DT B.J. Raji tests POSITIVE FOR DRUGS!

[Fritz]

We don't need a NT that bad. Raji would be one of the least impactful players we could add for the '09 season. Unless Pickett gets hurt, it is doubtful that Raji would beat out Pickett as a rookie. The 3-4 NT is a situational player, even if Pickett only plays 75% of the NT snaps a game, Raji still wouldn't play more than 5-10 snaps a game tops. He's too short and alligator armed to kick out to DE like the bigger NT's (Ngata). Pickett is just entering the prime age for a NT, he should be in his peak for the next 5 years. NT's are like wine, they don't get good for a while typically, and their prime is typically around 30 years old.

Phat Pat didn't get good until he was 33-34 years old. Old Grady is still kicking around at 36, his knees have been shot for several years now. Big Grease is only 29.

Raji has a higher ceiling than Pickett, but is is doubtful taht he reaches it for 3-4 years. By drafting Raji, most likely we actually make ourself worse in '10, no way Pickett is resigned if he has a 5M/yr backup, and Raji is most likely a few years away from being better than Pickett.

Nobody would help our DL like Tyson Jackson. He's definitely the most starter ready 3-4 DL player in the draft. Gilbert and Hood might have a higher ceiling, but it'll be a few years before they surpass Jackson on the field.

Me, I'd take the higher ceiling guys who will take time to develop over the guy who can step right in but not go as far.

As for having a high ceiling, it sounds like Raji sure does!

[rbaloha1]

We don't need a NT that bad. Raji would be one of the least impactful players we could add for the '09 season. Unless Pickett gets hurt, it is doubtful that Raji would beat out Pickett as a rookie. The 3-4 NT is a situational player, even if Pickett only plays 75% of the NT snaps a game, Raji still wouldn't play more than 5-10 snaps a game tops. He's too short and alligator armed to kick out to DE like the bigger NT's (Ngata). Pickett is just entering the prime age for a NT, he should be in his peak for the next 5 years. NT's are like wine, they don't get good for a while typically, and their prime is typically around 30 years old.

Phat Pat didn't get good until he was 33-34 years old. Old Grady is still kicking around at 36, his knees have been shot for several years now. Big Grease is only 29.

Raji has a higher ceiling than Pickett, but is is doubtful taht he reaches it for 3-4 years. By drafting Raji, most likely we actually make ourself worse in '10, no way Pickett is resigned if he has a 5M/yr backup, and Raji is most likely a few years away from being better than Pickett.

The key to the 3-4 is a penetrating or a ng that occupies blockers. Throw-out stats or flashy plays. NG is the most important position just like the center on offense.

Raji is ideal in the Sapp mold. Pickett is beat-up and aging. Unsure how many years Pickett has left.

Agreed Tyson Jackson would be an outstanding pick even at #9.

[Gunakor]

I think Pickett will be fine as the starter at NT. We just need some one to go with him. I don't think we can go into the season with one bonafide NT. However, the RT situation is scary to me and I think we need another guy at DE. Hopefully, a starter. We also could use some depth at CB.

RT scares me as well. But RT isn't a position I'd use a top 10 pick on either. LT maybe, but not RT. I'd be perfectly happy with an RT selected at the top of the second round. We need another DE too, but in all honesty I think we are fine for starters at the ends. If Harrell gets healthy he should flourish there, and Jolly should be more than adequate there also.

Green Bay spent a second round pick on a CB last year, and if they are happy with T-Will as one of the eventual starters replacing Chuck or Al, I dont' think they look at another CB early - certainly not with a top 10 pick. Maybe they will, I don't know. But it kinda makes it seem like they've already given up on Pat Lee if they do. Not the sign I'm looking for with the #9 pick.

[Waldo]

Aside from being a pothead, Raji is not in the Sapp mold, Sapp was a 300lb penetrator, Raji is a 340lb wall. Sapp was smaller that Cullen Jenkins. Raji is much more similar to Vince when he came out.

