Wolf and Thompson - JSO Article

[packrulz]

Actually, Ron Wolf was a better drafter in mid to late rounds, he had some misses in the first round, like Jamal Reynolds, T-Buck, Cletius Hunt, & John Michels, but hiring Holmgren and his staff, trading for Favre, and signing Reggie White made the Packers Super Bowl caliber. TT doesn't have any Reggie White's to go after, but Pickett, Woodson, and Chilliar were nice pickups. Looking at the drafts, I like who TT has drafted so far.

Ron Wolf's drafts:
1991 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Vinnie Clark CB Ohio State
2 35 Esera Tuaolo NT Oregon State
3 67 Don Davey DE Wisconsin
3 81 Chuck Webb FB Tennessee
5 135 Jeff Fite -- Memphis
6 149 Walter Dean RB Grambling State
6 164 Joe Garten C Colorado
7 169 Frank Blevins -- Oklahoma
7 176 Reggie Burnette LB Houston
8 203 Johnnie Walker -- Texas
9 229 Dean Witkowski -- North Dakota
10 262 Rapier Porter -- Arkansas-Pine Bluff
11 289 J.J. Wierenga -- Central Michigan
12 316 Linzy Collins -- Missouri
1992 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 5 Terrell Buckley CB Florida State
2 34 Mark D'Onofrio LB Penn State
3 62 Robert Brooks WR South Carolina
4 103 Edgar Bennett RB Florida State
5 119 Dexter McNabb FB Florida
5 130 Orlando McKay WR Washington
6 157 Mark Chmura TE Boston College
7 190 Chris Holder -- Tuskegee
9 230 Ty Detmer QB Brigham Young
9 240 Shazzon Bradley -- Tennessee
10 257 Andrew Oberg -- North Carolina
11 287 Gabe Mokwuah -- American International
12 314 Brett Collins LB Washington
1993 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Wayne Simmons OLB Clemson
1 29 George Teague FS Alabama
3 81 Earl Dotson T Texas A&M - Kingsville
5 118 Mark Brunell QB Washington
5 119 James Willis LB Auburn
6 141 Doug Evans CB Louisiana Tech
6 152 Paul Hutchins T Western Michigan
6 156 Tim Watson DB Howard
7 183 Bob Kuberski NT Navy
1994 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 16 Aaron Taylor G Notre Dame
3 84 LeShon Johnson RB Northern Illinois
4 126 Gabe Wilkins DE Gardner-Webb
5 146 Terry Mickens WR Florida A&M
5 149 Dorsey Levens RB Georgia Tech
6 169 Jay Kearney -- West Virginia
6 175 Ruffin Hamilton LB Tulane
6 181 Bill Schroeder WR Wis.-La Crosse
6 190 Paul Duckworth -- Connecticut
1995 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Craig Newsome CB Arizona State
3 65 Darius Holland DT Colorado
3 66 William Henderson RB North Carolina
3 73 Brian Williams LB USC
3 90 Antonio Freeman WR Virginia Tech
4 117 Jeff Miller T Mississippi
5 160 Jay Barker QB Alabama
5 170 Travis Jervey RB The Citadel
6 173 Charlie Simmons -- Georgia Tech
7 230 Adam Timmerman G South Dakota State
1996 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 John Michels T USC
2 56 Derrick Mayes WR Notre Dame
3 90 Mike Flanagan C UCLA
3 93 Tyrone Williams DB Nebraska
4 123 Chris Darkins RB Minnesota
6 208 Marco Rivera G Penn State
7 240 Kyle Wachholtz QB USC
7 252 Keith McKenzie DE Ball State
1997 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Ross Verba T Iowa
2 60 Darren Sharper DB William & Mary
3 90 Brett Conway K Penn State
4 126 Jermaine Smith DT Georgia
5 160 Anthony Hicks LB Arkansas
7 213 Chris Miller -- USC
7 231 Jerald Sowell RB Tulane
7 240 Ronnie McAda -- Army
1998 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Vonnie Holliday DE North Carolina
3 90 Jonathan Brown DE Tennessee
4 121 Roosevelt Blackmon CB Morris Brown
5 150 Corey Bradford WR Jackson State
6 156 Scott McGarrahan DB New Mexico
6 187 Matt Hasselbeck QB Boston College
7 218 Edwin Watson RB Purdue
Supplemental Draft: Mike Wahle G Navy
1999 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Antuan Edwards CB Clemson
2 47 Fred Vinson CB Vanderbilt
3 87 Mike McKenzie CB Memphis
3 94 Cletidus Hunt DE Kentucky State
