Atari Bigby

[SkinBasket]

I'm not saying we need a pro bowl SS. I'm saying Bigby isn't one. Nor is he the reason we win or lose, although he has been the reason ofr the later in the past. He's simply an adequate player on a great and steadily improving defense.

If that's what you're saying, at least you're starting to see the light compared to what you were saying a few days ago-

The guy has big hair and a funny name. Take that away and you really don't have much that distinguishes him from any other slow, injury prone, non instinctive safety with stiff hips that any team would be trying to replace at the earliest opportunity.

I'd count "adequate player" as a major upgrade of your opinion over that first indictment.

Well lets not start shaving each other's balls just yet.

I should have said, he's adequate in this defense because this defense has a lot of talent on it, is playing very well, and has a good coaching staff. As the team has picked up the new scheme, which most prognosticators put at a season to a season and a half to learn, they've become more and more impressive.

On a less impressive defense, I think you see the Atari Bigby of the past. One that gets exploited on a regular basis and is the weakest link on the defense.

Our revolving door at safety over the years has demonstrated that the position isn't an easy one to fill, which, as I've said several times now, is why I'm fine with him there - for now. You'll have to forgive me for believing a better football player would improve the position. I hope we can find one this off season. Given our recent history, my hopes aren't as high as a Rastafarian in summertime.

[mraynrand]

Have the Packers even allowed a 100 yard rusher since Bigby's return? I know they allowed at least 2 in the short time he was out. I'd say that's more than coincidence.

If I had photoshop installed on this computer we would have a nice portrait of Atari Jesus in this thread already.

You're just baiting me, aren't you?

[mraynrand]

Lord Bigby! Saviour of the Defense!

[RashanGary]

Something about Bigby, just that look <shudders>. . . Bigby

[retailguy]

Something about Bigby, just that look <shudders>. . . Bigby

But he's your "homey".

[SkinBasket]

Have the Packers even allowed a 100 yard rusher since Bigby's return? I know they allowed at least 2 in the short time he was out. I'd say that's more than coincidence.

If I had photoshop installed on this computer we would have a nice portrait of Atari Jesus in this thread already.

You're just baiting me, aren't you?

Thanks. I would have had to walk all the way into the basement, get the cd, come all the way back upstairs and install it. Maybe another day. And nice work. I was going to go with the crown of thorns look, but your version creates much more of a dramatic backdrop to the story at hand.

[HarveyWallbangers]

No. That's the claim between the two Bigby threads by the believers that I've been arguing against. That a) he's pro-bowl quality or anywhere near it

Which person said he was close to Pro Bowl quality? I think even the ones that like him think he's an adequate starter--somebody you can win with.

[RashanGary]

Skins pretty much twisted it from his stance of Bigby being horrible to him simply not being a probowler.


Clever but transparent and void of intellectual honestly.



For the record though, I think Bigby is a big play guy. Interceptions, forced fumbles, big hits. . . . He has some weaknesses in coverage, but in this zone scheme where he plays mostly downhill rather than chasing, I think his strengths are really showcased and his weaknesses really covered. He's a good fit for this team and with Collins being the rangy prototypical FS, I think Bigby is an excellent fit for this team.

As far as him being a probowler, he's not there now, hasn't played consistently enough, but with hsi big plays and how he's played recently, I woudln't be shocked at all if he put together 16 games similar to the last 4 and made it. I think Bigby is more likely to make a probowl than be out of the NFL next year.

[Gunakor]

Have the Packers even allowed a 100 yard rusher since Bigby's return? I know they allowed at least 2 in the short time he was out. I'd say that's more than coincidence.

If I had photoshop installed on this computer we would have a nice portrait of Atari Jesus in this thread already.

Were you going to answer my question?

[Gunakor]

I find it just as silly that you would disregard the effort Bigby has given in the evolution of our entire defense. Atari isn't the one making stops at the LOS. Atari is the reliable deep safety that allows other players to make plays at the LOS. You didn't see as many plays at the LOS early in the season when LB's were lining up 5+ yards off the line and dropping into coverage. That all changed when a guy Capers could trust got healthy, allowing him to use his linebackers more at the line. Boom. Top ranked rush defense. Al Harris did not have that type of an impact on the defense as a whole, and IMO was not more important to the defense than Bigby is. Ah, notice how the defense was sub par while Bigby was out yet remained one of the leagues elite after losing Harris. Again, which player is more key?

