"They've really got themselves a defensive staff"

[Waldo]

He's already a dominant pass rusher. There is no doubt that he can be incredible in a 3-4. Why wouldn't he be? He already does all of those same things on regular basis and is quite good at them.

Gholston is a rookie. And he's no where near Peppers league in terms of athletic ability. Not even in close.

Peppers = 4.74 40, 22 bench reps
Gholston = 4.67 40, 37 bench reps (most at the combine)

The differences: Peppers is 300 lbs and Gholson is 264 lbs. Gholston is a workout warrior. He looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane. It's possible Peppers would be a fantastic 3-4 OLB, but it's also possible that he wouldn't be nearly as good as you think he'd be.

Speed + strength != athletic ability. Remember when we brought in that world class sprinter at receiver. How did that pan out?

He's in the pro football HOF (James Lofton). Dallas brought in the worlds fastest man to play WR, he too is in the HOF (Bob Hayes).

[Noodle]

Um, I thought Hayes was up for senior committee consideration this year because he didn't make the HOF during regular voting.

Anyway, the point is that the NFL scrap heap is littered with straight-line super speedsters. Remember Renaldo Skeets Nehemiah? Jim Hines? Tyson Gay? Billy Schroeder?

[Partial]

He's already a dominant pass rusher. There is no doubt that he can be incredible in a 3-4. Why wouldn't he be? He already does all of those same things on regular basis and is quite good at them.

Gholston is a rookie. And he's no where near Peppers league in terms of athletic ability. Not even in close.

Peppers = 4.74 40, 22 bench reps
Gholston = 4.67 40, 37 bench reps (most at the combine)

The differences: Peppers is 300 lbs and Gholson is 264 lbs. Gholston is a workout warrior. He looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane. It's possible Peppers would be a fantastic 3-4 OLB, but it's also possible that he wouldn't be nearly as good as you think he'd be.

Speed + strength != athletic ability. Remember when we brought in that world class sprinter at receiver. How did that pan out?

He's in the pro football HOF (James Lofton). Dallas brought in the worlds fastest man to play WR, he too is in the HOF (Bob Hayes).

I was referring to the sprinter from two year ago(?). Tyson Gay also had a tryout with the Cowboys I believe, but I could be thinking of someone else.

[Noodle]

Partial, you're thinking of Leo Bookman, I think. Former KU track star. Didn't last long.

[Zool]

Partial, you're thinking of Leo Bookman, I think. Former KU track star. Didn't last long.

He really went downhill after football didnt work out. He's a super at an apartment building somewhere.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He's already a dominant pass rusher. There is no doubt that he can be incredible in a 3-4. Why wouldn't he be? He already does all of those same things on regular basis and is quite good at them.

Gholston is a rookie. And he's no where near Peppers league in terms of athletic ability. Not even in close.

Peppers = 4.74 40, 22 bench reps
Gholston = 4.67 40, 37 bench reps (most at the combine)

The differences: Peppers is 300 lbs and Gholson is 264 lbs. Gholston is a workout warrior. He looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane. It's possible Peppers would be a fantastic 3-4 OLB, but it's also possible that he wouldn't be nearly as good as you think he'd be.

Speed + strength != athletic ability. Remember when we brought in that world class sprinter at receiver. How did that pan out?

My god, are you that dense?

Speed...Gholston is faster. Strength..Gholston is stronger. Clearly, BY YOUR OWN DEFINTION gholston has more athletic ability.

My definition? I said they're not equal. Clearly you're not a very bright person.

I haven't seen Gholston play basketball on a final four team. I haven't seen Gholston win state championships as both a Sprinter and a triple jumper in the south. He may have, I have no idea, but even so, then he is a tremendous athlete, not a tremendous athlete with unreal size and stature.

You said Peppers is a better athlete. By your stated formula Gholston is clearly superior.

What you have seen: Who cares. Peppers was a role player on the UNC bball team. A role player because they had so few players, especially ones that had some physicality.

