VICK DA GREAT

[Scott Campbell]

vick = sean penn basicaly, great ENTERTAINER

I bet Sean is more accurate.

[mraynrand]

Stallworth got 24 days for being a dumbass for drinking and driving and having somebody run right in front of his car from what I have read regarding the video of the incident. The dude literally ran right out in front of his car.

I think the biggest fact that supports his sentence and the contributory negligence is it is my understanding that the family of the man who was killed agreed to the amount of time served, did not push for a harsher sentence, understanding that it was completely an accident. And while stallworth had exceeded the legal alcohol limits, it wasn't by much. It's not like he was falling over himself drunk.

All true, but we got to get tougher on the DUI folks. If we were tougher on first timers, McNair would be alive and fulfilling the young ladies today.

[MOBB DEEP]

vick = sean penn basicaly, great ENTERTAINER

I bet Sean is more accurate.

he he...probably SC

[MOBB DEEP]

Stallworth got 24 days for being a dumbass for drinking and driving and having somebody run right in front of his car from what I have read regarding the video of the incident. The dude literally ran right out in front of his car.

I think the biggest fact that supports his sentence and the contributory negligence is it is my understanding that the family of the man who was killed agreed to the amount of time served, did not push for a harsher sentence, understanding that it was completely an accident. And while stallworth had exceeded the legal alcohol limits, it wasn't by much. It's not like he was falling over himself drunk.

All true, but we got to get tougher on the DUI folks. If we were tougher on first timers, McNair would be alive and fulfilling the young ladies today.

dont jinx me; i got DUI 2 months ago and have driven WAY more wasted than i was then...my first time drinking in almost 2 years DAYUM...

court date in september so dont be urging powers that be to throw book at me

[MOBB DEEP]

espn poll:

65% of ppl want to see vick da great play this season

what do the other 35% want? him banned for life??

[SkinBasket]

What Vick did was wrong. Obviously. But he has paid his debt. It is time to move forward. If he can find a job in the NFL, best of luck to him.

It doesn't matter what debt he's paid to society. His actions damaged the image and marketability of not only the Falcons, but the entire league as well. He lied to his team, his fans, and Goodell personally. There's no obligation to allow him to play another day in the league, and as of right now, I don't any reason why he should be allowed to play football in the NFL again.

[pbmax]

What Vick did was wrong. Obviously. But he has paid his debt. It is time to move forward. If he can find a job in the NFL, best of luck to him.

It doesn't matter what debt he's paid to society. His actions damaged the image and marketability of not only the Falcons, but the entire league as well. He lied to his team, his fans, and Goodell personally. There's no obligation to allow him to play another day in the league, and as of right now, I don't any reason why he should be allowed to play football in the NFL again.

You don't think money is a motivating factor here at all for the league or teams? Or do you wish that it wasn't going to be a factor?

[SkinBasket]

funny u mention A.I. b/c he's my 3rd all time fav behind bird and ewing (im a Hoya for life!)...not b/c he won championship but b/c i dig how he ENTERTAINS me my friend

it is what it is; everone cant win so why not just enjoy what each individual brings to the game??!! vick = sean penn basicaly, great ENTERTAINER

Not everyone can drown, electrocute, and hang dogs like Vick did. Has anyone considered the impact his imprisonment has had on dog murder? I bet it hasn't been nearly as fun or entertaining without "da great" around.

[SkinBasket]

What Vick did was wrong. Obviously. But he has paid his debt. It is time to move forward. If he can find a job in the NFL, best of luck to him.

It doesn't matter what debt he's paid to society. His actions damaged the image and marketability of not only the Falcons, but the entire league as well. He lied to his team, his fans, and Goodell personally. There's no obligation to allow him to play another day in the league, and as of right now, I don't any reason why he should be allowed to play football in the NFL again.

You don't think money is a motivating factor here at all for the league or teams? Or do you wish that it wasn't going to be a factor?

You mean money generated by allowing him to play again? Like ticket and jersey sales?

[pbmax]

What Vick did was wrong. Obviously. But he has paid his debt. It is time to move forward. If he can find a job in the NFL, best of luck to him.

It doesn't matter what debt he's paid to society. His actions damaged the image and marketability of not only the Falcons, but the entire league as well. He lied to his team, his fans, and Goodell personally. There's no obligation to allow him to play another day in the league, and as of right now, I don't any reason why he should be allowed to play football in the NFL again.

You don't think money is a motivating factor here at all for the league or teams? Or do you wish that it wasn't going to be a factor?

You mean money generated by allowing him to play again? Like ticket and jersey sales?

Yes. Additionally, advertising and marketing for the team, league and networks. And higher ratings for a while at least.

[KYPack]

u misunderstood me; i wasnt sayn all poor black folk engage in this nonsense...shoot! i grew up poor and knew fools who did dog fightn..i couldnt even stomach it

and ur right, some white folk do it do but i would bet 75% or better are black folk
I think there are lots of "disenfranchised african-american folk" who don't resort to killing and mutilating dogs just for the entertainment value of it. And it's certainly not just a black thing. The people who do this are just ordinary run of the mill assholes.