4 131 Aaron Brooks QB Virginia
4 133 Josh Bidwell P Oregon
5 159 De'Mond Parker RB Oklahoma
5 163 Craig Heimburger C Missouri
6 196 Dee Miller -- Ohio State
6 203 Scott Curry T Montana
7 212 Chris Akins DB Arkansas-Pine Bluff
7 213 Donald Driver WR Alcorn State
2000 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 14 Bubba Franks TE Miami (Fla.)
2 44 Chad Clifton T Tennessee
3 74 Steve Warren DT Nebraska
4 98 Na'il Diggs OLB Ohio State
4 114 Anthony Lucas WR Arkansas
4 126 Gary Berry SAF Ohio State
5 149 Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila DE San Diego State
5 151 Joey Jamison -- Texas Southern
7 224 Mark Tauscher T Wisconsin
7 229 Ron Moore DE Northwestern Oklahoma State
7 242 Charles Lee WR Central Florida
7 249 Eugene McCaslin LB Florida
7 252 Rondell Mealey RB Louisiana State
2001 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 10 Jamal Reynolds DE Florida State
2 41 Robert Ferguson WR Texas A&M
3 71 Bhawoh Jue SS Penn State
3 72 Torrance Marshall LB Oklahoma
4 105 Bill Ferrario G Wisconsin
6 198 David Martin TE Tennessee
TT's drafts:
2005 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California
2 51 Nick Collins FS Bethune-Cookman
2 58 Terrence Murphy WR Texas A&M
4 115 Marviel Underwood DB San Diego State
4 125 Brady Poppinga LB Brigham Young
5 143 Junius Coston C North Carolina A&T
5 167 Mike Hawkins DB Oklahoma
6 180 Mike Montgomery DT Texas A&M
6 195 Craig Bragg WR UCLA
7 245 Kurt Campbell CB Albany State (NY)
7 246 Will Whitticker G Michigan State
2006 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 5 A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State
2 47 Daryn Colledge G Boise State
2 52 Greg Jennings WR Western Michigan
3 67 Abdul Hodge LB Iowa
3 75 Jason Spitz G Louisville
4 104 Cory Rodgers WR Texas Christian
4 115 Will Blackmon CB Boston College
5 148 Ingle Martin QB Furman
5 165 Tony Moll G Nevada-Reno
6 183 Johnny Jolly DT Texas A&M
6 185 Tyrone Culver DB Fresno State
7 253 Dave Tollefson DE Northwest Missouri State
2007 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 16 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee
2 63 Brandon Jackson RB Nebraska
3 78 James Jones WR San Jose State
3 89 Aaron Rouse SAF Virginia Tech
4 119 Allen Barbre G Missouri Southern State
5 157 David Clowney WR Virginia Tech
6 191 Korey Hall FB Boise State
6 192 Desmond Bishop LB California
6 193 Mason Crosby K Colorado
7 228 DeShawn Wynn RB Florida
7 243 Clark Harris TE Rutgers
Traded future 6th round pick for Ryan Grant RB Notre Dame
2008 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 36 Jordy Nelson WR Kansas State
2 56 Brian Brohm QB Louisville
2 60 Pat Lee CB Auburn
3 91 Jermichael Finley TE Texas
4 102 Jeremy Thompson DE Wake Forest
4 135 Josh Sitton G Central Florida
5 150 Breno Giacomini T Louisville
7 209 Matt Flynn QB Louisiana State
7 217 Brett Swain WR San Diego State
2009 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 9 B.J. Raji NT Boston College
1 26 Clay Matthews LB USC
4 109 T.J. Lang T Eastern Michigan
5 145 Quinn Johnson RB Louisiana State
5 162 Jamon Meredith T South Carolina
6 182 Jarius Wynn DE Georgia
6 187 Brandon Underwood DB Cincinnati
7 218 Brad Jones LB Colorado
2010 - Green Bay Packer 1 23 (23) Bryan Bulaga OT 6'5" 314 Iowa
2 24 (56) Mike Neal DT 6'3" 294 Purdue
3 7 (71) (From Browns through Eagles) Morgan Burnett SS 6'1" 209 Georgia Tech
5 23 (154) Andrew Quarless TE 6'4" 254 Penn State
5 38 (169) (Compensatory selection) Marshall Newhouse OT 6'4" 319 TCU
6 24 (193) James Starks RB 6'2" 218 Buffalo
7 23 (230) C.J. Wilson DE 6'3" 290 East Carolina[/b]

[retailguy]

Your sarcasm is showing. No one here is declaring TT the second coming of Curly or Vince.

Bullshit. Some of these guys have the statue pre-made in their garage.

