Wolf and Thompson - JSO Article

[mraynrand]

Hear, Hear! Retail, Fritz has you dead to rights. If you are making the argument that TT could and should be doing more to improve the situation at CB or OL, then you are obligated to provide some sort of strategy he should follow. Who are the prospects he could get? Should he trade someone on the roster to get a CB or OLineman? If so who? If you don't have a plan, then you should limit yourself to "TT needs to do better to win a superbowl." Then your either right or wrong based on whether they win it all this year. As it currently stands, all you are doing is complaining.

I know you haven't been around much, but I did what you're asking in THIS VERY THREAD. Go back and read the lovely responses.... I'm making the point that naming names doesn't work because of that... all you get is a bunch of excuses as to "why that won't work". What it all means is that there "is nobody better than what we have". That's my point.

Thanks for sharing.

That's how sports blogs work. Defend your POV. Enjoy.

[pbmax]

I'll give you the argument on the OL. The Packers went into the season praying that Clifton wouldn't get hurt, and that Barbre could do the job, and their prayers were not answered. The DB situation was different though. Their depth at CB was fine until they lost 3 guys to injuries. Any team would have been affected by that. The only way the Packers would have been okay there would have been if they started with 6 or 7 quality experienced CB's. No team has that.

Actually, prior to facing JAllen with no practice at LT, college had performed like most backup LT's in the league....Let me give you a hint, there are ZERO good backup LT's in the league and only about 20 good starters. Lang played about like a normal backup LT....serviceable, but not good.

RT is a different story. I have trouble believing that they didn't know that NIETHER Babre or Giocominni could even get in the way. When they pulled Babre FINALLY and MERCIFULLY they didn't even turn to the SECOND year player who was the backup....they turned to Lang, the rookie, who hadn't taken many snaps at RT. Why was Giocominni even on the roster?? If he breaks camp with the Packers this year it almost better be as the starter at RT cuz he looks so brilliant in camp this year....I can't even think of another argument for keeping him around as a backup (that you won't use).

New Orleans begs to differ. Of course nobody outside of NO could have told you that last year before Jammal Brown went down. But either Bushrod is far more talented than anybody recognized or else New Orleans had him prepared to step up, which would mean that their line coaching might be vastly superior to Green Bay's. The truth is probably somewhere in between those two extremes.

It does help when replacing a LT to have a good RT and a good LG. They sent a lot of help to Bushrod on his more difficult assignments. I think the Cowboys got to him, but the Colts best chance to take advantage of him had an injury.

Still, he performed well.

[retailguy]

Ted elected not to improve the team and stand pat with what he had.

This is the fallacy of your argument...neither you or I know if he elected to or couldn't. Ted has brought in many guys, but he hasn't sunk money on ONE FA BUST yet. He HAS however signed a defensive MVP.

Could he have signed Nate Clement, Albert Haynesworth, Julius Peppers?? I guess, but how much good has that done those teams so far??

How about when he wouldn't cave to Walker or CWilliams....those guys went on to be prosperous huh??

How about the most active teams in FA...Washington, Cleveland, et all. Every year a team sells out and 95% of the time it fails (and handicaps them for years).

In 2007 the Patriots sold out. They made the superbowl in part due to randy moss(who was considered washed up) and Wes Welker. Both TRADES. TT was right in the hunt for moss til the end. The other guys for the most part have been cut or underperformed (but the cash strapped Pats did have to trade Richard Seymour and look less dominant every year). The FA signings of Donte Stallworth and Adalius Thomas....both off the roster already. Moss is already back to his old ways.

2007 the giants were inactive in FA. A couple rookies no one heard of (and fans likely bitched about when they could have gotten AT) stepped up big and the Giants beat the Patriots in the Superbowl.

So what is the goal...superbowls....then 31 GM's fail yearly, and the ones that succeed do it predominately through the draft. Is the goal being competitive for the superbowl?? then TT is right on track and has been pretty successful.

You're back to talking about starters again. That isn't my point.

I used the word "elected" purposely. It was not a mistake. I am certain that "occasionally" he dabbles into the FA market and we never hear about it. But I am far more certain that the timing of that is "not very often". I am also certain that he "elects" to back away from the table frequently when he dabbles and therefore "chooses" to stand pat with team he has, even if, it isn't as good as it would have been. There are circumstances where that is appropriate.

