Nelson or Jones

[SkinBasket]

This is the kind of stuff that makes me realize why people around here think Rodgers is such a stud. They think every QB in the NFL is average and don't understand the importance.

We're all idiots. Football is the game with the pointy ball right?

[Partial]

Are you implying that San Jose State is as good of a football school as KS?

I have seen SJS play. They're on ESPN a lot on Friday nights I feel like. I certainly don't think they've had a Josh Freeman type QB, though.

I don't know how they would compare straight up, but they don't compete against the same quality of opposition as Kansas St. would either. WAC versus Big 12. And the pass first K State offense isn't quite as pass first as you seem to imply. And San Jose St. isn't exactly 3 yards and a cloud of dust either.

And so we are left with an argument that A is better than B because of Factor Y. Yet it is ignored that Factor Y cuts for and against both sides of the argument. So as per usual, we are left with nothing but heated words and a position unestablished by any fact.

And by the way, if Nelson can produce numbers at the combine while 2 inches taller and 10 lbs heavier, I think by definition he might be the better athlete and again by definition, a better pro prospect.

Which was my original point. Jones has done more so far and has two years in. I think he has the inside position to be #3. But Nelson is going to make a leap this year and next, and if he capitalizes on his gifts, he stands to be the better pro.

I don't disagree with you at all

The only comment on the athleticism was stating that comparing a guy in a huge, competitive state like Cali to Kansas is a bit unfair.

I have no idea who's going to be better. Jones seems to be a play maker though thus far imo. As I've noted, I haven't seen anything stick out from Nelson the way I saw Jones in his rookie year. That could be any number of factors.

We're in agreement

[SkinBasket]

There's more footballs in California than there are in Kansas, therefore California footballs are better. Lesson learned. Buy California footballs. The pointy ones.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't know what point being made was, but Kansas State hasn't traditionally nor recently been a football factory. Historically, they haven't been good. Then, they went through a period where they were good. However, considering their record the last several years, I'm thinking they are back to being not very good.

2004 - 4-7
2005 - 5-6
2006 - 7-6
2007 - 5-7
2008 - 5-7

They are 26-33 over the last 5 years.

[CaptainD]

Nelson not even close.

[Lurker64]

I think Partial has a point re: Kansas vs. California insofar as we're comparing statewide competition. Nelson having the High School State Track Record in the 100m would be more impressive if he held it in California than if he held it in Kansas. Since there are more people in California, so you have a lot more competition to be the very best at something.

On the other hand, insofar as football competitions are concerned, it's hard to argue that there isn't a higher level of football played in the Big 12 than there is in the WAC. The Big 12 is a very good conference historically, the WAC has only recently featured 2-3 good teams whose impressive records are somewhat indicted by their suspect competition.

I like the WAC a lot, but it's nowhere near in the class of the Big 12.

[pbmax]

I think Partial has a point re: Kansas vs. California insofar as we're comparing statewide competition. Nelson having the High School State Track Record in the 100m would be more impressive if he held it in California than if he held it in Kansas. Since there are more people in California, so you have a lot more competition to be the very best at something.

Agreed. But even better would be a number to compare the two and not just inferring by population.

Jordy Nelson: 3A - Jordy Nelson, Riley-Riley County, 10.63—2003

At his size, I think Jordy has better upside athletically and pointy-ballly (thanks Skin). But like everyone else, he has got to do it on the field.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It's absolutely fair to compare a Cali athlete to a Kansas athlete, too, while we're at it with the eye rolling Might as well start comparing some of the oak creek boys to the football players of Florida or Texas...

Jones stayed close to home for school. I really don't have a problem with that and neither should you. That's the only reason he was the more decorated college receiver. That, and the fact Jordy played in a pass first offense with a quarterback who went as a #1.

I cannot remember a single big play that Jordy made where I thought "wow". I remember several from Jones. I have no idea who will be the better player, hopefully they're both great, but to this point I think Jones has shown more and I don't see the "awesomeness" some of you see in Jordy. I might rank Ruvell ahead of him to be honest. I at least remember Ruvell stepping up and making some plays.

Who is comparing athletes by state. I am merely pointing out that jordy was an athlete...and asking for the basis of his judgement.

