The Packers' Roster, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Deputy Nutz]

Thompson and company had a lot of interesting decisions to make over the past couple of days to trim this roster down to the league standard. Thompson has kept this team the youngest 4 straight years in a row, so decision are becoming harder and harder to make because he is cutting guys strictly on potential right now. It is hard to compare the work on the field between a second year player and a rookie. They are all going to be raw in terms of technique, so I suppose that all the coaches and Ted have to go on is future potential.

The good,

Trading Tony Moll for Derrick Martin. Trading a player that was going to be cut is always a good move. Moll just never panned out. He was always a step to slow, never strong enough, and younger players with more potential apparently stepped up. Moll was versatile, but he was just never good enough at tackle, or guard to contribute on a consistent basis. Martin is one of those players that apparently has more potential than Anthony Smith who had his good moments, and also some below average moments during the pre season. It was most likely a case of inconsistency that has followed Smith around the NFL.

Cutting Brian Brohm and then being able to resign him to the practice squad. Apparently Thompson caught his poor decision in drafting Brohm in the second round of the 2008 draft and spent little time in wasting a roster spot on him. Luckily it is not a total loss because the Packers still have him on the practice squad where he can hopefully get some things straightened out and move is NFL career along. He will most likely never contribute to the Packers in the regular season but maybe he can become trade bait down the line.

The Bad

Keeping three fullbacks is never a good thing. If Kuhn and Hall were good enough to make this roster for two straight years, having both of them contribute significantly on offense and special teams why draft another fullback? Best player available, and that was Quinn Johnson, but keeping all three of them really forces the team to cut depth at other positions namely quarterback, and the offensive line.

Only having one back up offensive tackle could put this team in a bind. I am sure if Clifton went down Colledge would move over to left tackle, Spitz to left guard, Wells at center, but that is alot of shifting around and on paper is weakens three positions instead of just one.

The Ugly

Ruvell Martin being cut. I suppose he just didn't offer enough on special teams but there is no way Brett Swain is a better receiver than Martin. I some point this year, injuries are going to happen to the receiving corps and that fifth wideout is going to have to play offense, and I was always pleased with Martin's ability to step up at wide receiver.

Justin Harrell back on IR. This really hurts the team. He was looking pretty good for the first couple weeks of camp and to see him hit the training room again, and this time for the whole season is a huge disappointment. Currently the Packers only have two nose tackles on the roster, and now Raji is a bit banged up and sure he can rotate between end and nose, but the hope was that he was going to be a starter at one of the defensive end positions. You can't have your back up nose tackle starting at a different position. You need a consistent rotation at nose tackle.

Keeping 9 linebackers, good for special teams but unfortunate that the Packers could not work out a trade for one of them. Brad Jones can thank his stars that he is on this roster. He might be one of those potential type of players but I just didn't see it in the preseason.

[Lurker64]

I don't think keeping 9 LBs is all that much of an ugly thing. it's fairly common for 3-4 teams actually; the Chargers have 9, the Browns have 9, the Cowboys have 9, the Ravens have 10, the Chiefs have 10, the 49ers have 9, etc.

8-10 is just the number of linebackers that 3-4 teams keep.

[Partial]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't think keeping 9 LBs is all that much of an ugly thing. it's fairly common for 3-4 teams actually; the Chargers have 9, the Browns have 9, the Cowboys have 9, the Ravens have 10, the Chiefs have 10, the 49ers have 9, etc.

8-10 is just the number of linebackers that 3-4 teams keep.

I guess. I just wanted to see another 6th round pick in 2010.

[Lurker64]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

By MM do you mean "Michael Montgomery", the defensive end? If so, you're in luck. He's on the roster.

We have five guys who can play defensive end (Raji, Jenkins, Jolly, Montgomery, Wynn) and two guys who can play NT (Pickett, Raji). We'll only dress 5 DL for most games, most likely (with either Wynn or Montgomery sitting, depending on who we're playing). I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of depth at NT than the lack of depth at DE. At least we landed Toribio on the practice squad, since behind Raji and Pickett we have nobody who won't get us killed at NT.

Edit: Also, 6 DL is also about standard for 3-4 teams rosters. The Ravens have 5, the Cowboys have 6, the 49ers have 7, the Chiefs have 6, the Browns have 6, the Chargers have 6, etc.

[KYPack]

With you all the way on the triple FB's. That shows me a lack of decisiveness. Cut one of those guys. Keep the kid, he shows potential. but btw Kuhn & hall, you can cut one of 'em. Hall is an average blocker and his only upside is his pass catching. He's advertised as a great ST guy, but I don't see that either. I think we should have made the move on one of 'em and opened one roster spot to keep Lansanah or somebody.

Martin was on the bubble and then had two fugly pre-season games. He botched a spot on FG, and made a lot of shit plays. Hell, he even fumbled a punt. It added up to gone. But it was too bad, I really liked the guy. he never really developed and it cost him big time.

[Waldo]

Re: The Packers' Roster, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

He might be one of those potential type of players but I just didn't see it in the preseason.

