""WAITING GAME CONTINUES""

[Lurker64]

There's a bit of intellectual dishonesty here, in that people tend to strongy affiliate themselves with "pro-Thompson" or "anti-Thompson" camps and that colors pretty much everything that happens.

The Packers go 13-3, and the Pro-Thompson people see themselves as vindicated, the Anti-Thompson people see this as an anomaly pointing to all the close games they won.

The Packers go 6-10, and the Anti-Thompson people see themselves as vindicated, while the Pro-Thompson people see this as an anomaly, pointing to all the close games they lost.

All in all, I think Thompson is a well above average GM, who's weakest in terms of "signing top free agents" and strongest in the draft. He's a bad public speaker, but a good evaluator of talent. You can win superbowls with Thompson's method, the Steelers and the early Patriots superbowl teams prove it, whether or not Thompson himself is going to be able to pull it off? Who knows.

We have a roster with holes in it, but every roster has holes in it (Pittsburgh, who just won the superbowl, has a terrible offensive line). There is, however, a good core of talent here, insofar as nobody would really be surprised if Green Bay was back in the NFC championship game next year. We have the talent to make games close, and close games are won in a number of ways. A play made here or there, a slight advantage in talent, a slight advantage in coaching, whatever. We're certainly not anywhere close to a team that will blow everybody out every Sunday, but those are few and far between. Given the number of close games they lost last year, I think it won't exactly take a lot in order to turn things around for Green Bay. Since they didn't exactly win any of those close games, I think we probably (*knock on wood*) hit bottom this year. I do think that not only is Thompson not close to being fired, but he's not even close to the hot seat yet. Everything I hear from impartial circles (i.e. informed people, not random packer fans on the internet) is that Thompson's job is as secure as most GMs in the league. Just because some subset of the fans hate you, doesn't mean you're anywhere near the door. Carl Peterson was the GM of the Chiefs for 19 years while the fans hated him the whole time, and the Chiefs are the only other team in the league anywhere close to the Packers in terms of "Fan Oriented".

But who knows? Hindsight is 20/20. If you dig deep into everybody's draft picks and free agent signings, you can make anybody look like an idiot. Pioli drafted Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings... what an idiot...

[Partial]

I would be curious to know what the average margin of victory in the NFL is. 5 points or less is pretty standard I would think. I would say the average is higher because the blow outs will bring it up, but I'd guess most games in the 25%-75% range are settled by ~5 points (just a guess, not at all scientific).

As I have stated numerous times, its convienant to blame the defense that gave up last second points, but its also irresonsible and unfair to not hold any blame to offense for only putting up one touchdown against the vikes, one touchdown against the Titans and Jags, etc.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with Thompson's refusal to pay for FA's if he was a lights out drafter.

So far, he's been a pleasant surprise from Sherman, but he has been far from Ozzie Newsome, if you will.

A great talent evaluator != necessarily equal a great GM. Phil Savage was a horrible GM but he is known within league circles as one of the finest talent evaluators in the league.

[bobblehead]

Loosing 6 games by 5 points or less has NOTHING to do with the general manager. NOTHING. Our biggest need is on the defense. So he spent lots and lots of money on it. ON COACHES.

Compare these two teams for instance over the last 10 years:

Washington Redskins - 10 years = 1 playoff win


Pittsburgh Steelers - 10 years = 11 playoff wins (two super bowls)

Now, google all the Big Name Free Agents Snyder has signed.

Try to do a similar search for the Steelers. I couldnt name one OL on that team. Oh but we all know the Jets OL dont we??

I'm glad he is not signing 36 year olds to 5 year deals and putting them in the top 5 of all salaries on the team.

You forgot to mention all the big name FA's that pittsburg let go to get overpaid....Plaxico, joey porter, forget that guard from last year everyone wanted. The evidence is pretty sharp that the pittsburg model, the TT model, is the best in producing a winner.

[bobblehead]

TT will never be fired... he is a decent talent evaluator, and will continue to bring in enough talent thru the draft to keep the Packers in the 8-8 to 10-6 range... they'll never fire a 10-6 GM.

Carl Peterson never won anything... at least that I can remember; yet, he was a decent GM, kept his KC reasonably competitive, and was never seriously in danger of losing his job... I'm beginning to see TT the same way.

Maybe. Unlike KC, they went deep into the playoffs only a year ago. Personally, I'm O.K. with a GM fielding a team that can get within one pass away of the superbowl. Next time around, maybe that play goes our way.

I look at it this way. He cleaned house his first year and had a very bad year. After that year, he continued to bring in fresh blood, both coaches and players and had two years of steady improvement. Last year was a clearly a step back. The difference between winning and losing is razor thin with all the parity of late, and the Packers were within a hair of winning many of the games they lost. I am going to wait and see if they can get that hair back this year.

One good season with a little bit of magic here and there isn't going to cover the other 3 season of failure.

Besides boiling that game against the Giants down to the interception by Favre shows your lack of football knowledge forgiving loyalty to the Packers. If anything that int showed just how dependent the team was on Favre. Where was the running game? Where was the run defense? Where was the fuck was Al Harris? The defense couldn't get it's ass of the field the entire second half.