[Partial]

He's already a dominant pass rusher. There is no doubt that he can be incredible in a 3-4. Why wouldn't he be? He already does all of those same things on regular basis and is quite good at them.

Gholston is a rookie. And he's no where near Peppers league in terms of athletic ability. Not even in close.

Peppers = 4.74 40, 22 bench reps
Gholston = 4.67 40, 37 bench reps (most at the combine)

The differences: Peppers is 300 lbs and Gholson is 264 lbs. Gholston is a workout warrior. He looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane. It's possible Peppers would be a fantastic 3-4 OLB, but it's also possible that he wouldn't be nearly as good as you think he'd be.

Speed + strength != athletic ability. Remember when we brought in that world class sprinter at receiver. How did that pan out?

My god, are you that dense?

Speed...Gholston is faster. Strength..Gholston is stronger. Clearly, BY YOUR OWN DEFINTION gholston has more athletic ability.

My definition? I said they're not equal. Clearly you're not a very bright person.

I haven't seen Gholston play basketball on a final four team. I haven't seen Gholston win state championships as both a Sprinter and a triple jumper in the south. He may have, I have no idea, but even so, then he is a tremendous athlete, not a tremendous athlete with unreal size and stature.

You said Peppers is a better athlete. By your stated formula Gholston is clearly superior.

What you have seen: Who cares. Peppers was a role player on the UNC bball team. A role player because they had so few players, especially ones that had some physicality.

Where did I state a formula? What the heck are you talking about?

Role player? Sure, maybe, but I'll gladly take a guy doing the dirty work. He came up with some huge games including 18 points, 10 boards in the NCAA tournament. Hard to deny he was a key player.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He's already a dominant pass rusher. There is no doubt that he can be incredible in a 3-4. Why wouldn't he be? He already does all of those same things on regular basis and is quite good at them.

Gholston is a rookie. And he's no where near Peppers league in terms of athletic ability. Not even in close.

Peppers = 4.74 40, 22 bench reps
Gholston = 4.67 40, 37 bench reps (most at the combine)

The differences: Peppers is 300 lbs and Gholson is 264 lbs. Gholston is a workout warrior. He looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane. It's possible Peppers would be a fantastic 3-4 OLB, but it's also possible that he wouldn't be nearly as good as you think he'd be.

Speed + strength != athletic ability. Remember when we brought in that world class sprinter at receiver. How did that pan out?

My god, are you that dense?

Speed...Gholston is faster. Strength..Gholston is stronger. Clearly, BY YOUR OWN DEFINTION gholston has more athletic ability.

My definition? I said they're not equal. Clearly you're not a very bright person.

I haven't seen Gholston play basketball on a final four team. I haven't seen Gholston win state championships as both a Sprinter and a triple jumper in the south. He may have, I have no idea, but even so, then he is a tremendous athlete, not a tremendous athlete with unreal size and stature.

You said Peppers is a better athlete. By your stated formula Gholston is clearly superior.

What you have seen: Who cares. Peppers was a role player on the UNC bball team. A role player because they had so few players, especially ones that had some physicality.

Where did I state a formula? What the heck are you talking about?

Role player? Sure, maybe, but I'll gladly take a guy doing the dirty work. He came up with some huge games including 18 points, 10 boards in the NCAA tournament. Hard to deny he was a key player.

Why don't you just scan the top of this page where you wrote, "Speed + strength != athletic ability."

Role player: you are switching the argument. No one is debating the merits of his role or his contributions.

The two squads he played on were horrific in terms of talent. Only one player was even marginal in the NBA, B. Haywood.

BTW, you can keep wikiing all you want, but that 18 point game (which was actually 21 points ) was against a very average PSU squad...and it was a loss. UNC losing to PSU. That should tell you all you need to know.

Funny how stats don't matter with Redd, but they do for peppers on a losing team.

[Bossman641]

He's already a dominant pass rusher. There is no doubt that he can be incredible in a 3-4. Why wouldn't he be? He already does all of those same things on regular basis and is quite good at them.