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.

He is weak and can't hold the point against the run right now. Then again none of our OLB's can.

He is a speed rusher. Matthews has the physical traits, but USC is more of a power rush team and teaches their guys to go through, not around. Jones can go around. He's very fast off the line and he has nice bend around the corner. Very KGB like. But he needs a counter. He has a very good basic rush, but for most studs the counters is where they make their hay. Jones' outside speed rush is definitely good enough to work counters off of.

[pbmax]

Re: The Packers' Roster, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Ruvell is still waiting for an offer to join a team. It would seem the league thinks he is quite average for a replacement level receiver. I think Swain can come close. More importantly, given where Swain will be used, he has better skills for the role he will most often play.

There is no doubt Brohm's future is questionable. Teams don't give up on 2nd round picks, esp. QBs, very easily. But he did have multiple offers from teams willing to give him a chance on the PS. And many quarterbacks have taken multiple years to develop. Even this message board and McGinn disagree whether Rodgers had truly progressed in his second preseason. I think Brohm is behind Rodgers development curve, but after two years, there is no reason to write him off completely. It used to be accepted wisdom that it took five years to learn to be an NFL QB. If it takes Brohm 3 to show he has started to figure it out, there shouldn't be much surprise. T2 can't count on him and he may need to draft another QB, but one more year is a small price to pay for his physical skills. Perhaps KYPack could break down his offense in college? He seems much more confident on a 3 step drop with one pre-snap read. Was his college offense predicated on that?

I agree on the O Line and tackle. I would like to see another there. And I am not in favor of sliding Colledge around. Guard is his best position. But I think if he has to move, Lang will be given a shot at LG rather than Spitz. He has played it this year, Spitz has not. If there is an issue with Sitton, I would expect Spitz to move right and Wells to fill in at C.

Having Harrell would have been huge, as the only physical specimen on the team like him is Raji, who is shorter.

But the 3 FB math has me confused. If we carried two last year, and then added a third, we lost one roster spot. You could say it was Brohm, or perhaps Meredith, but not both.

[Waldo]

With you all the way on the triple FB's. That shows me a lack of decisiveness.

Shows me that they want to win this year.

Instead of keeping raw potential that will be of little use, they kept a lot of big time ST contributors.

When the team makes a commitment to ST over future potential, it is a sign that they think that they are contenders right now and that their window is open.

[boiga]

I don't think you guys need to worry as much as you are about the NT situation. First off, there are guys that could do the job in an emergency situation. Johnny Jolly is only 10 pounds lighter than Pickett, and while it wouldn't be his best position, he could probably get us to the end of the game in an injury situation.

Secondly, the NT won't be on the field during any passing down situations. The nickel defense is a 2-4-5 in which we have the two ends and who ever blitzes rushing the passer. The NT gets those downs off, which should cut down on any fatigue worries.

In regards to keeping 3 FB's, I still don't see your worry. Kuhn is our emergency 4th halfback so we can afford to keep the extra special teams skills with out a major drop off.


And while Ruvell is a great guy, the 5th WR's main responsibility is special teams. That's where they'll show the most impact because enough passes will never be thrown their way. Also, Ruvell's simply became obsolete on this team with the emergence of Finley. Ruvell's a tall powerful WR that can run a nice route at middling speed and block downfield. Finley's taller, faster, stronger, and seems to have better hands. So all those TD passes that Arod would have sent towards Martin last year are now going to Finley whether Ruvell's on the roster or not.

Swain's a different kind of receiver with greater acceleration than Ruvell. He can run in the slot and potentially develop into Driver's replacement. Ruvell's as good as he is going to get. Swain has more potential and is better at special teams. Ruvell's a great guy, but that doesn't earn a roster spot.

[KYPack]

Re: The Packers' Roster, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

He might be one of those potential type of players but I just didn't see it in the preseason.

I think that Jones has the highest ceiling of any in this draft class. He looked crazy good in coverage compared to the rest of our OLB's. Dom had him over slot WR's vs. Tn and he didn't get burned.

He is weak and can't hold the point against the run right now. Then again none of our OLB's can.

He is a speed rusher. Matthews has the physical traits, but USC is more of a power rush team and teaches their guys to go through, not around. Jones can go around. He's very fast off the line and he has nice bend around the corner. Very KGB like. But he needs a counter. He has a very good basic rush, but for most studs the counters is where they make their hay. Jones' outside speed rush is definitely good enough to work counters off of.

I'm with ya on this. I must have seen all of Jones poor plays in pre-season. Matthews played like, one game at LB at USC. He was a DE last season. I think the hammy is still bothering him. He appears to need at least a season under his belt to get things down. To me, Popp was the best player at that ROLB. He can hold the point and his cover was OK for a 3-4 OLB. I'm hoping Brady gives us a good year and Jones and Matthews find their stride.

