Rebuilding the OL, again

[KYPack]

Well, something strange has happened to Tony Moll this season. No one seems to have a clear idea what he is up to.

The NFL Gamebook for Nov. 8, Balt @ Cincy has Moll inactive.

Gamebook from Oct. 11, Cincy @ Balt has Moll active and substituting at Guard. Did not start though.

Oher was the starting RT and played most of the snaps. I saw Tony suited up, but he was on the sidelines when Balt had the ball. He may have got some PT, but he was no factor or anything.

I wanted to bring this up & may go into it more. Lemme tell ya where the Bengals have the Packers ass whipped. OLine coach. Paul Alexander has put together a big, tall, tough NFL Oline in a couple years. The line from their success in '05 & '06 is all gone.

The Bengals went out on the NFL scrap heap and got guys from the Vikings, Philly, and Carolina, street free agents and have a solid group. They run zone AND power gap for the run game. Their pass pro technique is impeccable and Carson Palmer has a solid platform from which to make his throws. The Pack's Oline is smaller, has poorer technique, and collapses more in one game than the Bengals have all year.

There are better ways to get it done, build solid lines on both sides of the ball. I think part of our approach is flawed and it's biting us in the ass every week. The Bengals have 4 OT's that are better than anybody we have on the job. How can this be?

[pbmax]

There are better ways to get it done, build solid lines on both sides of the ball. I think part of our approach is flawed and it's biting us in the ass every week. The Bengals have 4 OT's that are better than anybody we have on the job. How can this be?

Its like everything else on this team, two problems that on their own you could overcome, but together they fail at a high enough rate to kill you.

Smaller line probably needs to execute more cleanly than a larger group and, as you say, our technique is poor. If they were bigger or stronger and had the same technique, at least they would be a larger impediment to the pass rush.

Perhaps its the wrong players and the wrong coach. Both are NFL ready, but not for each other. If this isn't it, I am switching to soccer.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think there is more to look at than just phyiscal play. There have been so many blown assignments and missed calls it is pathetic. The coaching and fundamentals both mentally and physically is a huge disappointment and it is the right thing to do to blame the coaching staff, you have to be able to coach up young players and even veterans.

I am very down on this coaching staff as a whole so I am going to reserve judgement on the offensive line at this point because who really knows where the talent is, if there is any at all.

I think Tony Moll is proof that there is talent on the line. He'll never be a pro bowler, but has played relatively well in Baltimore. That is what has me down on the coaching staff. What did Baltimore see that we missed?

That guy was horribly inconsistent here, and has played consistently there in Baltimore. That HAS to be coaching. You could make a little argument that he'd rather be in Balt. than here, but if that's the case, then why?

I keep seeing this stated in various places. Tony Moll has not started a game for the Ravens. He has only been active for two games. His status there is the same as with the Pack. Emergency G & T, not very good at either position. Moll will be a career back-up and is lucky he's even got that job.

Are you challenging Retail's observations?

Ty is still waiting for RG to respond to the fact that he was BUSTED.

Moll inactive for all but 3 games.

RG could bust me back. The Ravens website says Moll started vs the Bengals. I missed that and I was there! I think that was in error. He wasn't announced as the starter. He played I guess, but the only time I saw him, he was on the sidelines. Not many Raven OLineman will brag about that game. The Bengals whipped the dog shit out of the Raven Oline and they were lucky to get one score.

I read some crap on the net that Joe Flacco was the best QB in the NFL!?! With decent pressure, he is a pretty ordinary dude, IMHO.

He played Sunday like a guy late for work, trying to find his car keys. Very harried.

Well, I watched the Baltimore/Cincy game, and he played and played relatively well. He's also playing some special teams stuff. If you don't focus on taking my quote out of context, as some here do, all too often, you'd see that acknowledged that he won't ever be special. However, compared to Allen Barbre, Moll looks like Willie Anderson.

Ty - I didn't see your smart alec reply, but I probably wouldn't have responded to it anyhow.

Here's what the Ravens website had to say about his play:

2009 (with Baltimore): Started at RT and helped protect QB Joe Flacco, allowing him to complete 18 passes for 195 yards, a 10.8 avg. against the Bengals.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Players/Active/Tony_Moll.aspx

(under pro career)

I'll take Ravens.com opinions over yours, Ty. KY, I'd never bust your ass. I respect your opinions.

