Atari Bigby

[RashanGary]

give it up Skinbasket. Obviously Bigby is just short of God, and clearly a probowl talent. You're fighting a losing battle. Can't you see? :P

Very mature. Just come out and say who you are.

mature? what? I'm amazed at the spirited defense of the guy. I don't get it,

I'm still Joe. Always been Joe, always shall be Joe. You'll have to thank my mother for that one.

Yeah, you're a coward.

[KYPack]

OK, everybody brace yourself.

Justin's gonna melt down again.

[Administrator]

OK, everybody brace yourself.

Justin's gonna melt down again.

if he does, it'll be the last time. and he'll take madtown with him too. (maybe, )

[Joemailman]

OK, everybody brace yourself.

Justin's gonna melt down again.

[Gunakor]

Have the Packers even allowed a 100 yard rusher since Bigby's return? I know they allowed at least 2 in the short time he was out. I'd say that's more than coincidence.

How many tackles did he have on RBs following his return?

Were you going to answer my question?

I already have. Try following along. I said Bigby's return allowed Capers the freedom to use his LB's more agressively. In layman's terms, AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett have made more plays on RB's at the LOS as a result of Bigby's return because they don't have to play pass and react to run anymore. Now they can play run and react to pass, which has led to a #1 ranked rush defense in the NFL. Derrick Martin didn't allow them to do that. To answer your question specifically, the answer is zero. Bigby personally did not make those tackles. But as I've explained above, he played a part in those tackles without being the one to actually make them.

For crying out loud, I'm talking about the impact Bigby has on the defense as a whole. Not about how great he is individually. Stop looking at it that way. He plays a support role. That's the role the SS is asked to play in this defense. We don't need a playmaker there. I know, other guys could do it too - but as long as we have Bigby doing it already why the need for a change? There may be better playmaking SS out there, but you won't find many better at the support role Bigby is asked to play. Our SS does not play at the LOS in run support.

The only reason we'd need a SS who can do more than the one we already have is if we were to change the way we play defense. Change the assignments for our SS. Change the role he would play. Why do that? We're #2 in the NFL. Ride the horse till it bucks you. No need to change anything on our defense. Not a goddamn thing.

[Gunakor]

give it up Skinbasket. Obviously Bigby is just short of God, and clearly a probowl talent. You're fighting a losing battle. Can't you see? :P

It's not about Bigby. It's about the defense that features Bigby. It's about how all 11 players are used now vs. how they were used while Derrick Martin was starting at SS. It's about how much better this defense is with Bigby than without him. Bigby will probably never make a pro bowl. Neither will anybody else who plays SS in our defense under Capers. Pro Bowls are for playmakers. Not for role players. Not for the guys whose job it is to make it easier for the real playmakers to shine. But saying that takes nothing away from the importance of a guy like Bigby to our defense or the impact his return had on our defense.

But go ahead, pretend that the remarkable improvement of our defense that coincides with Bigby's return had nothing to do with Bigby at all.

[RashanGary]

Congrats to skinbasket. He's somehow managed to change the conversation from him saying Bigby was a slow, plodding turd that doesn't belong on the Packers to Bigby just not being a probowler.

Don't bite.

[SkinBasket]

No. That's the claim between the two Bigby threads by the believers that I've been arguing against. That a) he's pro-bowl quality or anywhere near it

Which person said he was close to Pro Bowl quality? I think even the ones that like him think he's an adequate starter--somebody you can win with.

This comes from the other Bigby thread. The poll.

[SkinBasket]

Have the Packers even allowed a 100 yard rusher since Bigby's return? I know they allowed at least 2 in the short time he was out. I'd say that's more than coincidence.

If I had photoshop installed on this computer we would have a nice portrait of Atari Jesus in this thread already.

Were you going to answer my question?

Why would I? So you can pull up some other random statistic and attribute it to Atari's mighty powers? Your stance is ridiculous. If you want to credit Atari Bigby with the transformation of this defense over the other 10 players, the change in scheme, and the coaching, I can't help you.

[SkinBasket]

Congrats to skinbasket. He's somehow managed to change the conversation from him saying Bigby was a slow, plodding turd that doesn't belong on the Packers to Bigby just not being a probowler.

Don't bite.

Bite what? You started this stupid thread. I've just voiced my opinion about a crappy player who been allowed to flourish and attain the level of marginally adequate with a top ranked defense surrounding him.

Like I said. I get it. He's fun to root for if you suspend reality a little. Good for you guys. Just don't expect everyone to join in your delusions about his abilities just because you believe he's the magical key to our defense instead of a guy who's role has been minimized to roaming deep.

I think all my feelings that I could ever possibly have about the guy have been voiced between the dozen pages of these last two threads, so if you have any more questions about how I feel about him, just read up on those.

