Packers watching orakpo closely

[Lurker64]

Maybin ran a 4.9ish at the combine I thought.

Otherwise, they look about even, but it does look to me that Orakpo is better laterally judging from the 3 cone drill, which will help him in coverage.

He ran a 4.89 at 225 at the combine and 4.59 at 252 at his pro day, after a considerable workout regimen.

The things to keep in mind are that:
a) Maybin is far from physically maxed out, Orakpo is close to it.
b) Maybin's first step is ridiculous, it's faster than Brown's and more explosive than Orakpo's.
c) Maybin has no injury history, Orakpo has recurring knee problems. He was a starter for 2 years, and missed games in both of them due to that knee.
d) Maybin dropped back into zone coverage frequently at Penn State, and was good at it. He was decisive, got into his zone in a hurry, and could change directions very well to adjust to misdirection. Orakpo was much less fluid and decisive in space, and did less of it in Texas. Orakpo is more indecisive, less aware, and less instinctive in space, he has more to learn in order to play coverage. Maybin has much less to learn, he just has some growing to do.

[Waldo]

You hit on a key word that describes Maybin, decisive. It is a very good trait to have. I noticed that as well about him, and it is a stark contrast, to Orakpo. In fact it is because of Orakpo's lack of that that PFT wrote a piece, basically saying that some scouts that left Orakpo's pro day questioning whether Orakpo was a football player, or just a good athlete going through the motions, that he did not show to be a decisive, instinctive player to scouts.

That is Hawk and Kampman's biggest weakness, and what made Hodge look so good at times. He made up his mind fast, and did it, right or wrong.

[Waldo]

Maybin ran a 4.9ish at the combine I thought.

Otherwise, they look about even, but it does look to me that Orakpo is better laterally judging from the 3 cone drill, which will help him in coverage.

He ran a 4.89 at 225 at the combine and 4.59 at 252 at his pro day, after a considerable workout regimen.

The things to keep in mind are that:
a) Maybin is far from physically maxed out, Orakpo is close to it.
b) Maybin's first step is ridiculous, it's faster than Brown's and more explosive than Orakpo's.
c) Maybin has no injury history, Orakpo has recurring knee problems. He was a starter for 2 years, and missed games in both of them due to that knee.
d) Maybin dropped back into zone coverage frequently at Penn State, and was good at it. He was decisive, got into his zone in a hurry, and could change directions very well to adjust to misdirection. Orakpo was much less fluid and decisive in space, and did less of it in Texas. Orakpo is more indecisive, less aware, and less instinctive in space, he has more to learn in order to play coverage. Maybin has much less to learn, he just has some growing to do.

Maybin's corrected combine time is 4.78. They had to use the hand clocks for Maybin as the electronic times were way off from the stopwatches. NFLDS lists the hand clocks from this combine, they threw out the electronic times because of how inconsistent they were this year. Same as the vert last year, basically the official combine results were garbage. There is no official time from the combine, each team is given 6 times, in addition to any they may clock themselves. Two runs, two hand times and an electronic for each one are provided to the teams. Each has their own method of extracting a time. I'm not sure which one NFLDS uses, but they use the hand clock times for this combine, they were more accurate.

[Lurker64]

I think also the "one year wonder" tag is applied to Maybin, perhaps erroneously. Maybin was born in April of 1988, and came to Penn State in 2006 when he Redshirted, which is reasonable because he was 18 at the time. In the 2007 season, at the age of 19, he still managed to play in every single game on both defense and special teams. His junior year, the most recent one, he finally cracked the starting lineup and he became an all American with 12 sacks and 20 TFL. He didn't dominate before then, because the 2007 season was his very first year after his redshirt year and very few defensive lineman dominate as redshirt freshmen, particularly at 19 years old.

If Maybin had gone back to Penn State and continued to improve, he probably would have been looked at as the very best defensive player in the 2009 or 2010 draft, and a candidate for #1 overall, no joke. If you draft him now, you get him when he's very, very raw but you can pay him much less and get him with a much lower draft pick. Remember, young defensive line guys who are already productive, can become ridiculously productive once they finish growing. If y'all remember correctly, that's why a lot of us wanted Okoye, who's becoming an important part of a very scary Texans Defensive line.