What opinion of the Ravens are you taking?

Ty said that you were full of shit, which you are. The ravens site, the one you posted said he has played in 2 games. FACT.

You said he has played relatively well and consistently.

If Moll played 2 games so far from us you wouldn't say he had played relatively well and consistently if he had played 2 games.

Moll has been inactive. FACT.

Folks, notice that he grabbed one section of the Raven's website. How about the rest?

9 (with Baltimore): Started at RT and helped protect QB Joe Flacco, allowing him to complete 18 passes for 195 yards, a 10.8 avg. against the Bengals.

Game 7 vs. Den. (11/1): Was a game-day inactive in the 30-7 victory. FAIL

Game 6 at Min. (10/18): Played on special teams against the Vikings. FAIL

Game 5 vs. Cin. (10/11): Saw his 1st action as a Raven, playing on special teams against the Bengals. FAIL

Game 4 at NE (10/4): Was a game-day inactive against the Patriots. FAIL

Game 3 vs. Cle. (9/27): Was a game-day inactive in the 34-3 victory.FAIL

Game 2 at SD (9/20): Was a game-day inactive in the 31-26 win. FAIL

Game 1 vs. KC (9/13): Was a game-day inactive in the 38-24 win. FAIL

You have been show be a blowhard with your usual agenda. Yes, let's take the Raven's opinion over KY and YOURS. According to them, he has played 1 game on the line...yet, according to you, relatively well and consistently. LOL

Feel free to counter, but you wont' respond because you are a coward and no you are wrong. Let's see if you are man enough to come forward and say that you were wrong. Doubt it.

[Patler]

I think Tony Moll is proof that there is talent on the line. He'll never be a pro bowler, but has played relatively well in Baltimore. That is what has me down on the coaching staff. What did Baltimore see that we missed?

That guy was horribly inconsistent here, and has played consistently there in Baltimore. That HAS to be coaching. You could make a little argument that he'd rather be in Balt. than here, but if that's the case, then why?

I keep seeing this stated in various places. Tony Moll has not started a game for the Ravens. He has only been active for two games. His status there is the same as with the Pack. Emergency G & T, not very good at either position. Moll will be a career back-up and is lucky he's even got that job.

Are you challenging Retail's observations?

Ty is still waiting for RG to respond to the fact that he was BUSTED.

Moll inactive for all but 3 games.

RG could bust me back. The Ravens website says Moll started vs the Bengals. I missed that and I was there! I think that was in error. He wasn't announced as the starter. He played I guess, but the only time I saw him, he was on the sidelines. Not many Raven OLineman will brag about that game. The Bengals whipped the dog shit out of the Raven Oline and they were lucky to get one score.

I read some crap on the net that Joe Flacco was the best QB in the NFL!?! With decent pressure, he is a pretty ordinary dude, IMHO.

He played Sunday like a guy late for work, trying to find his car keys. Very harried.

Well, I watched the Baltimore/Cincy game, and he played and played relatively well. He's also playing some special teams stuff. If you don't focus on taking my quote out of context, as some here do, all too often, you'd see that acknowledged that he won't ever be special. However, compared to Allen Barbre, Moll looks like Willie Anderson.

Ty - I didn't see your smart alec reply, but I probably wouldn't have responded to it anyhow.

Here's what the Ravens website had to say about his play:

2009 (with Baltimore): Started at RT and helped protect QB Joe Flacco, allowing him to complete 18 passes for 195 yards, a 10.8 avg. against the Bengals.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Players/Active/Tony_Moll.aspx

(under pro career)

I'll take Ravens.com opinions over yours, Ty. KY, I'd never bust your ass. I respect your opinions.

The comment on the Ravens website is odd, because the NFL's gamebook does not identify him as a starter in that game. I've known the gamebook to accurately identify opening lineups when the team comes out with two TE's, or multiple WRs. It would be surprising if they missed a starting O-lineman, but I suppose it could have.

