Judge denies most of Vikings' Williamses' claims

[Chevelle2]

Ok, without bickering, can someone just tell me where this situation stands? Are they suspended, are they not suspended? When will we know? What are we waiting on? Etc

Thanks

[Patler]

Yes they can, and probably will, still be suspended. It is still a victory. For a judge to see enough questionable material as to block a suspension, temporary or not, is a victory for the players.

Not much of one if they are ultimately suspended. If a player in any league contests any suspension through league channels, the suspension is postponed until the player has a chance to be heard. No different in court, for the same reasons. Since a suspension can never be "undone" all the player needs to show is some reasonable argument, and equities are such as to postpone the suspension.

[Patler]

It had nothing to do with counter suits. The judge blocked the suspensions and the NFL appealed it. It then went to a higher court, the players and NFLPA added counter suits, and the higher court sent it back to the state courts after throwing out the counter suits.

But there is now less that the state court can or will decide. It's arguable how much the players have left to argue in the state court.

[SMACKTALKIE]

Ok, without bickering, can someone just tell me where this situation stands? Are they suspended, are they not suspended? When will we know? What are we waiting on? Etc

Thanks

Not suspended, or suspension blocked so currently not suspended. The injunction was put in place for the judge to review all the material. The judge kicked the case (for the suspensions) down to the state court where the players are hoping to get the suspensions overturned.

Not sure when this will be resolved but hopefully soon.

[SMACKTALKIE]

Yes they can, and probably will, still be suspended. It is still a victory. For a judge to see enough questionable material as to block a suspension, temporary or not, is a victory for the players.

Not much of one if they are ultimately suspended. If a player in any league contests any suspension through league channels, the suspension is postponed until the player has a chance to be heard. No different in court, for the same reasons. Since a suspension can never be "undone" all the player needs to show is some reasonable argument, and equities are such as to postpone the suspension.

Those league channels were applied or taken in this case too. To take an issue governed by something as iron clad as the CBA to court is a victory.

[SMACKTALKIE]

It had nothing to do with counter suits. The judge blocked the suspensions and the NFL appealed it. It then went to a higher court, the players and NFLPA added counter suits, and the higher court sent it back to the state courts after throwing out the counter suits.

But there is now less that the state court can or will decide. It's arguable how much the players have left to argue in the state court.

The core arguement...... that this is unfair and the NFL did not fulfill it's obligation to the players, and then still suspended them, is still intact. The only arguements left are the suspensions, which under Minnesota state law bodes well for the players.

[Patler]

Yes they can, and probably will, still be suspended. It is still a victory. For a judge to see enough questionable material as to block a suspension, temporary or not, is a victory for the players.

Not much of one if they are ultimately suspended. If a player in any league contests any suspension through league channels, the suspension is postponed until the player has a chance to be heard. No different in court, for the same reasons. Since a suspension can never be "undone" all the player needs to show is some reasonable argument, and equities are such as to postpone the suspension.

Those league channels were applied or taken in this case too. To take an issue governed by something as iron clad as the CBA to court is a victory.

You don't really believe that in the US judicial system, do you? Getting into court is a simple thing, just file a complaint. It doesn't take much to avoid being thrown out initially, and that is all the farther this gotten in the state court. We'll see if there really was any "victory" there or not.

[SMACKTALKIE]

Yes they can, and probably will, still be suspended. It is still a victory. For a judge to see enough questionable material as to block a suspension, temporary or not, is a victory for the players.

Not much of one if they are ultimately suspended. If a player in any league contests any suspension through league channels, the suspension is postponed until the player has a chance to be heard. No different in court, for the same reasons. Since a suspension can never be "undone" all the player needs to show is some reasonable argument, and equities are such as to postpone the suspension.

Those league channels were applied or taken in this case too. To take an issue governed by something as iron clad as the CBA to court is a victory.

You don't really believe that in the US judicial system, do you? Getting into court is a simple thing, just file a complaint. It doesn't take much to avoid being thrown out initially, and that is all the farther this gotten in the state court. We'll see if there really was any "victory" there or not.