But, your point is dumb. Recruiters do evaluate players across the states and compare them. Yes, you do compare a wisco athlete with a florida. That is why we recruit in multiple states..but, that doesn't mean that wisco can't produce a 5 star recruit.

Stayed home: Yeah, that is what happened. Get serious. He went to SJS because that was his best option. Just like Jordy went to Kansas..because he walked on.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I might rank Ruvell ahead of him to be honest.

That is not surprising. Is Ruvell revolutionizing the position of WR from the bench? If only we ran the wildcat...

Fuck, you are dumb.

Ruvell wouldn't run the wildcat...they are working on a whole new offense that compliments his skillset.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

James Jones is the more athletically gifted of the 2 and the one who is more apt to get you YAC.

It's absolutely fair to compare a Cali athlete to a Kansas athlete, too, while we're at it with the eye rolling

Beautiful. Absent facts, one person compares "athletics" and the other their state. More and more I am surprised that we all don't still believe the world is flat.

Wide Receivers...School.........Ht......Wt  	 40    	20    	10  	Vert.  	Broad  	Shuttle  	3Cone
Jordy Nelson  	Kansas State   6'3  	217  	4.51  	2.64  	1.57  	31  	 10'03"  	4.35  	  7.03
Jones, James  	San Jose St.   6'1" 	207  	4.54  	2.65  	1.54     34"   	9'11"     4.20       7.06

And as you can see, they're close. My point is saying the state was it takes a heck of a lot more to be recognized in Cali than it does in Kansas. Far more good athletes due to higher population.

Cept you are wrong, as usual.

Jordy despite being a kansas record holder in track and various accolades in football....walked on.

College recruiters find you..if you are in cali, hawaii, or kansas.

[ThunderDan]

You can tout the ravens card, but anyone who has any understanding of statistics at all can look at the raw data and decipher that is clearly a statistically anomaly.

Sorry Partial, but this line from you is a complete laugher!!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think Partial has a point re: Kansas vs. California insofar as we're comparing statewide competition. Nelson having the High School State Track Record in the 100m would be more impressive if he held it in California than if he held it in Kansas. Since there are more people in California, so you have a lot more competition to be the very best at something.

On the other hand, insofar as football competitions are concerned, it's hard to argue that there isn't a higher level of football played in the Big 12 than there is in the WAC. The Big 12 is a very good conference historically, the WAC has only recently featured 2-3 good teams whose impressive records are somewhat indicted by their suspect competition.

I like the WAC a lot, but it's nowhere near in the class of the Big 12.

Lurker,

This is a false argument created by Partial.

Cornholio posited that Jones was a better athlete. I merely listed Jordy's accomplishments. That wasnt' to say they were better or worse than Jones...only to say that anyone who is all state and is a record holder is prolly a good athlete...and that he had no basis for his statement.

You will notice in my post i never made the jump to..because he did this..he is better. I merely poked a little hole in the argument.

And, then boom..pb comes in with the facts..and behold..jordy is comparable.

[ThunderDan]

I think Partial has a point re: Kansas vs. California insofar as we're comparing statewide competition. Nelson having the High School State Track Record in the 100m would be more impressive if he held it in California than if he held it in Kansas. Since there are more people in California, so you have a lot more competition to be the very best at something.

The problem with that logic is the following:

I'd rather have the US 100m champion over Bolt from Jamaica because the US has a much larger population and therefore harder to win the national 100m record.

I would look at times not how many people competed in a specific area.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You can tout the ravens card, but anyone who has any understanding of statistics at all can look at the raw data and decipher that is clearly a statistically anomaly.

Sorry Partial, but this line from you is a complete laugher!!

Paging partial, mr. madoff needs new analysts.

[Lurker64]

Ruvell wouldn't run the wildcat...they are working on a whole new offense that compliments his skillset.

Wait, if you were going to use anybody as your Wildcat QB, why wouldn't it be Ruvell? Back in 2007, when the only players listed as QB on the roster were Favre and Rodgers, Ruvell Martin was penciled in as the emergency 3rd string backup QB (as well as Charles Woodson, some weeks), and it probably wasn't due to his passing ability (though he was an all-state QB in high school, I don't have a clue what offense he played in).

Note that I don't see the Packers running the Wildcat with anybody... though they did occasionally run that play in 2007 where Favre split out wide and Driver lined up as the QB...