Wolf and Thompson - JSO Article

[Fritz]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/93422149.html

On the one hand, the article begins with an interesting comparison of the current Packer team and the 96 team. The parallels are quite close and so that was interesting.

The article then goes on to criticize Thompson for not bringing in any veteran help when the team is seemingly so close. In contrast, Wolf brought in Dotson, Ron Cox, Don Beebe, et al, and traded for Eugene Robinson. The major source of support for this criticism is Leroy Butler.

The article does not however mention which free agents exactly that Thompson should have pursued to put this team over the top. I am trying to think of what players - specifically outside 3-4 linebackers - this team should have pursued that would have been an upgrade. Who was out there who is not washed up?

Since the 90's teams have learned how to use the league's salary structure to keep their own. This was not the case back in Wolf's day. Thus there are not the number of quality players available to Thompson that were available to Wolf.

The article also does not mention who would realistically be available in a trade. And at what position?

Finally, the article criticizes Thompson for letting Kampman "get away." Okay, good Packer rats, raise your hand if you think that Kampman A) would have stayed in a 3-4 for any money, and B) was really the answer at OLB.

It's an article designed to cause a ruckus. That's okay, but it would have helped had the writer offered some realistic possibilities as to who was available and who would have been an upgrade and not just a name.

[sharpe1027]

Re: Wolf and Thompson - JSO Article

This year was an oddity because of the salary cap changes that mucked up the free agency market. I have yet to see anyone present a solid argument for players the Packers missed out on. That says a lot. Usually this is the time of year that people are jumping up and down about players X, Y and Z being signed by other teams and not the Packers. There just doesn't seem to be much out there.

[rbaloha1]

LB does have valid points albeit it is different eras. Outside of Woodson and Pickett, TT failed to sign more impact free agents. Without a doubt, RW's free agents significantly contributed to the super bowl years.

LB fails to mention that the Packers are the 18th youngest team. TT is relying more on "veterans" from within. Does LB want the Packers to be in the top 5 of the oldest teams? TT does sign older proven Packers (Driver, Pickett, Clifton, Woodson, Harris). Yes, it would be nice a few Jared Allens.

The RW legacy is secure. Trust TT shall have his own.

[bobblehead]

Yea, its foolish to compare a completly different era. Let me tell you what I know.

Keys to building a winner in the NFL:

1) Franchise QB (wolf, check, TT, check)

2) Franchise LT (wolf, struggled, but drafted high picks trying, TT, check. he inherited one and may have hit on another now)

3) Pass Rush/DL (wolf, check, God was on his side and handed him Reggie. TT, struggled, but has drafted high picks trying. Finally hit with Mathews)

Wolf flopped drafting Michaels, Verba, and Wahle to be the franchise LT, but finally hit on Clifton.

TT flopped on the DL/pass rush so far drafting Harrell, Raji et al, but finally hit on Mathews. Its also too early to grade Raji as a flop, but he hasn't done much yet.

Free Agency....Wolf had a lot more to pick from, but he got a defensive MVP in Reggie White...TT got one in Woodson.

Just remember, emotional players (Like Butler) and fans (all of us) always think their team is that ONE marquee FA away from winning it all, but TT is on the right strategy. Super Bowls in this era are won from within and through the draft (and a little luck). So far teams that make huge trades for JAllen or JCutler, or sign big tickets like Nate Clemens or AHaynesworth or JPeppers haven't been too successful.

Sure the Moss trade worked for a year, but the Patriots sold out that year and still came up short. now they are paying the price (cut AThomas).

Bottom line is the same as I said last year: TT has the right method, now he has to prove his eye for talent is good enough. I said last year if he failed to win 10 games I would be off the bandwagon. We won 11. This year we must win 10 again AND win a playoff game (or 2 or more). It will help if we don't lose 4 DB's to injury and have Jarret Bush manning the nickel again. It will also help if our RT isn't a turnstile. Me, I'm a fan of TT and have been all along, but I'm a fan....if things crumble I can turn on him like a woman on her period.

[Scott Campbell]

Me, I'm a fan of TT and have been all along, but I'm a fan....if things crumble I can turn on him like a woman on her period.

I think a lot of people would have turned on him if he hadn't stopped the bleeding on the OL during last season.

It's a big year for this front office. They're not coming off losing their franchise QB, and they're not coming off a disappointing 6-10 season. Expectations are high, and I think that's fair. Especially when he's basically said that he likes his guys.