Gholston is a rookie. And he's no where near Peppers league in terms of athletic ability. Not even in close.

Peppers = 4.74 40, 22 bench reps
Gholston = 4.67 40, 37 bench reps (most at the combine)

The differences: Peppers is 300 lbs and Gholson is 264 lbs. Gholston is a workout warrior. He looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane. It's possible Peppers would be a fantastic 3-4 OLB, but it's also possible that he wouldn't be nearly as good as you think he'd be.

Speed + strength != athletic ability. Remember when we brought in that world class sprinter at receiver. How did that pan out?

My god, are you that dense?

Speed...Gholston is faster. Strength..Gholston is stronger. Clearly, BY YOUR OWN DEFINTION gholston has more athletic ability.

My definition? I said they're not equal. Clearly you're not a very bright person.

I haven't seen Gholston play basketball on a final four team. I haven't seen Gholston win state championships as both a Sprinter and a triple jumper in the south. He may have, I have no idea, but even so, then he is a tremendous athlete, not a tremendous athlete with unreal size and stature.

You said Peppers is a better athlete. By your stated formula Gholston is clearly superior.

What you have seen: Who cares. Peppers was a role player on the UNC bball team. A role player because they had so few players, especially ones that had some physicality.

Where did I state a formula? What the heck are you talking about?

Role player? Sure, maybe, but I'll gladly take a guy doing the dirty work. He came up with some huge games including 18 points, 10 boards in the NCAA tournament. Hard to deny he was a key player.

Why don't you just scan the top of this page where you wrote, "Speed + strength != athletic ability."

Role player: you are switching the argument. No one is debating the merits of his role or his contributions.

The two squads he played on were horrific in terms of talent. Only one player was even marginal in the NBA, B. Haywood.

BTW, you can keep wikiing all you want, but that 18 point game (which was actually 21 points ) was against a very average PSU squad...and it was a loss. UNC losing to PSU. That should tell you all you need to know.

Funny how stats don't matter with Redd, but they do for peppers on a losing team.

TB, I think Partial's equation was supposed to mean Speed and Strength is not equal to athletic ability.

I don't agree it, because IMO Peppers is more of a "speed and strength" guy then a fluid "athlete." And yea, Peppers was nothing special as a basketball player.

[Partial]

(speed) speed (plus) + (strength) strength (not equal) != (athletic ability) athletic ability.

What is so hard to comprehend about that?

We're not discussing the merits of his skills on the basketball floor. The fact he was a good enough athlete to play college basketball on a team loaded with talent (I don't buy your argument) says plenty, as well as his ability to win state championships in Sprinting and in the triple jump.

His willingness to be a role player shows hes comfortable checking his ego at the door and be a great team player. I would love to take a potentially dominating player who will sacrifice their personal accomplishments for the betterment of the team!

OK Bossman, I guess being a very accomplished three sport athlete makes him just a speed guy His accomplishments in pass coverage (read: fluid athlete) are well documented, so I'm not sure what you're expecting.

He's not going to be expected to cover WRs. He's going to be expected to man a zone, or cover a TE. I think he would do just fine either way, so long as the tight end isn't a Gates type that every LB struggles with.

[Lurker64]

I think part of what's got you confused Tyrone is that it's common computer science parlance to use the string "!=" as shorthand for "is not equal to" or "doesn't equal."

So what Partial is saying is that "Strength and Speed is not the same as athleticism", which, while technically true, ignores the fact that Strength and Speed are certainly important parts of "what makes up athleticism."

Really, athleticism is a combination of strength, flexibility, straight line speed, lateral speed, explosiveness, change of direction ability, and fluidity. Gholston, interestingly, is impressive at nearly all of the above for a man his size. He's not a good OLB though.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

(speed) speed (plus) + (strength) strength (not equal) != (athletic ability) athletic ability.

What is so hard to comprehend about that?

We're not discussing the merits of his skills on the basketball floor. The fact he was a good enough athlete to play college basketball on a team loaded with talent (I don't buy your argument) says plenty, as well as his ability to win state championships in Sprinting and in the triple jump.

