Judge denies most of Vikings' Williamses' claims

[Rastak]

There is no "trusted list". They have a marketing agreement with ONE manufacteror. Eight players tested positive before the NFL determined the thing was spiked with an FDA regulated drug. The FDA was not informed nor were the players. It's become clear to me that the NFL and the NFLPA have an extremely acrimonious relationship behind the scenes. I would have thought the entire policy would be more of a cooperative effort since many of these drugs are dangerous.

It's clear to me the appeals process if flawed and justice is meeted out in a fairly haphazard manner which does nothing but undermine the policy. The NFL claimed it wasn't in the least worried it's policy violated Minnesota state law then turned around and appealed, which I thought was rather funny. Never take anything a lawyer says as truth it seems.

Hypothetically speaking, you seem to suggest that if the NFL had no knowledge of Star Caps, then player's identical actions suddenly become wrong?

The NFL's mistakes don't make the players any less responsible. Both should be held accountable.

Frankly, allowing players to use ignorance as an excuse would undermine the policy. Word gets around on products like Star Caps, and there will almost never be a smoking gun. A player intentionally taking something like star caps for the masking effect simply plays dumb and gets off free. I don't think so.

I'm not sure what you think is so flawed and haphazard.

Allowing 8-12 players to test positive without incident then suspending the next 5 isn't haphazard?

[sharpe1027]

Allowing 8-12 players to test positive without incident then suspending the next 5 isn't haphazard?

My mistake, I wrongly assumed you were talking about the judge's ruling being haphazard. Sorry, I just read your post incorrectly.

When were the 8-12 players tested? What were the facts of those players. I hadn't heard about more than one.

From my previous post on this issue:

Here is my take:
1.) The NFL did not warn anyone specifically about Star Caps.
2.) There are reasons that the NFL might be concerned with providing specific names.
3.) The NFL still should have warned players about Star Caps.
4.) Proving the NFL was in the wrong does not excuse the players from their mistake.
5.) The previous player's situation was not identical to the present situation.

[RashanGary]

Suspend'em.

[Rastak]

Allowing 8-12 players to test positive without incident then suspending the next 5 isn't haphazard?

My mistake, I wrongly assumed you were talking about the judge's ruling being haphazard. Sorry, I just read your post incorrectly.

When were the 8-12 players tested? What were the facts of those players. I hadn't heard about more than one.

From my previous post on this issue:

Here is my take:
1.) The NFL did not warn anyone specifically about Star Caps.
2.) There are reasons that the NFL might be concerned with providing specific names.
3.) The NFL still should have warned players about Star Caps.
4.) Proving the NFL was in the wrong does not excuse the players from their mistake.
5.) The previous player's situation was not identical to the present situation.

Well, you know the deal with lawyers, I'm never 100% sure but I've heard it during multiple accounts and they did vary from 8-12 that tested positive before the NFL lifted a finger. That was mentioned by Ginsburg (the defense attorney) and discussed on NFL radio several times. The reason the NFL even knew about what was contained in StarCaps was because a player tested positive then said he was only taking StarCaps and the league tested the product. Now riddle me this, if the NFL claims it doesn't matter how a substance got into a player why would they even bother? AND, why was the player not suspended? Because they they seem to be acting in an arbitrary manner. Doing things one way when it suits them and then some other way when it doesn't.

[Rastak]

Suspend'em.

That's a very compelling argument you raise there JH....

[HarveyWallbangers]

Allowing 8-12 players to test positive without incident then suspending the next 5 isn't haphazard?

What players are you talking about? I know New Orleans had a linemen suspended before the Williamses got busted and he got a four game suspension--which he served without appealing.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Do you seriously think Pat and Kevin were taking it for weight loss?

[Scott Campbell]

Suspend'em.

That's a very compelling argument you raise there JH....

If those two cheaters get off (and that very well could happen), it'll be on a legal technicality.

[Rastak]

Do you seriously think Pat and Kevin were taking it for weight loss?

Diet pills for weight loss? Of course not. They were taking them to gain weight.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Yeah, its not like players have weight clauses and bonuses tied to their weight.

[Packerarcher]

According to what most of you are saying it's ok for the NFL to be negligent and deceptive,but not the players. That's bull,the the NFL is just as fault here as the players.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The only things I know about StarCaps and this case:

It's a substance that contains a masking agent.

"You and you alone are responsible for what goes into your body. Claiming that you used only legally available nutritional supplements will not help you in an appeal. ... Even if they are bought over-the-counter from a known establishment, there is currently no way to be sure that they contain the ingredients listed on the packaging or have not been tainted with prohibited substances.”

The policy goes on to state "If you take these products, you do so AT YOUR OWN RISK! For your own health and success in the league, we strongly encourage you to avoid the use of supplements altogether, or at the very least to be extremely careful about what you choose to take."

[sharpe1027]

According to what most of you are saying it's ok for the NFL to be negligent and deceptive,but not the players. That's bull,the the NFL is just as fault here as the players.

Not at all. You missed the point entirely. I say F-the league too. They deserve a big smack upside the head.

Still, for all the wrongs that the NFL did, nothing magically makes what the players did right. Everyone agrees that if the NFL knew nothing about Star Caps, the players should have been suspended. Do their actions magically become right because of something the NFL did? No.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

[Rastak]

[quote="HarveyWallbangers"]The only things I know about StarCaps and this case:

It's a substance that contains a masking agent.

It's a substance that legally couldn't contain the banned diuretic that has been used by some in the past as masking agent.It didn't list it as an ingrediant....it was a weight loss product.

You seem to insinuate they were on steroides when there isn;t a shred of evidence to support this fact. If you wanted to take a friggen masking agent you'd just take it directly and not through some OTC supplement that secretly contains it.


Is this not the common sense view?

[]{ilr]3]

[quote="Rastak"]

The only things I know about StarCaps and this case:

It's a substance that contains a masking agent.

It's a substance that legally couldn't contain the banned diuretic that has been used by some in the past as masking agent.It didn't list it as an ingrediant....it was a weight loss product.

You seem to insinuate they were on steroides when there isn;t a shred of evidence to support this fact. If you wanted to take a friggen masking agent you'd just take it directly and not through some OTC supplement that secretly contains it.


Is this not the common sense view?

Not if they were taking it this way so they had an excuse to fall back on if they got caught.