Moll was active for two games when they had injuries and had moved Oher from RT to LT. In the two games since, Moll has been inactive again. In that regard, his roster status is even lower than when he was in GB, where he was a game day active player most of the time, except when injured.

Moll seems destined for a career as the 8th or 9th O-lineman, backing up at guard and RT. He will probably be one of those guys who bounces from team to team every couple years, landing wherever a very thin O-line roster exists.

[Fritz]

I'm with KY here. I'm as disappointed in this team as any I've watched in Green Bay, except maybe the post-Super Bowl team of the 90's when it lost to Denver.

This offensive line was supposed to come into its own this year. They're not guys that need a year in the weight room any more, or guys that are still learning the nuances. Outside of Sitton, the nominal beginning of year starters - Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, and Barbre - have a few years under their belts.

Yet it is a rookie who is grading out as the best lineman?

No more time to give. Whether it's coaching or lack of talent or both, I don't know. But they show zero signs of getting better, unless you count Barbe going from god-awful to less than average.

My hope - and that's all I got right now - is that Lang stabilizes the right tackle situation, Colledge gets his ass in gear, and Clifton and Wells don't get hurt. Sitton I guess is playing okay.

But look at the 4th quarter of the Tampa game and both Minny games. The opposing QB's had a wall in front of them and knew exactly where the defensive linemen were. Rodgers is in a damn war zone all the time.

[retailguy]

The comment on the Ravens website is odd, because the NFL's gamebook does not identify him as a starter in that game. I've known the gamebook to accurately identify opening lineups when the team comes out with two TE's, or multiple WRs. It would be surprising if they missed a starting O-lineman, but I suppose it could have.

Moll was active for two games when they had injuries and had moved Oher from RT to LT. In the two games since, Moll has been inactive again. In that regard, his roster status is even lower than when he was in GB, where he was a game day active player most of the time, except when injured.

Moll seems destined for a career as the 8th or 9th O-lineman, backing up at guard and RT. He will probably be one of those guys who bounces from team to team every couple years, landing wherever a very thin O-line roster exists.

Patler, I don't know if he's "that" bad, but clearly he'll never be anything special. However, I maintain that today, he's better than Barbre by a healthy margin. My musing was really focused on our coaches. What, if anything, has Baltimore done with him that we haven't? I'm not sure, but something seems to be wrong.

Ty, you've got my stuff so far out of context I'm not responding. Go back to what I originally said. I said he's played more consistently this year, that's true. He was horribly inconsistent last year and during his time in GB. The amount of time he's played is irrelevant, I was focused on what he's done while he did play. It, in my opinion has been better than his play in GB, which was awful.

[Scott Campbell]

I'll agree with those who have said this year has been a massive disappointment thus far. The O-line play is beyond horrific, and both the coaching staff and the front office knew that steps were needed to improve that group. They're actually playing even worse.

[Pugger]

From a rebuilding argument you can't take injuries into account. You've got to go with the talent the team was given in the beginning of the season. Also I think you've got to compare 3-4 DE's to 4-3 DT's and 4-3 DE's to 3-4 OLBs.

You look at how we now have Woodson instead of Carroll and laugh but the 2005 secondary was excellent. Harris's best year IMO. KGB while not fully suck and Kampman in his prime is more pass rush than we have now. We're certainly better off against the run now.

On offense we're worse on the line certainly as we've not been able to replace our old pro-bowl tackles who are starting to break down. Despite DD getting older and no longer having Walker I'd say were better at WR although not by much. We're much better at TE. We're about the same at RB. And if you assume that Brett Favre was at least as good then as he is now we were better at QB although I don't believe this.

I'd take 2009 Favre over 2005 Favre. They are two different players. Partial makes a good point IMO. Some very important areas of the team have dropped off. The 2005 line was good enough to make Samkon Gado a star. Weird to think about now. Also we have a worse pass rush.

There was no way the 2005 secondary was excellent with Grabby McFlag aka Ahmad Carroll starting back there. I happen to think Al Harris has gotten better since then.

I agree that the 2005 pass rush was better.

In general, I think BF is better (as he's proven over the course of his career), but in this instance, 2005 was his worst year as a QB when you look at QB rating. He threw 29 interceptions to 20 touchdowns. AR is on pace for 32 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. Say he only gets 25 and 15: I'd still say that taking this one year to one year comparison that AR is playing better.