[RashanGary]

I'll admit, I'm drinkin the TT koolaid. I think he's got something pretty special going here.

[Deputy Nutz]

I can see the kool-aid is flowing.

Until someone tells me how the Packers got significantly better in defending the pass in the off season I ain't betting on them to win no Super Bowl.

Listening to some of ya, why don't we just build a statue of Thompson out front of Lambeau and put him right between Curly and Vince.

Your sarcasm is showing. No one here is declaring TT the second coming of Curly or Vince.

Do you not think adding Neal and Wilson to the D line will improve our pass rush? Or do you believe the pass rush comes mostly from the OLBers in Capers' scheme?

For one, getting any significant contribution from a rookies is fantastic, but I try not to count on that when talking in terms of team development for the upcoming year. Pressure on the QB in the 3-4 comes from the scheme, most of the time the OLBs are getting the pressures, but it also comes from the ILBs and also here and there from the defensive line. It is the scheme.

I didn't see enough from Brad Jones in his rookie year to lead me to believe that he is going be game changer, some one that makes a difference in the out come of the ball game. He is an ok option going into the 2010 season, but I wouldn't expect 7 or more sacks from him.

I unlike some in Packernation, liked the Neal pick. If you can get a solid defensive, or offensive lineman regardless of team need or round, you make the pick. Everything starts with the offensive and defensive line. Pittsburgh has linebackers that were basically street free agents and lower draft picks, but they blow up in the Pitt scheme because the Steelers have or had three really good defensive linemen that ran the scheme to perfection.

I don't think Cullen Jenkins fits the scheme anymore than Aaron Kampman did playing linebacker. Jenkins comes off as a me player, and playing end in a three four defense might not be his cup of tea.

Raji is a penatrator and would have been best suited as a disruptive three tech tackle in a one gap scheme. He will be all right because he is a good football player, but I don't know if he is best utilized in 3-4. So adding guys like Neal makes sense when you break it down, also Jenkins contract is up in 2011, and Jolly is probably going to face league suspension when all is said and done.

Thompson, apparently has the team pointed in the right direction. I hate the man, but I also am not one to claim he isn't doing enough in free agency. Free Agency sucks, not a lot out there. What I will critique him on is that he won't make trades for players that could put this team over the top, he looks at very little in terms of veteran talent that could put this team over the edge.

Woodson and Pickett have been great additions, but that was almost 5 years ago, so the question is, "what have you done lately"?

[LP]

I hate the man

Why is that? What exactly did he do to you?

[falco]

Your sarcasm is showing. No one here is declaring TT the second coming of Curly or Vince.

Bullshit. Some of these guys have the statue pre-made in their garage.

Like who?

[Tarlam!]

This article sheds some interesting facts on the performance of rookie pass rushers

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818130b7&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Want to predict which rookies will be busts? Look at pass rushers
By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com

What is the realistic level of sack production that a fan can hope for from a rookie pass rusher? It's definitely not the 10 by Matthews or the 11 by Orakpo.

Try a more realistic number like three or fewer. There have only been three rookie pass rushers to reach double-digit sacks from the first or second round since '06. Don't expect many more tackles, either, as most average in the mid-20s their rookie season.

[Lurker64]

This article sheds some interesting facts on the performance of rookie pass rushers

Pass-rusher is a position that is absolutely littered with busts. It's not perceived as a high risk position as much as WR, since WR busts tend to find themselves out of the league (Charles Rogers) or traded away for peanuts (Troy Williamson) quickly, while pass rusher busts tend to simply end up as rotation players or average starters (Chris Long, Tamba Hali).

It's generally most prudent to not swing for the fences with a pass rusher unless that's a need that really, desperately, outweighs everything else, there's a tremendous value at that position, or there's a guy who you are supremely confident in working out. Like even the best hitters in baseball, you'll strike out (Vernon Gholston) more often than you hit a home run (Brian Orakpo), and you'll probably hit more soft grounders to short (Quentin Groves) than bloop singles (Tamba Hali).

I give a lot of credit to TT for finding one guy who seems to be excellent and another guy who seems to be good enough. Would I like another difference maker? Absolutely, but it's not necessarily a great idea to expend all the bullets in your gun trying to hit that one guy. There's lots of ways to make a good defense. The Jets didn't have much in the way of elite pass rushing OLBs last year, but they certainly were good enough on defense.

[Deputy Nutz]

I hate the man

Why is that? What exactly did he do to you?

He stole my self respect

[falco]

He stole my self respect

Any you noticed it was missing ?!?!?

[Fritz]

What he said.