[Lurker64]

I also think the Ruvell cut was largely made not just because Swain is a superior ST player with more upside, but also because with the emergence of Finley as a pass receiving threat, Ruvell was largely expendable. Ruvell's role as a receiver was largely "be tall" and "have good hands" both of which are just as true of Finley as they are of Martin. Despite Finley outweighing Martin by a good 40 pounds, I don't think Jermichael gives up much in the way of speed to Martin either.

I think in most of our "5 WR sets" the fifth 'WR' will be Finley, and not Swain.

[Partial]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

By MM do you mean "Michael Montgomery", the defensive end? If so, you're in luck. He's on the roster.

We have five guys who can play defensive end (Raji, Jenkins, Jolly, Montgomery, Wynn) and two guys who can play NT (Pickett, Raji). We'll only dress 5 DL for most games, most likely (with either Wynn or Montgomery sitting, depending on who we're playing). I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of depth at NT than the lack of depth at DE. At least we landed Toribio on the practice squad, since behind Raji and Pickett we have nobody who won't get us killed at NT.

MM is a jag. Would rather not have him anywhere on the roster. IMO, they should have brought in a guy to play ahead of MM, than kept MM as well since Jenkins is going to get hurt and they need the depth. Too bad Harrell couldn't have been the guy ahead of MM.

They are going to need to invest 3ish picks into the line next year as I doubt they will resign Jenkins (up in two years) and Jolly (up after this season). They will probably resign Pickett if he does well.

If Jenkins can stay healthy for two years, without a doubt they will keep him. The only knock is his injury history.

I'm not crazy about the DL at all to be honest. Raji missed out on a ton of time in camp and missed out on playing a huge role. I also believe his potential for injury is higher, and with Jenkins likely to get hurt, they can ill-afford to have two of their guys hurt on the line.

For all the comments about Martin, I will make one counter point: Why do all-star teams fail? They're loaded with talent, and even with plenty of time together, they still don't have chemistry. If this move throws off chemistry of the team, especially the QB, this team could quickly go from contender (which I believe tehy are) to pretender. I don't like the move at all. Martin seemed like a close friend and stablizing rock to many people. Keep the rock.

[Lurker64]

They are going to need to invest 3ish picks into the line next year as I doubt they will resign Jenkins (up in two years) and Jolly (up after this season). They will probably resign Pickett if he does well.

It actually wouldn't surprise me if they did, next year is a fabulous class of DTs and there are roughly 14 DTs (most of whom would project better to 5-technique than nose) who have first round potential.

Arthur Jones from Syracuse or Vince Oghobaase out of Duke would be a fine first round pick, come April.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I agree with you 100% on these points as well. I think another ugly should be banking on 6 DL when Jenkins has a pretty big injury history. I don't know if there was another worth keeping, but it would have been really nice to have MM as an extra guy to keep around instead of having to play him during games. Too bad Harrell's back is f'd up.

By MM do you mean "Michael Montgomery", the defensive end? If so, you're in luck. He's on the roster.

We have five guys who can play defensive end (Raji, Jenkins, Jolly, Montgomery, Wynn) and two guys who can play NT (Pickett, Raji). We'll only dress 5 DL for most games, most likely (with either Wynn or Montgomery sitting, depending on who we're playing). I'm a lot more concerned about the lack of depth at NT than the lack of depth at DE. At least we landed Toribio on the practice squad, since behind Raji and Pickett we have nobody who won't get us killed at NT.

MM is a jag. Would rather not have him anywhere on the roster. IMO, they should have brought in a guy to play ahead of MM, than kept MM as well since Jenkins is going to get hurt and they need the depth. Too bad Harrell couldn't have been the guy ahead of MM.

They are going to need to invest 3ish picks into the line next year as I doubt they will resign Jenkins (up in two years) and Jolly (up after this season). They will probably resign Pickett if he does well.

If Jenkins can stay healthy for two years, without a doubt they will keep him. The only knock is his injury history.

I'm not crazy about the DL at all to be honest. Raji missed out on a ton of time in camp and missed out on playing a huge role. I also believe his potential for injury is higher, and with Jenkins likely to get hurt, they can ill-afford to have two of their guys hurt on the line.

For all the comments about Martin, I will make one counter point: Why do all-star teams fail? They're loaded with talent, and even with plenty of time together, they still don't have chemistry. If this move throws off chemistry of the team, especially the QB, this team could quickly go from contender (which I believe tehy are) to pretender. I don't like the move at all. Martin seemed like a close friend and stablizing rock to many people. Keep the rock.

Why is Raji's potential for injury higher? Higher than what?

What all-star teams fail? Which teams are you referring to?

If ruvell is a "glue guy" or a chemistry guy...and cutting him means we lose chemistry then we are in a world of hurt. You are grasping, and it ain't pretty.

Ruvell may be a great guy and friend, but everybody on the packers knows it is a busines...and ruvell ain't DD. More to the point, how do you know there aren't more guys on the squad like RM?

As of now, Ruvell hasn't been claimed or signed...what does that tell you?

This is another one of your Money Morency moments. And, Money Morency is out of the league.