It isn't concerning to anybody that Raji was dominated 1 on 1 in the senior bowl vs. Mack and Wood? He made mincemeat of Unger, but the mauler C's can handle him by themselves.

Pickett is not beat up and aging. Where do you guys get this stuff. He's 29, in NT years that is young. He's slowing a bit and is probably better suited now to a 3-4 than a 4-3, as tackles age they get slower and more stout. That big gap between him and Kamp in Sanders' retarded scheme was to much for him to cover anymore (especially with Kamp thinking he's KGB and giving up on inside gap control in the run, something he used to excel at but is pretty bad at now). With the distance between him and the DE cut in half, he won't need to move nearly as much. He can still hold and command a double team just fine and would destroy any C in the league 1 on 1.

The fact remains that the NT is a situational player. A good % of the time when the nickel defense is on the field, the NT is on the bench. Unlike most 4-3 defenses where the SLB takes a seat.

IMO the most important lineman is the strong DE. He's typically the guy in the A gap in nickel defense, and has to play the part of the NT if they run out of a passing set. Harrell is penciled in there now surely, but nobody else on the team is suited to it. Hood and Moala are those guys in this draft. That is what Ngata's role has been for most of his career thus far, just a situational NT on sub packages and DE in base sets. Raji can't do that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The key to the 3-4 is a penetrating or a ng that occupies blockers. Throw-out stats or flashy plays. NG is the most important position just like the center on offense.

Raji is ideal in the Sapp mold. Pickett is beat-up and aging. Unsure how many years Pickett has left.

Agreed Tyson Jackson would be an outstanding pick even at #9.

I'm trying to figure this out. I'm not sure what you mean that the key is "a penetrating or a NG that occupies blockers?" The second part is usually true, but an undersized penetrating NT isn't usually true. Remember that Warren Sapp played DT in the 4-3 with Tampa Bay, but moved to DE when Oakland switched to a 3-4. He was a 4-3 DT and a 3-4 DE--not a 3-4 NT. Raji doesn't seem to be anything like Sapp. Raji is much bigger than Sapp but not as athletic.

[rbaloha1]

The key to the 3-4 is a penetrating or a ng that occupies blockers. Throw-out stats or flashy plays. NG is the most important position just like the center on offense.

Raji is ideal in the Sapp mold. Pickett is beat-up and aging. Unsure how many years Pickett has left.

Agreed Tyson Jackson would be an outstanding pick even at #9.

I'm trying to figure this out. I'm not sure what you mean that the key is "a penetrating or a NG that occupies blockers?" The second part is usually true, but an undersized penetrating NT isn't usually true. Remember that Warren Sapp played DT in the 4-3 with Tampa Bay, but moved to DE when Oakland switched to a 3-4. He was a 4-3 DT and a 3-4 DE--not a 3-4 NT. Raji doesn't seem to be anything like Sapp. Raji is much bigger than Sapp but not as athletic.

Both of these characteristics are crucial. The comparison to Sapp is due to body type and ability to use leverage to make or disrupt plays.

If Sapp easily would have been a dominant 3-4 ng early in his career.

[rbaloha1]

Aside from being a pothead, Raji is not in the Sapp mold, Sapp was a 300lb penetrator, Raji is a 340lb wall. Sapp was smaller that Cullen Jenkins. Raji is much more similar to Vince when he came out.

It isn't concerning to anybody that Raji was dominated 1 on 1 in the senior bowl vs. Mack and Wood? He made mincemeat of Unger, but the mauler C's can handle him by themselves.

Pickett is not beat up and aging. Where do you guys get this stuff. He's 29, in NT years that is young. He's slowing a bit and is probably better suited now to a 3-4 than a 4-3, as tackles age they get slower and more stout. That big gap between him and Kamp in Sanders' retarded scheme was to much for him to cover anymore (especially with Kamp thinking he's KGB and giving up on inside gap control in the run, something he used to excel at but is pretty bad at now). With the distance between him and the DE cut in half, he won't need to move nearly as much. He can still hold and command a double team just fine and would destroy any C in the league 1 on 1.