Again: Whom would you all have wanted TT to sign? Jason Taylor - then move your rookie of the year from last year to a new side? Adalius Thomas - whom the Pats did not want?

This is always the convenient argument. Do we have anybody out there better than guys like Bush or Breno the Italian Stallion ? Every year there are guys that can help us; the question is whether it's a good risk reward ratio.

And then cup that along with how do we know they were better than what we have. After all, guys like Chris Hope would have been no better than Jarrett Bush and no way he makes a difference a few years back

And then even if there were better players who is to say they'd have come to Green Bay ? To some the solution is just never to question because we're just a bunch of online yahoos. I'll never buy into that.

Lots of ways to skin a cat

It's not a "convenient argument." It's asking you - or anyone who thinks TT should've signed a free agent - to say who that free agent is, and why you think that FA would be an improvement on Brad Jones on Brandon Underwood.

So, do you think it would've been worth the risk to bring in Jason Taylor and ask CMIII to switch sides? What indicators do you think suggest A. Thomas would be productive this year? Which d-back would be better than Brandon Underwood?

I'm asking for names and reasons they'd be improvements. I'm not unwilling to listen.

[pbmax]

Your sarcasm is showing. No one here is declaring TT the second coming of Curly or Vince.

Bullshit. Some of these guys have the statue pre-made in their garage.

Its not a statue. Its a bust!

[retailguy]

It's not a "convenient argument." It's asking you - or anyone who thinks TT should've signed a free agent - to say who that free agent is, and why you think that FA would be an improvement on Brad Jones on Brandon Underwood.

So, do you think it would've been worth the risk to bring in Jason Taylor and ask CMIII to switch sides? What indicators do you think suggest A. Thomas would be productive this year? Which d-back would be better than Brandon Underwood?

I'm asking for names and reasons they'd be improvements. I'm not unwilling to listen.

Fritz, I think it is a convenient argument too. Help doesn't just have to come from starters, it can come from more solid backup folks too.

I don't have to "name names" to know that there is better depth out there than the depth we have at cornerback. There is better depth out there than what we had on the OL, though there is little room with two promising youngsters. How about depth at OLB? Nobody is better than what we have? Really?

I just don't buy it, when we're bringing in undrafted folks to "see" if they might help 3 years from now.

The whole "name names" crap is just that, crap. There are always folks out there who are better than what you have. If it's a priority you plug them in, if it isn't, you pass. We typically pass, and that's how we had a 7th round draft pick starting at OLB last season after our starter went down (he played well, but got exposed along with the rest of the defense in the playoff game), and it is also one of the many reasons that our OL was so abysmal in the first half of the year.

We passed, relied on the young guys, and paid a price for that. The OL probably made the difference between the wild card and a division title. In the end, did it make a difference? Who knows, but to say because we didn't "name names" we're wrong is ridiculous.

[retailguy]

Your sarcasm is showing. No one here is declaring TT the second coming of Curly or Vince.

Bullshit. Some of these guys have the statue pre-made in their garage.

Its not a statue. Its a bust!

Good one! I'll pay more attention to that in the future. :P

[Pugger]

It's not a "convenient argument." It's asking you - or anyone who thinks TT should've signed a free agent - to say who that free agent is, and why you think that FA would be an improvement on Brad Jones on Brandon Underwood.

So, do you think it would've been worth the risk to bring in Jason Taylor and ask CMIII to switch sides? What indicators do you think suggest A. Thomas would be productive this year? Which d-back would be better than Brandon Underwood?

I'm asking for names and reasons they'd be improvements. I'm not unwilling to listen.

Fritz, I think it is a convenient argument too. Help doesn't just have to come from starters, it can come from more solid backup folks too.

I don't have to "name names" to know that there is better depth out there than the depth we have at cornerback. There is better depth out there than what we had on the OL, though there is little room with two promising youngsters. How about depth at OLB? Nobody is better than what we have? Really?

I just don't buy it, when we're bringing in undrafted folks to "see" if they might help 3 years from now.

The whole "name names" crap is just that, crap. There are always folks out there who are better than what you have. If it's a priority you plug them in, if it isn't, you pass. We typically pass, and that's how we had a 7th round draft pick starting at OLB last season after our starter went down (he played well, but got exposed along with the rest of the defense in the playoff game), and it is also one of the many reasons that our OL was so abysmal in the first half of the year.

We passed, relied on the young guys, and paid a price for that. The OL probably made the difference between the wild card and a division title. In the end, did it make a difference? Who knows, but to say because we didn't "name names" we're wrong is ridiculous.

You may be right and TT should have went after a FA this spring but I can't think of a OLB or CB that was available that was appreciably better than what we already have on the roster .