[Pugger]

But the big question is are the guys on our line as awful as they appear or are they stinking out the joint because of crappy coaching? I'm leaning towards the latter...

[pbmax]

Colledge is the poster child of the line this year. Clifton and Spitz have injuries and uneven play is not surprising during recovery. Barbre is a first year starter, so while no one expected a turnstile, struggling is not a surprise. I am not yet convinced that Barbre isn't salvageable given that he is having trouble in one specific area.

But at the end of 2008 Colledge seemed to have fully developed into a true NFL Guard and the best lineman on the team. This year he has been as uneven as Barbre. He must perform if this line will be able to accomplish anything. No one knew Justin Tuck was in the game on pass downs versus the Giants in 2007. Colledge was blocking him successfully (Favre's quick reads had something to do with this). Colledge can move Pat Williams out of a hole. Its time to earn a paycheck every week Daryn.

[denverYooper]

Colledge is the poster child of the line this year. Clifton and Spitz have injuries and uneven play is not surprising during recovery. Barbre is a first year starter, so while no one expected a turnstile, struggling is not a surprise. I am not yet convinced that Barbre isn't salvageable given that he is having trouble in one specific area.

But at the end of 2008 Colledge seemed to have fully developed into a true NFL Guard and the best lineman on the team. This year he has been as uneven as Barbre. He must perform if this line will be able to accomplish anything. No one knew Justin Tuck was in the game on pass downs versus the Giants in 2007. Colledge was blocking him successfully (Favre's quick reads had something to do with this). Colledge can move Pat Williams out of a hole. Its time to earn a paycheck every week Daryn.

How much has the Left Tackle experiment affected Colledge? It seemed to me that he was doing pretty well until that point.

The other thing that I wonder about with Daryn is how much the personnel changing around him affects his game. I think that he plays better as the season progresses because he knows where his help is and knows what to expect from the guys around him. Lately, he's had a rookie (Lang) and a better but hobbled Clifton to his left. Some of his current problems should go away if the guys next to him stay constant.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The comment on the Ravens website is odd, because the NFL's gamebook does not identify him as a starter in that game. I've known the gamebook to accurately identify opening lineups when the team comes out with two TE's, or multiple WRs. It would be surprising if they missed a starting O-lineman, but I suppose it could have.

Moll was active for two games when they had injuries and had moved Oher from RT to LT. In the two games since, Moll has been inactive again. In that regard, his roster status is even lower than when he was in GB, where he was a game day active player most of the time, except when injured.

Moll seems destined for a career as the 8th or 9th O-lineman, backing up at guard and RT. He will probably be one of those guys who bounces from team to team every couple years, landing wherever a very thin O-line roster exists.

Patler, I don't know if he's "that" bad, but clearly he'll never be anything special. However, I maintain that today, he's better than Barbre by a healthy margin. My musing was really focused on our coaches. What, if anything, has Baltimore done with him that we haven't? I'm not sure, but something seems to be wrong.

Ty, you've got my stuff so far out of context I'm not responding. Go back to what I originally said. I said he's played more consistently this year, that's true. He was horribly inconsistent last year and during his time in GB. The amount of time he's played is irrelevant, I was focused on what he's done while he did play. It, in my opinion has been better than his play in GB, which was awful.

Sure i do. You said he was playing relatively well and consistently.

How would you be judging consistency? By one game on the line. No one can judge consistency by one game. Or, are you suggesting that you have the skill to look at that one game and watched every play, determined his level of play and then compared it with how he played here? LOL

Like Ty said, you are flat out busted. And, like Ty also said, you wouldn't be man enough to admit it.

[SnakeLH2006]

I don't know if he's "that" bad, but clearly he'll never be anything special.

Who...Moll, Colledge, Barbre? LOL.

Here's a fun drinking game with 2 other buddies:

1) Throw their names in a hat.
2) Pick one.
3) Drink when Moll holds someone.
4) Drink when Colledge gets bull-rushed on his back.
5) Drink when Barbre gets whipped around the edge.
6) It doesn't matter. They all fail as dependable NFL starters.
7) At least you get drunk by halftime.