He didn't blame the game on that interception and your attempt to characterize it that way shows you are being disingenuous or lack reading comprehension...he said we were one pass away...AS A TEAM...and came up short.

[Lurker64]

I don't think anyone would have a problem with Thompson's refusal to pay for FA's if he was a lights out drafter.

So far, he's been a pleasant surprise from Sherman, but he has been far from Ozzie Newsome, if you will.

A great talent evaluator != necessarily equal a great GM. Phil Savage was a horrible GM but he is known within league circles as one of the finest talent evaluators in the league.

Well, in the 2005 draft that was one of the worst in recent memory, Thompson did manage to select 3 starters, including 1 all-pro (Collins) and a starting QB who likely has many Pro Bowls to come (Rodgers). All in all, that's one of the best drafts that year. I mean, among NFC North teams, only four players drafted in 2005 are still with their respective teams.

Let's take a look at 2006 after next year?

Phil Savage's problems with a GM were basically due to the fact that he would fall in love with guys and spend whatever it took to get them, and basically ended up with no draft picks at all. I don't think Thompson is going to fall down that hole.

[Partial]

Well, in the 2005 draft that was one of the worst in recent memory, Thompson did manage to select 3 starters, including 1 all-pro (Collins) and a starting QB who likely has many Pro Bowls to come (Rodgers). All in all, that's one of the best drafts that year. I mean, among NFC North teams, only four players drafted in 2005 are still with their respective teams.

Let's take a look at 2006 after next year?

Phil Savage's problems with a GM were basically due to the fact that he would fall in love with guys and spend whatever it took to get them, and basically ended up with no draft picks at all. I don't think Thompson is going to fall down that hole.

I agree about Savage. I'm not ready to coin Collins an all-pro yet, as he had one great year, one good year, and two average years in the middle. If he remains surrounded by the level of offensive talent we have, then yes, Rodgers will get to a few pro bowls, but we won't have the money to field an elite defense (unless TT drafts really well and hits on some guys).

I agree that Thompson won't ever fall for a dude and do whatever it takes to get him. That is a good/bad thing. Ron Wolf always said you can't be afraid to make a mistake. If he thinks he can get the next Brett Favre or Tom Brady or premiere DE (in this case OLB Lawrence Taylor), you've got to do whatever it takes to get them imo. Obviously you exercise caution and have to be confident and make sure you're not going to strike out completely, because if you do, you'll lose your job (see the Gary Payton trade costing Harris his job).

[bobblehead]

Its going to be funny when TT trades up to 3/4 to get the second best LT in the draft.....ok, I'm probably pipe dreaming but you heard it here first...unless I'm wrong.

[sheepshead]

Loosing 6 games by 5 points or less has NOTHING to do with the general manager. NOTHING. Our biggest need is on the defense. So he spent lots and lots of money on it. ON COACHES.

Compare these two teams for instance over the last 10 years:

Washington Redskins - 10 years = 1 playoff win


Pittsburgh Steelers - 10 years = 11 playoff wins (two super bowls)

Now, google all the Big Name Free Agents Snyder has signed.

Try to do a similar search for the Steelers. I couldnt name one OL on that team. Oh but we all know the Jets OL dont we??

I'm glad he is not signing 36 year olds to 5 year deals and putting them in the top 5 of all salaries on the team.

You forgot to mention all the big name FA's that pittsburg let go to get overpaid....Plaxico, joey porter, forget that guard from last year everyone wanted. The evidence is pretty sharp that the pittsburg model, the TT model, is the best in producing a winner.

Good Post Script.


Faneca everyone here was drooling over him.

[sharpe1027]

One good season with a little bit of magic here and there isn't going to cover the other 3 season of failure.

Besides boiling that game against the Giants down to the interception by Favre shows your lack of football knowledge forgiving loyalty to the Packers. If anything that int showed just how dependent the team was on Favre. Where was the running game? Where was the run defense? Where was the fuck was Al Harris? The defense couldn't get it's ass of the field the entire second half.

For fucks sake. The point wasn't that the pass lost the game. The point was how close the entire team was to making it. I have always defended Favre for that pass. It was one pass that just got away from him a little bit. The weather was miserable and that out pattern is one of the more difficult passes to make.

How about you take a second to understand the point of what I wrote before calling out my football knowledge and loyalty? Then kindly go stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

[cheesner]

There's a bit of intellectual dishonesty here, in that people tend to strongy affiliate themselves with "pro-Thompson" or "anti-Thompson" camps and that colors pretty much everything that happens.

The Packers go 13-3, and the Pro-Thompson people see themselves as vindicated, the Anti-Thompson people see this as an anomaly pointing to all the close games they won.

The Packers go 6-10, and the Anti-Thompson people see themselves as vindicated, while the Pro-Thompson people see this as an anomaly, pointing to all the close games they lost.

All in all, I think Thompson is a well above average GM, who's weakest in terms of "signing top free agents" and strongest in the draft. He's a bad public speaker, but a good evaluator of talent. You can win superbowls with Thompson's method, the Steelers and the early Patriots superbowl teams prove it, whether or not Thompson himself is going to be able to pull it off? Who knows.