Gun, if I have pulled this quote out and it wasn't yours let me know, I will fix it. That was a long confusing batch of quotes and bolding.

I think you have a point about the time Bigby missed, but its not all in his favor. Bigby missed 3 games (CIN, STL, MIN). In two of those, teams ran more than Capers would like to yield. He adjusted and Favre had a field day throwing with plenty of time.

But when Bigby returned, Capers did not go immediately back to blitzing. There were the wins versus Cleve and Detroit but also the Favre-a-Polooza at Lambeau, where they went for 38 points. Then the Tampa fiasco. Finally versus Dallas they rose up, blitzed and still stopped the run. But it took until the 5th game of his return to perform like that.

Also during his return, they got lit up by Pittsburgh. So its not all candy and nuts for Atari. Harris missing does cost them in coverage. Bigby is necessary for the Packer defense to perform at a high level, but its a even mix of his skill and the shortcomings of his backups that makes it so.

When Bigby returned, Capers started using his linebackers. Whether that was blitzing or simply playing at the line, the linebackers were used more aggressively after Bigby's return than while he was injured. The linebackers weren't lining up 5+ yards off the LOS and dropping back into coverage every play anymore. They started playing the run first, something they hadn't done the first month or so of the season. I think it's quite a leap to say that Bigby's return had nothing to do with that, that it was simply the natural evolution of a defense learning a new system. And my example, again, is the number of linebackers playing the pass vs. the run while Bigby was out.

I'm not trying to imply that Bigby is all world or anything like that. I'm not even trying to imply that Bigby himself is the playmaker on this defense. What I'm implying is that, the way I see it, Bigby allows Capers the freedom to better utilize the other players on that defense. That Bigby isn't just productive because of the defense, but that the defense is more productive because of Bigby. The performance of the defense from when Bigby was out to when he returned and got healthy is night and day. Bigby is a key part of this defense, a defense ranked #2 in the NFL, not simply a product of it. That's the point I'm trying to make.

I hope all 11 starters on defense over the final month or so of this season return as starters for the Packers next year. All 11 of them.

[Gunakor]

I should have said, he's adequate in this defense because this defense has a lot of talent on it...

This defense is the only one I'm at all concerned about. You're right, this defense has a lot of talent on it. I guess it doesn't matter whether Bigby brings out the talent surrounding him or the talent surrounding him is the reason for his own success. It works, and that's the bottom line. No need to change what works. Certainly another guy would be able to do what Bigby does, but Bigby can do what Bigby does just fine. Since Bigby isn't being asked to do more than what he's doing, and this defense is playing at an extremely high level with Bigby doing only what he's asked to do, why would you assume that we need a new SS that can do more than that? I just don't see the need to change anything that works, and exactly what we have right now is working both for Bigby individually and for this defense as a whole with Bigby. So I guess the next logical question is, why do you want to see a change in the way we play defense next year that would require a new SS who can do things Bigby can't?

[mraynrand]

Have the Packers even allowed a 100 yard rusher since Bigby's return? I know they allowed at least 2 in the short time he was out. I'd say that's more than coincidence.

How many tackles did he have on RBs following his return?

Were you going to answer my question?

[Administrator]

give it up Skinbasket. Obviously Bigby is just short of God, and clearly a probowl talent. You're fighting a losing battle. Can't you see? :P

[RashanGary]

give it up Skinbasket. Obviously Bigby is just short of God, and clearly a probowl talent. You're fighting a losing battle. Can't you see? :P

Very mature. Just come out and say who you are.

[Administrator]

give it up Skinbasket. Obviously Bigby is just short of God, and clearly a probowl talent. You're fighting a losing battle. Can't you see? :P

Very mature. Just come out and say who you are.

mature? what? I'm amazed at the spirited defense of the guy. I don't get it,

I'm still Joe. Always been Joe, always shall be Joe. You'll have to thank my mother for that one.