[RashanGary]

Like I said. I get it. He's fun to root for if you suspend reality a little. Good for you guys. Just don't expect everyone to join in your delusions about his abilities just because you believe he's the magical key to our defense instead of a guy who's role has been minimized to roaming deep.

You're putting words in peoples mouths.

I've, personally, never made that argument, but I believe what everyone is saying is that we don't have a safety that understands and plays well enough in our scheme to run a lot of the mixed coverages Capers likes to run. Early in the season we were having issues with Vanilla defense and Capers said it had a lot to do with our guys not moving on to the mixed coverages until they're ready.

After Bigby came back, the coaches and players talked Bigby bringing a steadiness that allowed them to open up their playbook. After that, the defense started to take off.


As far as why the defense took off, nobody ever claimed it was because he was a superstar. The claim was that he's the only SS we have that can handle the defense we run right now, bringing us from predictable to a multiple coverage team.


Yet you keep putting words in peoples mouths. Face it Skin, you were wrong. Bigby's at least a solid player.

[Scott Campbell]

Good thread!

[mraynrand]

Have the Packers even allowed a 100 yard rusher since Bigby's return? I know they allowed at least 2 in the short time he was out. I'd say that's more than coincidence.

How many tackles did he have on RBs following his return?

Were you going to answer my question?

I already have. Try following along. I said Bigby's return allowed Capers the freedom to use his LB's more agressively. In layman's terms, AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett have made more plays on RB's at the LOS as a result of Bigby's return because they don't have to play pass and react to run anymore. Now they can play run and react to pass, which has led to a #1 ranked rush defense in the NFL. Derrick Martin didn't allow them to do that. To answer your question specifically, the answer is zero. Bigby personally did not make those tackles. But as I've explained above, he played a part in those tackles without being the one to actually make them.

For crying out loud, I'm talking about the impact Bigby has on the defense as a whole. Not about how great he is individually. Stop looking at it that way. He plays a support role. That's the role the SS is asked to play in this defense. We don't need a playmaker there. I know, other guys could do it too - but as long as we have Bigby doing it already why the need for a change? There may be better playmaking SS out there, but you won't find many better at the support role Bigby is asked to play. Our SS does not play at the LOS in run support.

The only reason we'd need a SS who can do more than the one we already have is if we were to change the way we play defense. Change the assignments for our SS. Change the role he would play. Why do that? We're #2 in the NFL. Ride the horse till it bucks you. No need to change anything on our defense. Not a goddamn thing.

Are you really saying Bigby's return freed up the LBs from pass coverage responsibilities?

[mission]

Have the Packers even allowed a 100 yard rusher since Bigby's return? I know they allowed at least 2 in the short time he was out. I'd say that's more than coincidence.

How many tackles did he have on RBs following his return?

Were you going to answer my question?

I already have. Try following along. I said Bigby's return allowed Capers the freedom to use his LB's more agressively. In layman's terms, AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett have made more plays on RB's at the LOS as a result of Bigby's return because they don't have to play pass and react to run anymore. Now they can play run and react to pass, which has led to a #1 ranked rush defense in the NFL. Derrick Martin didn't allow them to do that. To answer your question specifically, the answer is zero. Bigby personally did not make those tackles. But as I've explained above, he played a part in those tackles without being the one to actually make them.

For crying out loud, I'm talking about the impact Bigby has on the defense as a whole. Not about how great he is individually. Stop looking at it that way. He plays a support role. That's the role the SS is asked to play in this defense. We don't need a playmaker there. I know, other guys could do it too - but as long as we have Bigby doing it already why the need for a change? There may be better playmaking SS out there, but you won't find many better at the support role Bigby is asked to play. Our SS does not play at the LOS in run support.

The only reason we'd need a SS who can do more than the one we already have is if we were to change the way we play defense. Change the assignments for our SS. Change the role he would play. Why do that? We're #2 in the NFL. Ride the horse till it bucks you. No need to change anything on our defense. Not a goddamn thing.

Are you really saying Bigby's return freed up the LBs from pass coverage responsibilities?

It certainly changes how we have to approach defending the middle of the field.

[3irty1]

I once thought Bigby was the Derrik Turnbow of the Packers. But instead of a shaggy-haired closer who lights up the gun and has a crazy leg whip its a strong safety with a goofy name and dreads that makes big hits. They are both fan favorites for the above reasons even though their performance was more lucky than good.

This season though Bigby has made me a believer. He'll probably never be a pro bowler (although Turnbow was an all-star so who knows) but he's a solid starter who's not a real liability in any aspect of the game. Either that or he's still just really lucky in which case I'd argue that I'd rather be lucky than good.