However, use a baseball analogy. Even the worst hitter in the Major Leagues gets hits. Yes, Ted has signed a defensive MVP. He will always have my kudos for that. But, how many seasons since Woodson and Pickett has it been since we signed even a servicable backup in FA? I'm fairly certain that the last one that made the team was Frank Walker.

The "odds" of signing someone aren't this poor if you are truly playing in hte FA market. Dozens of players switch teams every year. I think this is why Ted is getting criticism in spite of the direction the team appears to be pointing. This season should tell us a lot, and will show us first hand if building the team this way works.

I just remember Wolf plugging holes, or better phrased trying to plug holes. It seemed as if he "knew & trusted" his evaluations of these lunch pail players and would rather bring someone new in to see if they'd be better than merely standing pat.

It just seemed more important to him than it does to Ted. If I was inside 1265, then I'd know. I'm not, so I speculate based on the info I am able to gather.

As I've said here and elsewhere, we shall see if it is enough to get "over the top" this season. There is no discernable reason today that this should "not" be THE season.

[Scott Campbell]

But, how many seasons since Woodson and Pickett has it been since we signed even a servicable backup in FA? I'm fairly certain that the last one that made the team was Frank Walker.

Chillar.

[retailguy]

But, how many seasons since Woodson and Pickett has it been since we signed even a servicable backup in FA? I'm fairly certain that the last one that made the team was Frank Walker.

Chillar.

He happened after Walker? If so, then I stand corrected. Is that 3 years ago then, or four?

[falco]

But, how many seasons since Woodson and Pickett has it been since we signed even a servicable backup in FA? I'm fairly certain that the last one that made the team was Frank Walker.

Chillar.

He happened after Walker? If so, then I stand corrected. Is that 3 years ago then, or four?

2 years ago (2008 offseason)

[ThunderDan]

I used the word "elected" purposely. It was not a mistake. I am certain that "occasionally" he dabbles into the FA market and we never hear about it. But I am far more certain that the timing of that is "not very often". I am also certain that he "elects" to back away from the table frequently when he dabbles and therefore "chooses" to stand pat with team he has, even if, it isn't as good as it would have been. There are circumstances where that is appropriate.

It just seemed more important to him than it does to Ted. If I was inside 1265, then I'd know. I'm not, so I speculate based on the info I am able to gather.

Wow, for someone who says he isn't inside 1265 Lombardi, you certainly know for certain what happens there.

You have no clue what really happens there and neither do I.

[Tarlam!]

I think you're making assumptions based on what you want to read, Dan. I may be splitting hairs again, but I think you're picking a fight on a personal basis and not arguing against the content. RG is certain, he says. Nowhere has he said he knows anything for certain.

He acknowledges that he can't know for certain and underlines it by stating he is purely speculating. Yet you feel the need to attack him personally.

You're obviously an intelligent and articulate poster and you offer some really good insights which I tend to enjoy. And you don't back off of a point if you feel strongly about it - you're not to be intimidated. I respect that.

But your personal vendetta doesn't make you look very objective and does you no justice.

[Fritz]

Good points, but I'm just not sure who the FA's were this year that Thompson was supposed to bring in.

I don't buy that Jason Taylor or Adalius Thomas are any better than Brad Jones at this point.

Trades are possible, but everybody here clamors to trade Colledge for an OLB. But if Colledge is as awful as many believe, what kind of OLB are you going to get for him?

Someone else mentioned the Jets trading a third for Cromartie. But who would you rather have on your roster: the third round pick of ours, Burnett, or Cromartie?

Fritz, I kind of agree with what you're saying about Taylor & Thomas, but what I have never understood is why we don't bring one of them to camp for competition at least. They could push Jones to improve faster, or if he stumbles to provide a stop gap until he's ready.

It doesn't make sense to load up on undrafted free agents who might develop into something 3 years from now. Don't get me wrong, we need those guys too, but do we need as many as he typically brings to camp?

Couldn't we take 3 or 4 positions that we're weak at, and bring in servicable guys too? Example - OL, OLB, and CB are frequently mentioned here as being weak links. He made the OL a big priority in the draft, but did nothing (or very little) at OLB. Isn't Taylor or Thomas better than a street free agent or perhaps the guys on our practice squad? Why do all the FA's have to start?