The WOLB is the star, key cog, and most important pass rusher in the 3-4 defense (at least the brand we run) and we don't really have one. It's worth taking a shot on a guy who can be out of this world in a year or two.

[Waldo]

I talk to another scout elsewhere, one rule of thumb he goes by, that he claims others (including most pro team scouts) do as well, is first tape is just as important as the last, especially on the OL and DL. The guys that really are special, who are born to do it, can play from the day they step on campus and look good at a very young age.

You have to question how raw one of the NCAA's most productive rusher's and DE's is. Sure he needs tech work I'm sure, they all do, and he may be a smidge behind the other guys in that arena, but he is still just as productive as they were. How raw can he really be?

[Partial]

See DFOY Orakpo

Maybin does sound like he has a lot of potential. Wouldn't be too upset over that pick, I guess.

[TheCheese]

My guy English had his pro day on the 27th, heres a little update below.

Northern Illinois held its pro day this afternoon at the DeKalb Sports and Recreation Center in front of 15 NFL teams.

Defensive end Larry English ran the 40-yard dash and the 60-yard shuttle. He also participated in the broad jump and did positional drills. English said his fastest time according to one scout was 4.62 seconds and his slowest time according to another scout was 4.75 seconds. English ran the 40 in 4.77 seconds at the NFL Combine.

English said he improved on everything from the combine. He also revealed that he scored a 34 on the Wonderlic test.

Wide receiver Matt Simon ran the 40 in 4.48 seconds and said he was pleased with how the day went for him. Simon also had former NIU quarterback Dan Nicholson throwing him passes.

Britt Davis, Melvin Rice, Bradley Pruitt, Brandon Beal, Chase Carter, Alex Krutsch and Andy Dittbenner also participated in pro day. Former Huskies Brandon Davis and Chris Nendick also were there, along with a few small college players.

There were 15 NFL teams in attendance, including the Bears. The Carolina Panthers had three representatitves there. Carolina's first pick in the NFL draft is in the second round, No. 59 overall. Below is the list of all the NFL teams at DeKalb today:

Baltimore Ravens, Pittsburgh Steelers, Houston Texans, Indianapolis Colts, Jacksonville Jaguars, Buffalo Bills, Carolina Panthers, Denver Broncos, Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers, Atlanta Falcons, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and San Francisco 49ers. The New York Giants are scheduled to come out to scout English next week.

There is so many damn directions we could go with our 9th pick it's not even funny. The one I hope the most we do is trade back in the first round and draft English. If we don't I hope we get a hell of a player at 9.

[wist43]

I don't trust Maybin or Brown, and while Orakpo is my preference, his injury history is a bit of a concern... English I'm okay with to this point, but that would be in a trade down.

In the end, TT will likely go in a completely different direction... I'd be okay with Crabtree or Macklin, or if one of the OT's fell, sans Smith from Bama.

[Dylan McKay]

I think if Crabtree fell to 9 or if the linebacker from Wake Forest fall to 9 I would be happy with either of those two, but other than that I ain't sold on anyone else at 9. A trade down would make the most sense, but what do I know, I am a member, a lowly member on a forum, I ain't no Jerry Jones.

[wist43]

While Curry may be the best LB on the board, he is what he is... a chase and tackle guy. As I've said b/4, and others have pointed out, his major weakness is pass rushing... which is our primary need.

Curry won't drop to us though.

[RashanGary]

I'm not a big Orakpo fan. He's stiff, plays high and can't really round the corner in college. Oh yeah, and wasn't very productive in college.

YOu'd think a guy who's can't threaten the edge would be powerful enough to bull rush or mix it up inside, but he can't really do that either.

Looks like Tarzan. Plays like Jane.



I don't know much about Maybin. I tend to like pass rushers that can use their hands well and really get low to pry or twist their way through a blocker. Everything I read abotu Maybin, he doesn't get low and isn't great at using his hands. They say he runs right by blockers, which sounds great except that he'll never be doing that on the next level. He's tough for me to judge because I've never seen him play. If he's good at coverage and decent at rushing the passer, maybe. I just don't know enough.

