Hawk, Victim of V-Bob's Scheme? Hero under Dom?

[sharpe1027]

One thing that Hawk does not get enough credit for is how sure he is in the tackle. He almost never whiffs, and when you have to face AD/AP at least twice a year, a sure-tackling LB is huge.

I think Hawk has the same "problem" that fans see in Barnett: They never blow anybody up. These guys wrap up and usually hit at the waist or below, but you rarely see them just destroy some guy, separating man from ball, helmet, and will to live.

But I'm ok with that. Let Bigby do the smacking. I want my LBs to make a sure, sound tackle at or near the LOS.

Guys get blown up when LBs are asked to aggressively attack the LoS. Don't recall them doing that much in their scheme. IDK. Chicken or the egg I guess. Was it the scheme or the players? Probably a bit of both. I expect to see quite a few more big plays out of our LBers this year.

[Zool]

But I'm ok with that. Let Bigby do the smacking. I want my LBs to make a sure, sound tackle at or near the LOS.

This has always been my problem with Barnett. He's always dragging guys down after a chase. I don't know if he's always tentative and his speed makes up for that or what, but RB's get decent chunks of yards way too consistently. For now I'm willing to chalk it up to scheme.

[Pugger]

Wasn't it in 2007 when the bare's D line was a mess and Urlacker disappeared? I'm hoping this new scheme will bring out the best in ALL of our LBs.

[Dylan McKay]

The same goes for Ray Lewis, who might just happen to be the best linebacker of this generation. A couple of years ago the Lewis was hurt and struggling in Baltimore and basically begging the Ravens to switch back to the 4-3 an get some big bad defensive tackles to protect his ass. See Ngata. Lewis's career seemed to perk right back up after they drafted him.

The days of 260 pound pluggers at linebacker are just about over in the NFL.

[rbaloha1]

Wasn't it in 2007 when the bare's D line was a mess and Urlacker disappeared? I'm hoping this new scheme will bring out the best in ALL of our LBs.

Agreed. Maybe the Hawk apologists will stop and the dude finally lives up to the hype.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Agreed. Maybe the Hawk apologists will stop and the dude finally lives up to the hype.

Judging by your "Hawk was overrated in college because of the overrated Big 10 and another example of a workout warrior" comments, I'm guessing you have a bias that you are having a hard time overcoming.

How do you think he did his first two years in the league? Try taking away your pre-draft bias and give your fair assessement. I'd say he was good his first two years. He certainly wasn't an elite playmaker, but he was good (and in a lot of ways that don't get noticed). Certainly, not a bust. Now, I think he had a poor third year. The most reasonable explanation seems to be that the injury affected him more than he let on. And I don't buy the stuff about him saying he was 100%. That's just being a warrior and leader. If he had said he was playing injured, people would rip him for making excuses. Pretty obvious in the level of his play in year 2 and year 3 that he wasn't the same physically.

[rbaloha1]

Agreed. Maybe the Hawk apologists will stop and the dude finally lives up to the hype.

Judging by your "Hawk was overrated in college because of the overrated Big 10 and another example of a workout warrior" comments, I'm guessing you have a bias that you are having a hard time overcoming.

How do you think he did his first two years in the league? Try taking away your pre-draft bias and give your fair assessement.

Had no predraft bias towards Hawk although I wanted Vernon Davis instead.

As for the Big 10 their bowl record speaks for itself and problems with speed.

Hawk's first 2 years were solid but unspectacular. Improved in pass coverage. Possess great closing speed once the ball carrier is identified. Given the draft position and the hype saying, "Hawk was the safest pick in the draft" and the Saints almost taking Hawk, I expected Urlacher type impact.

Suffice to say, Hawk has not reached Urlacher type production and was called out by Coach Moss for lack of big plays.

Hopefully the scheme elevates Hawk's so-called ability to make big plays

[cheesner]

Hawk's first 2 years were solid but unspectacular. Improved in pass coverage. Possess great closing speed once the ball carrier is identified. Given the draft position and the hype saying, "Hawk was the safest pick in the draft" and the Saints almost taking Hawk, I expected Urlacher type impact.

Suffice to say, Hawk has not reached Urlacher type production and was called out by Coach Moss for lack of big plays.

Hopefully the scheme elevates Hawk's so-called ability to make big plays

Where would the Urlacher impact type player have come from? TT can't just magically pull these guys from his ass? (please no gay TT jokes) 2006 draft was one of the worst in a long time. You can argue Ngata would have been a better pick and Cutler would have also (though un-needed pick). But where the hell is the Urlacher impact player? How can you hold TT to that when it wasn't even a possibility?