I doubt there is any census data to back this up, but dog fighting is not 75% Black. It's a dirty Southern thing. They show raids of dog fighting places all the time on TV around here. It's all hillbillies that they arrest. I'd say it's a 60-40 or 70-30 or more to the poor white trash side of the ledger as to who fights dogs.

I guess Vick should be allowed to come back. The Leonard Little case is the bad example that's often cited there, but it's true. If a guy kills people and gets a second chance, vick outta get one too.

I own 3 big dogs and work with a few animal rescue places. Some of the people in that movement also belong to PETA. Believe me, PETA is laying in the weeds to come after both Vick and the NFL if Mike gets re-instated. His case creates hoopla and that equals donation $ to PETA. PETA does not squander those kinds of opportunities. They will make Vick national cause & it will be rough on the guy.

[SkinBasket]

What Vick did was wrong. Obviously. But he has paid his debt. It is time to move forward. If he can find a job in the NFL, best of luck to him.

It doesn't matter what debt he's paid to society. His actions damaged the image and marketability of not only the Falcons, but the entire league as well. He lied to his team, his fans, and Goodell personally. There's no obligation to allow him to play another day in the league, and as of right now, I don't any reason why he should be allowed to play football in the NFL again.

You don't think money is a motivating factor here at all for the league or teams? Or do you wish that it wasn't going to be a factor?

You mean money generated by allowing him to play again? Like ticket and jersey sales?

Yes. Additionally, advertising and marketing for the team, league and networks. And higher ratings for a while at least.

Honestly, I don't think Vick has any kind of staggering value. Sure, he still has his "fan base" that will defend him as another beaten down brotha and will take great pride in sticking it to the man by wearing new Vick gear. But on the larger scale, I find it hard to believe that many sane people will want themselves or their children to carry his brand.

Sure, there's some revenue created by the dramatic story of his return - assuming he can secure a starting job after his time away. But no more than the couple dozen stories that are played up by the league to sell games and tickets in any given season.

The guy wasn't that good. Some people might find him exciting - in that he was good at doing some things that didn't translate into winning football games while being absolutely pedestrian in those things which were expected of him. Brutally slaying dogs is what he is currently best known and remembered for. If I'm the league, I simply don't want that story played out again and again each week he takes the field - reminding advertisers, fans, casual observers, and drunken bar sluts alike that one of the NFL's previously most visible and marketable players killed a bunch of dogs, lied about it, then spent time in federal prison.

[Gunakor]

Stallworth got 24 days for being a dumbass for drinking and driving and having somebody run right in front of his car from what I have read regarding the video of the incident. The dude literally ran right out in front of his car.

I think the biggest fact that supports his sentence and the contributory negligence is it is my understanding that the family of the man who was killed agreed to the amount of time served, did not push for a harsher sentence, understanding that it was completely an accident. And while stallworth had exceeded the legal alcohol limits, it wasn't by much. It's not like he was falling over himself drunk.

In regard to Vick's debt, there is a lot of debate and differing thought on the matter of incarceration and corrections in this country. I am not arrogant enough to say that I know the answers to it all, but it seems to me that punishment and the debt are integrally linked. And if the state's punishment is not sufficient for the debt, a civil suit often follows. Imposed community service is often used as a means of satisfying that debt. I do not recall, is Vick obligated to perform community service? Regardless, once Vick has fulfilled the punishment and paid the debt as established by the courts, he is a free man and should be allowed to move forward. I will not be the one standing and judging. The court has already done that.

Vick can begin repaying that debt by working with and donating to animal rights groups, going to schools and youth groups and talking about the atrocities he's committed and why it was a mistake, things like that. Whether legally obligated to do so or not. In fact, it would make more of an impact if he were not ordered to do so by the courts, instead doing so on his own accord.

I don't think the courts should be the ones to establish debt to society. The courts can only judge the crime and establish punishment for that crime. Only the punishment is mandatory. Debt to society should be established by society, and repayment of that debt is not mandatory. As repayment of that debt is optional, Vick should have to make that repayment before being afforded the privilege of a new NFL career.

Put it like this: If Vick were to go right back to dogfighting, what good has the year and a half he spent in prison done for society? That's what I'm talking about. Prison is just punishment, it is not actual rehabilitation or repayment of debt. That path starts afterwards, should he choose to follow that path. Otherwise he's just another guy who went to prison yet didn't learn a damn thing. In that case, no debt has been paid no matter how many days he spent behind bars. I hope he does make the effort to continue the down the right path to make amends for what he's done, and if he does I absolutely agree he should get another shot at an NFL career. But second chances have to be earned, they should not be just given away. He has to earn that chance and he hasn't done that yet.

[MOBB DEEP]

this cat on jim rome today said that he would take vick da great over favre b/c he's fresher

[Gunakor]

Gunakor, as far as Vick goes, what debt does he have yet to pay to society?

Prove that he's done dogfighting, talk to and work with organizations to stop others who are engaged in dogfighting, work with animal rights groups, etc.

Let me ask you this: What debt has Vick paid to society simply by spending time behind bars? How does one make things right in the eyes of society while incarcerated? What has Vick done specifically? I would think that those of us who have NOT spent time behind bars have paid more towards society than anyone who has. I give no credit to a criminal simply for serving his punishment.