My favorite pass rusher is Everette Brown. He attacks OT's like an NFL pass rusher. He comes with a aggression and determination, has great hands for a college player and excels in prying through a blocker more so than running around him. If you think Brown can cover flats and curls, he has to be considered the best 3-4 OLB in this draft. If he's not an every down player, I feel strongly that he'll rack up a good number of sacks in the NFL as a specialist in either a 3-4 or 4-3.

[Partial]

Orakpo wasn't productive in college? You mean like being named the best defensive linemen and defensive player in the country as a senior, and a freshman of the year?

[RashanGary]

Low sack and TFL totals.

More hype than substance.

[rbaloha1]

According to the most recent Sporting News, if TT keeps #9 slot in keeping with best player available TT may select Andre Smith or the OSU te Pettigrew.

My knee jerk reaction to Smith was to stay away. But after reading articles about his religious background, Smith is just immature and not a bad kid like Clarett. Too good to pass up. Same with Pettigrew --too good to pass up.

TT may be bluffing on Orakpo. Recall Hawk was surprised by the Packers selection since he had virtually no contact prior to the draft.

[Lurker64]

I don't know much about Maybin. I tend to like pass rushers that can use their hands well and really get low to pry or twist their way through a blocker. Everything I read abotu Maybin, he doesn't get low and isn't great at using his hands. They say he runs right by blockers, which sounds great except that he'll never be doing that on the next level. He's tough for me to judge because I've never seen him play. If he's good at coverage and decent at rushing the passer, maybe. I just don't know enough.

My favorite pass rusher is Everette Brown. He attacks OT's like an NFL pass rusher. He comes with a aggression and determination, has great hands for a college player and excels in prying through a blocker more so than running around him. If you think Brown can cover flats and curls, he has to be considered the best 3-4 OLB in this draft. If he's not an every down player, I feel strongly that he'll rack up a good number of sacks in the NFL as a specialist in either a 3-4 or 4-3.

The thing to look at here is that Everette Brown has a year's more experience perfecting his craft as a pass-rusher than Maybin, and he was barely more productive:

Brown: 21.5 TFL, 13.5 Sacks (0-fer in 7/12 games), 29 solo tackles, 2 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles.
Maybin: 20 TFLs, 12 sacks, (0-fer in 4/12 games), 30 solo tackles, 3 passes defensed, and 3 forced fumbles.

Now consider that Maybin was up against superior competition, considering that the Big Ten has many warts, but one thing it is still outstanding at is "producing offensive linemen". The ACC just has a lot of warts, being one of the weakest conferences in college football this season.

Most of the problems with Maybin are that his technique is raw and unpolished, which is reasonable since he's a redshirt sophomore and 20 years old. But he's a very hard worker and driven to self-improvement, and technique can be learned. Maybin's instincts are top notch, and he's much better in coverage than Brown. If with raw, unpolished technique Maybin is just as productive as Brown (who by all accounts, has excellent technique), what's the competition going to be when Maybin polishes his technique?

Also, consider their relative levels of athleticism (taking each player's best time from either pro day or combine):

40 yard dash.
Brown: 4.66
Maybin: 4.59

10 yard split:
Brown: 1.59"
Maybin 1.55"

Vert:
Brown: 34"
Maybin: 40.5"

Broad:
Brown: 9'-9"
Maybin: 10'-10"

Arm Length:
Maybin: 35 3/4"
Brown: 33"

Short Shuttle:
Brown: 4.53
Maybin: 4.38

3-Cone
Brown: 7.55
Maybin: 7.52

Bench:
Brown: 29
Maybin: 22

Height:
Brown: 6'2"
Maybin: 6'4"

Weight:
Brown: 256
Maybin: 252

Maybin has the edge in every test, except the bench, and while Maybin's is reasonable, the discrepancy is easly attributed to Brown having spent a year more of his life in the weight room, and Maybin's ridiculously long arms. The fact that Maybin has a 6" advantage in the vert and a 13" advantage in the broad is very significant from an "evaluating pass rushers" perspective, since those numbers measure lower body explosion which is incredibly important for pass rushers.