Packers watching orakpo closely

[Gunakor]

The Williams trade wouldn't chaff nearly as bad if TTT used the pick to select somebody who showed something right off the bat. But he went for a backup QB pretty high when many were high with AROD love...which it looks like was well deserved.

ThAT Brohm looked poor (not that abnormal for a first year QB) and the seventh rounder outperformed him......bites even a bit more in the short term.

I would not have paid Williams the money he received; but he was a valuable part to this defense in that rotation.

So the combo of Harrell sucking wind so far and Brohm being the pick rather than somebody who might help sooner still makes me a bit sick about all of these decisions.

Well, we needed a backup for Rodgers. We loved Rodgers, but understood quite clearly his injury history. So we drafted a QB that looked like the steal of the draft when he was selected.

At the very least we'll get a serviceable backup QB for a few years and then trade him away to a QB needy team and get back the draft pick we spent on him. That's plenty enough value for a team's second pick in the second round. Wouldn't you agree?

[Fritz]

Bretsky, how many second round picks can help "right away"? I would argue that very, very few can. Maybe a running back - that position seems to be one that can be learned more quickly than, say, offensive guard or safety - or any other position, for that matter.

You never were going to get someone to help "right away," and so Brohm - a potential starter down the road, for the Pack or for someone - was a good pick. It was a risk to take two rookie QB's into the season last year as your back ups, but it worked. This year, you've got a pretty solid QB group.

How many NFL teams do you know of that have a young, franchise QB AND two young, developing QB's?

Williams prolly woulda helped, yes. But would you like to have that dude locked up for 7 mill or whatever last year and another 7 mill this year, and thus have that much less to re-sign Jennings, Colledge, Collins, Kampman, Spitz, Blackmon, et al?

[Gunakor]

Williams prolly woulda helped, yes. But would you like to have that dude locked up for 7 mill or whatever last year and another 7 mill this year, and thus have that much less to re-sign Jennings, Colledge, Collins, Kampman, Spitz, Blackmon, et al?

Williams was a little less than 3.5 million last year. And I'd have gladly paid that much for him. His cap numbers this year and next year are the ones that are so retarded. 8.6 million this year, 8.3 million next year (approximately). That's a ton of money.

[Fritz]

Even better in terms of my point, then. It's already going to be a challenge to fit Jennings et al under the sal cap - if you had Williams at those numbers, you'd lose someone for sure.

I'd rather have, say, Colledge and Spitz, or Collins and Colledge and Blackmon, or some combination (I'm assuming that Jennings and Kampman will get deals done) than just Williams. Specially now that the team is going to a 3-4, and we already know how Williams did with that.

[texaspackerbacker]

It was an extra pick that we wouldn't even have had without the trade. Thompson treated it that way--using it for what seemed to be a bargain that fell to us in Brohm. Right now, it ain't looking like much of a bargain, but it's way too early to tell with a QB--just look at Rodgers and what people thought of him after one year.

As I said, the only reason Williams was missed at all was because of the horrendous bunch of injuries on defense.

[Bretsky]

The Williams trade wouldn't chaff nearly as bad if TTT used the pick to select somebody who showed something right off the bat. But he went for a backup QB pretty high when many were high with AROD love...which it looks like was well deserved.

ThAT Brohm looked poor (not that abnormal for a first year QB) and the seventh rounder outperformed him......bites even a bit more in the short term.

I would not have paid Williams the money he received; but he was a valuable part to this defense in that rotation.

So the combo of Harrell sucking wind so far and Brohm being the pick rather than somebody who might help sooner still makes me a bit sick about all of these decisions.

Well, we needed a backup for Rodgers. We loved Rodgers, but understood quite clearly his injury history. So we drafted a QB that looked like the steal of the draft when he was selected.

At the very least we'll get a serviceable backup QB for a few years and then trade him away to a QB needy team and get back the draft pick we spent on him. That's plenty enough value for a team's second pick in the second round. Wouldn't you agree?

No, I don't agree with all of this; at worst case Brohm does not perform to his pick and we get little out of him in Green Bay or in a trade. And that would not be much. At this point we have a third stringer.

Most, including me, felt it sensible to get a vet backup so our hand was not forced in the draft. Chad Henne was also considered a steal of the draft. But the Dolphins didn't have a young up and comer.

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, how many second round picks can help "right away"? I would argue that very, very few can. Maybe a running back - that position seems to be one that can be learned more quickly than, say, offensive guard or safety - or any other position, for that matter.

You never were going to get someone to help "right away," and so Brohm - a potential starter down the road, for the Pack or for someone - was a good pick. It was a risk to take two rookie QB's into the season last year as your back ups, but it worked. This year, you've got a pretty solid QB group.

How many NFL teams do you know of that have a young, franchise QB AND two young, developing QB's?