His willingness to be a role player shows hes comfortable checking his ego at the door and be a great team player. I would love to take a potentially dominating player who will sacrifice their personal accomplishments for the betterment of the team!

OK Bossman, I guess being a very accomplished three sport athlete makes him just a speed guy His accomplishments in pass coverage (read: fluid athlete) are well documented, so I'm not sure what you're expecting.

He's not going to be expected to cover WRs. He's going to be expected to man a zone, or cover a TE. I think he would do just fine either way, so long as the tight end isn't a Gates type that every LB struggles with.

Where did you say not equal? this (!=) is the universally understood for not equal?

[Bossman641]

(speed) speed (plus) + (strength) strength (not equal) != (athletic ability) athletic ability.

What is so hard to comprehend about that?

We're not discussing the merits of his skills on the basketball floor. The fact he was a good enough athlete to play college basketball on a team loaded with talent (I don't buy your argument) says plenty, as well as his ability to win state championships in Sprinting and in the triple jump.

His willingness to be a role player shows hes comfortable checking his ego at the door and be a great team player. I would love to take a potentially dominating player who will sacrifice their personal accomplishments for the betterment of the team!

OK Bossman, I guess being a very accomplished three sport athlete makes him just a speed guy His accomplishments in pass coverage (read: fluid athlete) are well documented, so I'm not sure what you're expecting.

He's not going to be expected to cover WRs. He's going to be expected to man a zone, or cover a TE. I think he would do just fine either way, so long as the tight end isn't a Gates type that every LB struggles with.

Please tell me about his "well-documented" accomplishments in pass coverage. I'm not saying he can't cover a zone, I just don't get where you keep coming up with BS that he dropped into coverage all the time. I disagree with you. He dropped into coverage occassionally, but certainly not with any regularity.

His willingness to be a role player shows hes comfortable checking his ego at the door and be a great team player. I would love to take a potentially dominating player who will sacrifice their personal accomplishments for the betterment of the team!

WHAT??

You act like he was an all-world basketball player and CHOSE to be a role player rather than showcase his abilities. He simply wasn't that good at basketball. He had size and bulk with some skills, that's it. I remember watching many of his games. He scored almost exclusively on garbage buckets - putbacks. He wasn't facing guys up or playing with his back to the basket. Those UNC team were led by Cota, Forte, Capel, and Haywood and even those guys were nothing special. Geez, Peppers averaged 4.5 and then 7 points a game. Again - off of garbage buckets. He played bball because it was his first love and I'm assuming (I could be wrong) that UNC told him he could play bball there when they were recruiting him.

Dou you realize how many college athletes were 2 or 3 sport stars in high school? Tons. How many times did we hear about Gilbert Brown being a track star in high school???

[Tyrone Bigguns]

[quote="Tyrone Bigguns"]

(speed) speed (plus) + (strength) strength (not equal) != (athletic ability) athletic ability.

What is so hard to comprehend about that?

We're not discussing the merits of his skills on the basketball floor. The fact he was a good enough athlete to play college basketball on a team loaded with talent (I don't buy your argument) says plenty, as well as his ability to win state championships in Sprinting and in the triple jump.

His willingness to be a role player shows hes comfortable checking his ego at the door and be a great team player. I would love to take a potentially dominating player who will sacrifice their personal accomplishments for the betterment of the team!

OK Bossman, I guess being a very accomplished three sport athlete makes him just a speed guy His accomplishments in pass coverage (read: fluid athlete) are well documented, so I'm not sure what you're expecting.

He's not going to be expected to cover WRs. He's going to be expected to man a zone, or cover a TE. I think he would do just fine either way, so long as the tight end isn't a Gates type that every LB struggles with.

Where did you say not equal? this (!=) is the universally understood for not equal?

You might converse in a language understood by all.