Can't they push for that role, once in a while?

Okay, here's the one place I found in the thread where you mentioned names, Retail. So help me understand: you would as a GM like to sign, say Jason Taylor. The post after this one gave you the contract numbers for Taylor - fairly large. So then you are saying you would tell Taylor he's moving to the other side, right? And let him compete for a job with Jones, maybe push the kid.

I admit to being ignorant of Taylor's numbers and level of play last year. Does anyone know how he did?

See, Retail, at least now we can have an actual debate about the pros and cons of a player. Maybe he would have been a good pick up, had he been willing to sign with GB and switch sides. I'm not sure he would have been willing to sign in GB and switch spots, but maybe he would have.

[ThunderDan]

I think you're making assumptions based on what you want to read, Dan. I may be splitting hairs again, but I think you're picking a fight on a personal basis and not arguing against the content. RG is certain, he says. Nowhere has he said he knows anything for certain.

He acknowledges that he can't know for certain and underlines it by stating he is purely speculating. Yet you feel the need to attack him personally.

You're obviously an intelligent and articulate poster and you offer some really good insights which I tend to enjoy. And you don't back off of a point if you feel strongly about it - you're not to be intimidated. I respect that.

But your personal vendetta doesn't make you look very objective and does you no justice.

So when RG says He's CERTAIN 3 times in a paragraph he isn't CERTAIN?

That makes no sense. I have no doubt in my mind that TT evaluates every potenetial FA that could help the Packers. It makes no sense at all that someone whose job depends on how well the Packers are doing and the direction of the franchise to specifically not use a tool to help build his club.

I certainly know that TT's knowledge of football players, the free agent market and building a franchise are much great than mine and most human beings. You don't get honored as executive of the year 2 out of 3 years in the NFL by luck.

[retailguy]

I think you're making assumptions based on what you want to read, Dan. I may be splitting hairs again, but I think you're picking a fight on a personal basis and not arguing against the content. RG is certain, he says. Nowhere has he said he knows anything for certain.

He acknowledges that he can't know for certain and underlines it by stating he is purely speculating. Yet you feel the need to attack him personally.

You're obviously an intelligent and articulate poster and you offer some really good insights which I tend to enjoy. And you don't back off of a point if you feel strongly about it - you're not to be intimidated. I respect that.

But your personal vendetta doesn't make you look very objective and does you no justice.

Thanks Tar. You captured the essense of what I was trying to say perfectly and I appreciate it very much.

[Scott Campbell]

You don't get honored as executive of the year 2 out of 3 years in the NFL by luck.

I thought Ted only won once.

[ThunderDan]

You don't get honored as executive of the year 2 out of 3 years in the NFL by luck.

I thought Ted only won once.

I thought he got 2009 Exeuctive of the Year also.

[hoosier]

Polian got it in 2009. Again. He is by far and away the best NFL GM in the era of free agency.

[Fritz]

I think you're making assumptions based on what you want to read, Dan. I may be splitting hairs again, but I think you're picking a fight on a personal basis and not arguing against the content. RG is certain, he says. Nowhere has he said he knows anything for certain.

He acknowledges that he can't know for certain and underlines it by stating he is purely speculating. Yet you feel the need to attack him personally.

You're obviously an intelligent and articulate poster and you offer some really good insights which I tend to enjoy. And you don't back off of a point if you feel strongly about it - you're not to be intimidated. I respect that.

But your personal vendetta doesn't make you look very objective and does you no justice.

Thanks Tar. You captured the essense of what I was trying to say perfectly and I appreciate it very much.

Okay, Retail, I found your earlier post mentioning Taylor and Thomas. I commented on Taylor and I would like to hear you talk about how you envisioned him signing up with the Pack - what his motivations might be (maybe he's been talking publicly about wanting to go to a winner?), and I'd like to hear you talk about why you think a switch of sides for him or for CMII could work well. Maybe it's not as hard to switch sides as I seem to think.

So help me understand. I'm not close-minded on this. I just would like you or someone to explain how Taylor at this point in his career might have been a good fit that TT failed to see. Cuz maybe he did. Maybe I'd like it better than Obiozor as a backup. Maybe because it's an uncapped year it could've gotten done. Convince me or at least convince me it was a reasonable idea. I'm open to listening to your case.