Williams prolly woulda helped, yes. But would you like to have that dude locked up for 7 mill or whatever last year and another 7 mill this year, and thus have that much less to re-sign Jennings, Colledge, Collins, Kampman, Spitz, Blackmon, et al?

At QB, pretty much none. With our DL status I'd bet there would have been help out there. I'd have to look at the guys drafted after Brohm to get you a list. It's not like we are the Patriots or Steelers. We were 6-10. Plenty of holes. I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to think a second rounder.....could....help right away....although you could use our two second round picks last year as evidence to support your case.

[Bretsky]

It was an extra pick that we wouldn't even have had without the trade. Thompson treated it that way--using it for what seemed to be a bargain that fell to us in Brohm. Right now, it ain't looking like much of a bargain, but it's way too early to tell with a QB--just look at Rodgers and what people thought of him after one year.

As I said, the only reason Williams was missed at all was because of the horrendous bunch of injuries on defense.

Williams was missed for plenty of reasons....injuries part of it. Part of it was we had yahoos names Montgomery and Hunter still on the roster instead of better players.

[Joemailman]

It was an extra pick that we wouldn't even have had without the trade. Thompson treated it that way--using it for what seemed to be a bargain that fell to us in Brohm. Right now, it ain't looking like much of a bargain, but it's way too early to tell with a QB--just look at Rodgers and what people thought of him after one year.

As I said, the only reason Williams was missed at all was because of the horrendous bunch of injuries on defense.

Williams was missed for plenty of reasons....injuries part of it. Part of it was we had yahoos names Montgomery and Hunter still on the roster instead of better players.

The biggest problem IMHO was that we had a DC who couldn't make the adjustments necessitated by the injuries. Baltimore had a great defense despite losing some starters to injuries, but they had a great DC.

[Waldo]

Do you guys think that Partial is actually serious?

Or does he just argue for the sake of arguing, and take the punching bag stance on everything because it is fun.

[Partial]

Do you guys think that Partial is actually serious?

Or does he just argue for the sake of arguing, and take the punching bag stance on everything because it is fun.

The problem with this group is its become a bunch of sheep. They all think the same things, very little debate, etc. There is little doubt CWill was a good player. If you guys have convinced yourself otherwise, well, that is your problem.

[Waldo]

My problem is too many people agree with me.

I've always held the opinion that Williams was crap, basically a 300lb KGB, good as a situational rusher and that's it. And was a black sheep for a long time for my view. When Jolly beat him out it was a sign that MM agreed with me too. Since then virtually everybody has come around.

Starters money for him is a joke.

Would you give Rodgers a 5 yr 150M contract?

That is akin to giving Williams 6.5M/yr.

He might be better than we have now, but you still don't give a guy worth 2-3M/yr two to three times as much just to stick around.

[Patler]

Do you guys think that Partial is actually serious?

Or does he just argue for the sake of arguing, and take the punching bag stance on everything because it is fun.

The problem with this group is its become a bunch of sheep. They all think the same things, very little debate, etc. There is little doubt CWill was a good player. If you guys have convinced yourself otherwise, well, that is your problem.

Partial, I agree with your premise. Williams was a good player in GB, and was missed. I think you will find that I argued Williams would be missed long before he was traded. Sure he will never be a HOFer, may not even be a Pro-Bowler. He had several 4 or 5 game "quiet periods" in both '06 and '07, both when starting and when not starting. But, in the end he had more sacks those two seasons than any other DT in the NFL, and almost more importantly, no other Packer DT showed much aptitude those two seasons for getting sacks.

How could he not be missed at least a bit?

But, sometimes helpful players have to be allowed to leave. He became priced out of his value level. Getting a second round pick for him was the right thing to do.

[Partial]

I agree. I also agree he was very expensive for a part time player. My main beef is people saying he's worthless, fat, and lazy, like Gunk. That is a load of BS.

As I said, I have no idea whether we should have resigned him, but he was very good in his situational role, and a marginal starter.

[Gunakor]

I agree. I also agree he was very expensive for a part time player. My main beef is people saying he's worthless, fat, and lazy, like Gunk. That is a load of BS.

As I said, I have no idea whether we should have resigned him, but he was very good in his situational role, and a marginal starter.

When did I call him fat or worthless? Don't put words in my mouth. I said he's lazy and doesn't show the desire to live up to the contract he was signed to. If you don't agree with me, look at what Browns fans have to say about him. Look at what Packers fans have to say about him after being named a starter. I am certainly not the only one who shares this view.

I said, in this very thread one page back, that I'd have gladly paid the 3.5 million he made last year for him - as long as that's all it cost was 3.5 per over the length of the contract. The problem I have, and I thought I made it clear, was that his cap number jumps to 8.6 million this year. That would have made him the highest paid 3-4 end in the NFL last year, and it might this year too.