We have a roster with holes in it, but every roster has holes in it (Pittsburgh, who just won the superbowl, has a terrible offensive line). There is, however, a good core of talent here, insofar as nobody would really be surprised if Green Bay was back in the NFC championship game next year. We have the talent to make games close, and close games are won in a number of ways. A play made here or there, a slight advantage in talent, a slight advantage in coaching, whatever. We're certainly not anywhere close to a team that will blow everybody out every Sunday, but those are few and far between. Given the number of close games they lost last year, I think it won't exactly take a lot in order to turn things around for Green Bay. Since they didn't exactly win any of those close games, I think we probably (*knock on wood*) hit bottom this year. I do think that not only is Thompson not close to being fired, but he's not even close to the hot seat yet. Everything I hear from impartial circles (i.e. informed people, not random packer fans on the internet) is that Thompson's job is as secure as most GMs in the league. Just because some subset of the fans hate you, doesn't mean you're anywhere near the door. Carl Peterson was the GM of the Chiefs for 19 years while the fans hated him the whole time, and the Chiefs are the only other team in the league anywhere close to the Packers in terms of "Fan Oriented".

But who knows? Hindsight is 20/20. If you dig deep into everybody's draft picks and free agent signings, you can make anybody look like an idiot. Pioli drafted Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings... what an idiot...

Nice post.

So much time is spent 'defending' your side and 'attacking' the other takes away from intelligent discussion. For me, I lean pro TT but find I have to defend him because the attacks on him are ridiculous falsehoods and often out of line.

TT is trying to make the team better. Although his methods may not be the way someone else would do it, it is a very valid method. I am also of the belief that the core is here. We have a couple of playmakers on offense, and our defense may have a few also. I think improved coaching will make a huge difference on that side of the ball. With even a little improvement by the o-line we can be very dominating on that side of the ball. I am also betting that the parts are mostly in place for Dom to work some wonders with this defense. In about 6 months we will be surprised at how few holes actually needing filling by the draft.

[sharpe1027]

For me, I lean pro TT but find I have to defend him because the attacks on him are ridiculous falsehoods and often out of line.

Yes.

I guess you can call me "pro-TT." My personal view is that I would like to to see how things turn out this year before running him out of town. When I look below the surface of last years record, I see some things that give me some hope for this year.

Like it or not, he is our GM for all of this year. Which, in my book, makes him a Packer.

[sheepshead]

Well, in the 2005 draft that was one of the worst in recent memory, Thompson did manage to select 3 starters, including 1 all-pro (Collins) and a starting QB who likely has many Pro Bowls to come (Rodgers). All in all, that's one of the best drafts that year. I mean, among NFC North teams, only four players drafted in 2005 are still with their respective teams.

Let's take a look at 2006 after next year?

Phil Savage's problems with a GM were basically due to the fact that he would fall in love with guys and spend whatever it took to get them, and basically ended up with no draft picks at all. I don't think Thompson is going to fall down that hole.

I agree about Savage. I'm not ready to coin Collins an all-pro yet, as he had one great year, one good year, and two average years in the middle. If he remains surrounded by the level of offensive talent we have, then yes, Rodgers will get to a few pro bowls, but we won't have the money to field an elite defense (unless TT drafts really well and hits on some guys).

I agree that Thompson won't ever fall for a dude and do whatever it takes to get him. That is a good/bad thing. Ron Wolf always said you can't be afraid to make a mistake. If he thinks he can get the next Brett Favre or Tom Brady or premiere DE (in this case OLB Lawrence Taylor), you've got to do whatever it takes to get them imo. Obviously you exercise caution and have to be confident and make sure you're not going to strike out completely, because if you do, you'll lose your job (see the Gary Payton trade costing Harris his job).

Collins will be an all-pro when collins is an all-pro. Its not your call.

[mraynrand]

Loosing 6 games by 5 points or less has NOTHING to do with the general manager. NOTHING. Our biggest need is on the defense. So he spent lots and lots of money on it. ON COACHES.

Compare these two teams for instance over the last 10 years:

Washington Redskins - 10 years = 1 playoff win


Pittsburgh Steelers - 10 years = 11 playoff wins (two super bowls)

Now, google all the Big Name Free Agents Snyder has signed.

Try to do a similar search for the Steelers. I couldnt name one OL on that team. Oh but we all know the Jets OL dont we??

I'm glad he is not signing 36 year olds to 5 year deals and putting them in the top 5 of all salaries on the team.

Good post. Check out the Eagles as well. I think their forays into FA have been pretty modest. Even Ne, which has relied on some FAs, didn't exactly break the bank to get their guys in there...

[Partial]

Collins will be an all-pro when collins is an all-pro. Its not your call.

Ok, well, in that case, Nick Collins is not an All-Pro, since he hasn't ever been named to an all-pro roster. Stings, doesn't it?

[sheepshead]

Collins will be an all-pro when collins is an all-pro. Its not your call.

Ok, well, in that case, Nick Collins is not an All-Pro, since he hasn't ever been named to an all-pro roster. Stings, doesn't it?

That's exactly my point-God you are both dense and an absolute antagonist.