Personally, if the draft were re-held today, I think AJ is still the pick.

Here is the rest of the 1st round of 2006:

A.J. Hawk
Vernon Davis
Michael Huff
Donte Whitner
Ernie Sims
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
Haloti Ngata
Kamerion Wimbley
Brodrick Bunkley
Tye Hill
Jason Allen
Chad Greenway
Bobby Carpenter
Antonio Cromartie
Tamba Hali
Laurence Maroney
Manny Lawson
Davin Joseph
Johnathan Joseph
Santonio Holmes
John McCargo
DeAngelo Williams
Marcedes Lewis
Nick Mangold
Joseph Addai
Kelly Jennings
Mathias Kiwanuka

[Waldo]

"Hawk was the safest pick in the draft" and the Saints almost taking Hawk, I expected Urlacher type impact.

In fact if you look at that draft, I agree, Hawk was one of the safest picks in the draft.

Mario Williams - best pick in first
Reggie Bush - not lived up to hype
Vince Young - bust
D'Brickashaw Ferguson - took a few years, he looks good now
A. J. Hawk - solid but unspectacular
Vernon Davis - bust
Michael Huff - bust
Donte Whitner - solid but unspectacular
Ernie Sims - no better than Hawk
Matt Leinart - bust
Jay Cutler - We already had AR
Haloti Ngata - I'd take him over Hawk
Kamerion Wimbley - bust
Brodrick Bunkley - Took a few years, I'd take him over Hawk
Tye Hill - bust
Jason Allen - bust
Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
Bobby Carpenter - bust
Antonio Cromartie - been to a pro bowl, but terrible in '08
Tamba Hali - solid but unspectacular, not worth a first
Laurence Maroney - bust
Manny Lawson - bust
Davin Joseph - very solid G (definitely not worth #5)
Johnathan Joseph - nothing special
Santonio Holmes - Very good WR, we got a better one later
John McCargo - bust
DeAngelo Williams - took a few years, but he's solid
Marcedes Lewis - Nothing special
Nick Mangold - very good C (not worth #5)
Joseph Addai - OK running back
Kelly Jennings - bust
Mathias Kiwanuka - decent pass rusher

What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

[sharpe1027]

What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

It says ALOT, when you have a hard time knocking a pick after using all the hindsight knowledge you can muster.

If only it were that easy, then we could all get paid the big $$ to be an NFL GM...

[mngolf19]

[quote="Waldo

Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?[/quote]

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

[Waldo]

Chad Greenway - I'd rather have Hawk
What first rounders would you rather have over Hawk from that year?

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

I think that really is just you. Greenway is just as solid but unspectacular as Hawk. At least Hawk has a cool name.

[HarveyWallbangers]

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

We'll see. Greenway was injured in year one. In year two, I would have taken Hawk. In year three, I would have taken Greenway. Overall, I think Hawk has had a slightly better career, but Greenway is coming off a better year. Of course, Hawk played hurt and it helps to have Pat Williams and Kevin Williams keeping OL off you. I think all of Minnesota's LBs look better than they are (no offense) because of those two. Heck, E.J. Henderson (who I think is a very good player) went down last year and they barely missed a beat.

[mngolf19]

As a Vikes fan, in the games I've watched Hawk in, and articles I've read this week, I'd rather have Greenway. But that's just me.

We'll see. Greenway was injured in year one. In year two, I would have taken Hawk. In year three, I would have taken Greenway. Overall, I think Hawk has had a slightly better career, but Greenway is coming off a better year. Of course, Hawk played hurt and it helps to have Pat Williams and Kevin Williams keeping OL off you. I think all of Minnesota's LBs look better than they are (no offense) because of those two. Heck, E.J. Henderson (who I think is a very good player) went down last year and they barely missed a beat.

I hear ya Harv, but Greenway plays outside so I don't know how much the Wall helped him overall. Obviously they helped Mr. 4th string who played in the middle after Henderson. Your right though, this should be the defining year for both if both are healthy.

[KYPack]

Ngata is the only guy we cudda shudda.

He had knee miseries and was thought to be a gamble. Solid rookie year, then look out nurse. If he keeps going he's the best first round guy from that draft.

Waldo, the other OSU linebacker is Barbie Carpenter, not Bobby Carpenter.