Good enough? LOL The reason he was on the squad is that they were devoid of talent. That is the reason ron curry was on it as well. You don't know bball..and certainly not college bball. When UNC puts out one pro out of 2 years..that is terrible. That squad was terrible cause Gut couldn't recruit cos other coaches used his age against him. Then, the hired Matt Doherty and he started in 00 and lasted 3 years.

Talented: Like whom? Who exactly was good on those squads? They had a bunch of white stiffs playing PF..that is why he could play at all. Kris Lang anyone. Brian Bersticker. Joe Everett. Matt Laczkowski

Those teams were devoid of talent and big men.

Those squads had 3 decent jr/sr players: ed cota, jeff capel and haywood. The rest of the team was stiffs. The only other decent player on those squads was a young knucklehead named joe forte who couldn't make it in the NBA as well. Forte was the high school teammate of a guy who was thought to have attitude problems worse than him..Keith Bogans..who has managed to carve out a nice career.

Yep, and then the great UNC 01-02 squad..full of talent went 8-20.

Many football players could be role players. That isn't any sort of accomplishment. And, many bball players could play football as reserves.

Ego: Oh, lord. You just make it up as you go along.

Accomplished in 3 sports? Say what. Being good in high school isn't being an accomplished athlete. If that is the case, there are 1000s of accomplished athletes.

And, now you backpedal about him covering TEs, etc. Peppers never drops into coverage. That is a joke. Whether he can do it is another question, but you haven't seen him do it.

[Bossman641]

Please tell me about his "well-documented" accomplishments in pass coverage. I'm not saying he can't cover a zone, I just don't get where you keep coming up with BS that he dropped into coverage all the time. I disagree with you. He dropped into coverage occassionally, but certainly not with any regularity.

Quote:
His willingness to be a role player shows hes comfortable checking his ego at the door and be a great team player. I would love to take a potentially dominating player who will sacrifice their personal accomplishments for the betterment of the team!
WHAT??

You act like he was an all-world basketball player and CHOSE to be a role player rather than showcase his abilities. He simply wasn't that good at basketball. He had size and bulk with some skills, that's it. I remember watching many of his games. He scored almost exclusively on garbage buckets - putbacks. He wasn't facing guys up or playing with his back to the basket. Those UNC team were led by Cota, Forte, Capel, and Haywood and even those guys were nothing special. Geez, Peppers averaged 4.5 and then 7 points a game. Again - off of garbage buckets. He played bball because it was his first love and I'm assuming (I could be wrong) that UNC told him he could play bball there when they were recruiting him.

Dou you realize how many college athletes were 2 or 3 sport stars in high school? Tons. How many times did we hear about Gilbert Brown being a track star in high school???

Good enough? LOL The reason he was on the squad is that they were devoid of talent. That is the reason ron curry was on it as well. You don't know bball..and certainly not college bball. When UNC puts out one pro out of 2 years..that is terrible. That squad was terrible cause Gut couldn't recruit cos other coaches used his age against him.

Talented: Like whom? Who exactly was good on those squads? They had a bunch of white stiffs playing PF..that is why he could play at all. Kris Lang anyone. Brian Bersticker. Joe Everett. Matt Laczkowski

Those teams were devoid of talent and big men.

Those squads had 3 decent jr/sr players: ed cota, jeff capel and haywood. The rest of the team was stiffs. The only other decent player on those squads was a young knucklehead named joe forte who couldn't make it in the NBA as well. Forte was the high school teammate of a guy who was thought to have attitude problems worse than him..Keith Bogans..who has managed to carve out a nice career.

Many football players could be role players. That isn't any sort of accomplishment. And, many bball players could play football as reserves.

Ego: Oh, lord. You just make it up as you go along.

Accomplished in 3 sports? Say what. Being good in high school isn't being an accomplished athlete. If that is the case, there are 1000s of accomplished athletes.

And, now you backpedal about him covering TEs, etc. Peppers never drops into coverage. That is a joke. Whether he can do it is another question, but you haven't seen him do it.

LOL. I guess we should have just combined our posts into one mega-post. I forgot how shitty those UNC teams were until I looked up the roster. Ouch.