The fact remains that the NT is a situational player. A good % of the time when the nickel defense is on the field, the NT is on the bench. Unlike most 4-3 defenses where the SLB takes a seat.

IMO the most important lineman is the strong DE. He's typically the guy in the A gap in nickel defense, and has to play the part of the NT if they run out of a passing set. Harrell is penciled in there now surely, but nobody else on the team is suited to it. Hood and Moala are those guys in this draft. That is what Ngata's role has been for most of his career thus far, just a situational NT on sub packages and DE in base sets. Raji can't do that.

If you want to judge Raji on drills vs. play at BC be my guest. Third down is dictated by what happens on downs 1 and 2.

If teams are able to run for 5-7 yards on first down due to poor ng play the defense is in serious trouble (see Packers 08 defense).

[SnakeLH2006]

Snake likes it...Now we can all get a BJ...Some may not like how they got it, some may love it regardless, but bottom line we all are happier with a BJ.

Snake don't care about the weed shit...Guy's prob. not too bright, but athletically/college prowess is off the chart and exactly what we need at 3-4 NT...Christ..he was going #2 in the latest draft polls...Who gives a shit if he likes to toke? He's prob. just not too bright, but didn't kill NE1 at a stoplight, so I'd still take him.

Christ...Snake just got back from Vegas today. Snake used to toke in college and did quite well academically. Then again, he met some smokin' college hotties from Phoenix who liked to party all day on Wed. at the Rio. I won't even tell you half the shit Snake did, yet I left happy and in one piece. BJ's are great. Let's all get one at #9.

[DonHutson]

The only thing wrong with Pickett is that he played way too many snaps last year. So yes, we need a capable backup for him. That backup does not necessarily need to be filled with the #1 pick. It certainly doesn't require taking on a major character risk with a top ten pick.

I'm hoping Ron Brace is still around in the 2nd.

[wist43]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

[Gunakor]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

I think he might, depending on how serious this is. I think some people have blown it out of proportion. Like those saying he's going to prison or some dumb shit like that. It might be just that - a first strike and entry into the leagues substance abuse program. He wouldn't be the first, and if that's all it is, I think I take him anyway.

[red]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

I think he might, depending on how serious this is. I think some people have blown it out of proportion. Like those saying he's going to prison or some dumb shit like that. It might be just that - a first strike and entry into the leagues substance abuse program. He wouldn't be the first, and if that's all it is, I think I take him anyway.

i don't know if TT can afford to take any risk at this point with the first pick

[Gunakor]

I'd love to see Raji drop to 9, and TT take him, but Raji comes with some risk now... he will automatically go into the leagues substance abuse program, and comes with one strike.

Doubt TT would be willing to take a chance.

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

I think he might, depending on how serious this is. I think some people have blown it out of proportion. Like those saying he's going to prison or some dumb shit like that. It might be just that - a first strike and entry into the leagues substance abuse program. He wouldn't be the first, and if that's all it is, I think I take him anyway.

i don't know if TT can afford to take any risk at this point with the first pick

I think he can. Unlike most on here, I'm with TPB in that I like most of the players on our team already. I don't think we need a DE as badly as some do. I don't think OLB is necessarily a top priority either. I think the depth at CB is better than most give them credit for. The only two positions I see as ones we MUST hit on are NT and RT. And I feel personally that if you miss out on Raji then you've missed at NT.

[DonHutson]

He took a chance on a serious injury risk in Harrell, you don't think he'd take a chance on a character risk with greater upside like Raji if he were there for us?

Injuries are usually, but not always, temporary.

Being a dumbass is usually, but not always, permanent.

I can't think of any major character risk that Ted has taken on the first day. Add in that Ted doesn't really recognize need as a reason to draft somebody and there's no overwhelming reason why I would expect him to draft Raji, and a big reason for him not to.

If it was just this one incident, it might not be a huge deal. But if he got caught smoking before, and the credit snafu that got him suspended - there's a pattern of a lack of accountability there.

[DonHutson]

Oh, and I said it before and I'll say it again...

Bengals

Raiders

Don't be shocked if either one renders this discussion moot.