the MVP simply because he set the Super Bowl record for receptions." shamrockfan 'the (I wonder) argument man'

There YOU go ! You make my case for me - THANKS shamrockfan. Now imagine how impressed we would all be, if he had hauled in a touchdown pass. NOT ! Not. . if you saw that game.

The way he played it wasn't - all that mattered. He certainly helped big time to set things up to score. You can't paint a house before you purchase the paint. Eh !

Setting the ALL time record for receptions (tieing that record), would be considered a difference maker to most people. If your not one of them, I appreciate that for whatever is important to you man. Whatever floats YOUR boat, shamrockfan.

ref: circle jerk arguments

[Homer Jay]

I'd say the 4 forced turnovers by the Patriot defense was more of a difference maker than 11 catches. Branch had a big game, but he wasn't the deciding factor.