Nelson or Jones

[RashanGary]

Straight line speed is overrated. Jones can get up and go and plays fast on the field.

[RashanGary]

And I'm not Jones biggest fan or anything, but damn, what do you expect? The guy showed he was a starting caliber WR as a rookie. Sure he had some inconsistencies as a rookie and was injured last year, but any reasonable thinking person has to expect that those are things he can be expected to overcome. Liking Nelson is one thing, but calling Jones a #3 receiver and not much more is just not true IMO. He'll shatter that opinion.

[HarveyWallbangers]

33 receivers had over 800 yards last season. If James Jones can be 125 yards better than he was in his rookie season as a 22 year old kid out of San Jose State, then he'll be in the top 33. That's not borderline legit #3 receiver numbers unless you think borderline #1 WR numbers are what you should expect out of your #3/#4 WR.

I'd call Jones a legit starting talent.

I don't judge receivers purely on numbers. It's also apples to oranges. Hard to compare the numbers for receivers on the 2007 Packers compared to the 2008 Ravens, for example. A lot depends on QB, system, number of passing attempts. Jones got a lot of PT as a rookie (lots of multi-receiver, Jennings got nicked a couple of times).

Based purely on numbers, Bill Schroeder was a solid starting WR for a few years. Don't buy it. Like I said, Jones surprised some people his rookie year. You could look at the numbers like this: since the midway point of his rookie year, he has less than 500 yards receiving.

I'd like to point out again that I don't think he's a bad receiver. I just don't see the upside that you do. He certainly can get better on his focus and yards after catch. If he does that, I expect him to reach his potential as a decent #2 WR. I still think his speed limits his upside.

[RashanGary]

Anquan Boldin was a 4.7 guy coming out of college. Jones is a 4.6 guy. Why is speed a limiting factor for our guy but not for Boldin?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Straight line speed is overrated. Jones can get up and go and plays fast on the field.

It can be, but there aren't that many guys who have below average speed and average height who turn into stars.

[Partial]

Always bet on black!

2nded.

[RashanGary]

We're just going to disagree all day on this. I think 4.6 speed is solid for a WR and if the WR is as supremely talented as Jones in every other area, it's a complete non-issue. Completely overblown.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Anquan Boldin was a 4.7 guy coming out of college. Jones is a 4.6 guy. Why is speed a limiting factor for our guy but not for Boldin?

How many guys like Boldin are out there? Boldin is much better after the catch than Jones. Not even in the same league.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

33 receivers had over 800 yards last season. If James Jones can be 125 yards better than he was in his rookie season as a 22 year old kid out of San Jose State, then he'll be in the top 33. That's not borderline legit #3 receiver numbers unless you think borderline #1 WR numbers are what you should expect out of your #3/#4 WR.

I'd call Jones a legit starting talent.

Even for you, this is some pretty poor logic.

For instance, there are different offenses and how much they throw...so, not all yards are the same. Some teams also use their WRs more than their TEs..or some use their rbs more than others.

Your 800 number essentially means nothing. You can't compare our offense directly to others...doing so devalues other teams like Pitt who dont' throw the ball like we do.

Or would you like to argue that Donnie Avery is 126 yards from being a #1 receiver, Bobby Wade is 150 or so, Dom Hixon is a mere 200 or so, etc.

Mr. Jones has yet to show or prove that he is a starting talent. He had one nice season...one that more fumbles than tds..and one that also includes fading down the stretch. And, he had one sub optimal season...20 receptions in 10 games.

Mr. Jones would appear to have the ability to start, but so did Derrick Mayes. He needs to cut down on the drops, tighten his routes, improve his blocking, and run more aggressively after the catch.

[RashanGary]

For a WR, height has to be the most overrated measurable there is.

James Jones 6'1"


Steve Smith 5'9"
Roddy White 6'0"
Greg Jennings 5'11"
Antonio Bryant 6'1"
Wes Welker 5'9"
Reggie Wayne 6'0"

6 of the top 10 receivers from last year are James Jones height or shorter. Welker runs a 4.6 and is shorter. Jennings runs high 4.45+. Roddy White 4.45+. Antonio Bryant 4.57. Wayne and Smith are burners.


Bryant is the same height and speed
Welker is shorter and slower

And that's just looking in last years top 10 WR's.



There is a give take with height. It's nice to find tall guys who can move. They are the rarest, but there are a lot more great WR's that are about Jones height than there are great WR's that are 6'5". The shorter you are, the lower your center of gravity and better your change of direction. Last I checked, football was a game of agility more than it is a track meet and I think the stats of the top WR's would echo that.

[pbmax]

Source? I've never heard this before. It was my understanding that Martin was the best blocker followed by Driver.

In the writeups I just perused (McGinn on JSO end of season tallies), Martin is listed as the best blocker followed by Nelson. If you recall, McCarthy spent some serious time devising formations to get Martin and Nelson in at WR at the same time and running with them blocking.

[RashanGary]

Ty and HW, I agree. The numbers do not tell the whole story, but Jones is an impressive dude. He's a good starter, I really believe that. It's our deepest position, so he's not starting for us, but he'd start for every one of our divisional opponents IMO.

And I agree. He needs to tighten his routes, clean up the mental errors and improve hsi ball security from his rookie year. All of those things, I see as probably to improve. I see that as him just being a rook.

And he tailed off because Favre loved Koren. It was stupid IMO. JOnes was better.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Anquan Boldin was a 4.7 guy coming out of college. Jones is a 4.6 guy. Why is speed a limiting factor for our guy but not for Boldin?

Are you seriously going to compare these 2? Look, it is a game called football, and Q is, was and most likely always will be a better football player than Jones, not to mention WR.

Q was Mr. Football in Florida.
Q played QB in high school, transitioned to WR in college
Q is on the Florida all century high school team
Q played WR and QB at FSU
Q played TWENTY THREE games at WR at FSU, ran a slow combine and still went in the 2nd.
FSU>SJS

Jones was a good high school athlete and played QB.
Jones was "good" enough to be recruited by noted power..San Jose State
Jones was "a guy" for 3 years at SJS
Jones had ONE good/great year as a senior
Jones was 2nd team WAC (what does that tell you)

He played in the WAC. Can you be a good player from the WAC, yes. Is it a hotbed of NFL talent, no. Bet you are still waiting for Lelie to be great, Paul Williams, Davone Bess, Caleb Spencer (2nd team like jones in 06), Legedu Naanee, etc.

The race isn't always to the swift and strong, but that is the way to bet!

[RashanGary]

The point was that "Q" was slow and no taller than Jones yet he is a great player. Then I showed all the other players that were in the same height/speed range. There are a lot of top receivers in that range.

Harvey's main point is Jones is limited by speed and height. I disagree with that and I don't think he's anquan Boldin. I don't think I ever made that point.

[HarveyWallbangers]

For a WR, height has to be the most overrated measurable there is.

Unless, you're not very fast. Traits I look for in a WR - hands, route running, size, speed, quickness, toughness, ability after the catch. How do you think JJ rates in each of these?