U.S. District Judges dont review minor or everyday complaints. And you should note that the NFL filed notice that it will appeal the portion of judge Magnuson's order that remanded the two remaining claims by the players to state court because they involve Minnesota laws.

[Patler]

U.S. District Judges dont review minor or everyday complaints. And you should note that the NFL filed notice that it will appeal the portion of judge Magnuson's order that remanded the two remaining claims by the players to state court because they involve Minnesota laws.

They review everything that states a cause of action (not a high standard)and has federal jurisdiction. I doubt either was hard to find in this situation.

[Fritz]

Damnit, all of you are missing the central point:

"Starcaps" are those little chocolatey things you used to buy in the movie theater. They were made by Brachs, they were shaped like stars, and they tasted like wax.

So if these guys were taking some herbal diuretic addictive lethal needle-injecting, masking, just-a-energy drink thing, then give it another name!

[ThunderDan]

None. I don't know if anyone does. But a good reason for an NFL player to take starcaps is because they were labled "all natural" and did not list bumetanide, or any other banned substance as an ingredient.

Either way, there are enough questionable circumstances to warrant legal attention. Which may be a good reason to think they know it came from StarCaps.

Right or wrong, there is also enough money involved to warrant legal attention. They lost on every argument related to the StarCaps excuse...

From the decision:
"The (league's) policy is unequivocal: players are responsible for what is in their bodies, and inadvertent ingestion of a banned substance will not excuse a positive test result."

"Through the hot line, the NFL was attempting to tell players what they already knew: they should not take dietary supplements. NFL players are adults. They are warned repeatedly not to take dietary supplements and that such supplements may cause a positive test for a banned substance"

They lost their counter suits. Please remember that a Federal District Court Judge blocked the NFL imposed 4 game suspension. That was and still is a huge victory.

Not for the players. I am sure their 2009 base salaries are higher than their 2008 salaries. The suspension this year will cost them more money.

[Patler]

Damnit, all of you are missing the central point:

"Starcaps" are those little chocolatey things you used to buy in the movie theater. They were made by Brachs, they were shaped like stars, and they tasted like wax.

So if these guys were taking some herbal diuretic addictive lethal needle-injecting, masking, just-a-energy drink thing, then give it another name!

Was there really a candy by that name?

[Fritz]

I actually looked it up. They are actually called "Star Drops."

http://www.candywarehouse.com/chocolatestar.html

Oops. Never mind.

So how 'bout them Williams boys and the court system? How about that stuff, eh?

[sharpe1027]

The core arguement...... that this is unfair and the NFL did not fulfill it's obligation to the players, and then still suspended them, is still intact. The only arguements left are the suspensions, which under Minnesota state law bodes well for the players.

The article said the only issue left was one of procedure about a Minnesota State law (something about whether they could test at all). The "core argument" you mentioned is completely dead (barring an appeal).

Are you suggesting that just by taking time to look a the case, the Judge validated the Williams boy's positions? The Judge blasted them essentially saying they were acting like children and had nothing whatsoever to stand on.

[Rastak]

The core arguement...... that this is unfair and the NFL did not fulfill it's obligation to the players, and then still suspended them, is still intact. The only arguements left are the suspensions, which under Minnesota state law bodes well for the players.

The article said the only issue left was one of procedure about a Minnesota State law (something about whether they could test at all). The "core argument" you mentioned is completely dead (barring an appeal).

Are you suggesting that just by taking time to look a the case, the Judge validated the Williams boy's positions? The Judge blasted them essentially saying they were acting like children and had nothing whatsoever to stand on.

You might want to read the transcript of the first hearing....I read the entire thing and he really laid into the NFL. In his ruling this month he called the NFL's actions baffling but ruled on a point of law and his personal opinions didn't enter into the decision.


There are two Minnesota statutes that the NFL may be violating but I have to say I have to agree if they win it's mostly technicalities. I'm sure the player will put a stop to this in CBA negotiations. I think an independent overseer is needed to run this program and the dissemination of information and a REAL appeal process will be a big part of it. You have to ban things that can be used as masking agents, I certainly agree there but it should be more of a partnership as opposed to this extremely tight lipped adversarial thing they have now.