[Lurker64]

When writers do articles like this, it's a tremendous oversight when they don't consider how free agency has changed throughout the years. Teams are much, much, much better at managing the cap now than they used to be. It used to be that you could grab quality players in free agency because they end up being cap casualties for a team who has made a bad decision or two. Nowadays, however, that almost never happens. Very few players who a team wants to keep make it into free agency, and if they do it's because the team made a mistake in structuring his contract (c.f. Rolle with the Cardinals this year).

In the Wolf era, if you signed "the best of what's there" you would end up with some good players. In the Thompson era, if you signed "the best of what's there" you will occasionally get a good player, but you're more likely to end up with a lot of rejects. This doesn't mean that Free Agency is worthless now, it's just a lot harder now than when Wolf was doing it.

Interestingly, I believe that the recent uptick of trades in the NFL (there were very, very few until the Broncos traded Portis for Bailey) is due to the growing realization that you're simply not going to get that difference making player in free agency. If somebody was going to make a big difference for you, he probably would have made one for his former team, who let him walk.

[Cleft Crusty]

"Keys to building a winner in the NFL: "

?Clefty wonders why Coach is missing from this list. Perhaps you are just concentrating on players, so that would explain it. Still, coaching makes a huge difference. Clefty is reminded of the 1981 SF 49ers, loaded with a host of rookies (Lott, Wright, and Williamson) in the defensive backfield and one off the street character (Dwight Hicks) being coached up by a combination of George Seifert and Ray Rhodes. So Clefty believes that all those player acquisitions are important, and agrees with your parallels between the '96 and '10 teams, but the coaches may be key, especially in an era of reduced free agency and Thompson's strong bias towards building through the draft.

[CaptainKickass]

I'm pretty sure there is one case in point argument for TT's approach.

The one run Seattle had to the SB. I'm pretty sure TT proceeded in much the same way with building the ChickenHawks as he has with the Pack thus far.

Now - certainly the Chickens didn't win it - but the players were there, they were built much the same way, and had a chance to get the Lombardi trophy.

I think the talent on this team is fantastic. It is absolutely up to the coaching staff to put these talented men in a position to succeed.

[ThunderDan]

Now - certainly the Chickens didn't win it - but the players were there, they were built much the same way, and had a chance to get the Lombardi trophy.

Neither did the Steelers in my book. I chalk that SB to the zebras.

[CaptainKickass]

Now - certainly the Chickens didn't win it - but the players were there, they were built much the same way, and had a chance to get the Lombardi trophy.

Neither did the Steelers in my book. I chalk that SB to the zebras.

Can't disagree with that. The Seattle locals refer to Pittsburgh as the "Steal-ers"

[bobblehead]

"Keys to building a winner in the NFL: "

?Clefty wonders why Coach is missing from this list. Perhaps you are just concentrating on players, so that would explain it. Still, coaching makes a huge difference. Clefty is reminded of the 1981 SF 49ers, loaded with a host of rookies (Lott, Wright, and Williamson) in the defensive backfield and one off the street character (Dwight Hicks) being coached up by a combination of George Seifert and Ray Rhodes. So Clefty believes that all those player acquisitions are important, and agrees with your parallels between the '96 and '10 teams, but the coaches may be key, especially in an era of reduced free agency and Thompson's strong bias towards building through the draft.

Oversight on my part:

Wolf went out and got a west coast coach who had a reputation for developing a QB and being able to design an offensive gameplan to score on anyone.

TT went out and got a west coach coach who showed some good promise in developing QB's and designing offensive gameplans that managed to score even with retards like Aaron Brooks at the QB position.

[3irty1]

The article fails to mention the contributions of:

Craig Newsome, 1st round pick of the 1995 draft as well as starting corner, circus-catch-interception-maker, and fumble-forcer of Superbowl XXXI.

William Henderson, 3rd round pick of the 1995 draft as well as starting fullback of Superbowl XXXI who would go on to become a probowler.

Antonio Freeman, 3rd round pick of the 1995 NFL draft as well as starting WR and go-ahead-record-length-touchdown-catcher of Superbowl XXXI. He'd also made numberous plays in the playoffs as a rookie and would go on to be a probowler and receive phat lewt contract after which he never tried again--still a great draft pick though.

Travis Jervey, 5th round selection in the 1995 draft who would later go to the Probowl with the Packers for his exceptional contributions on kick coverage.

Adam Timmerman, 7th round pick in the 1995 draft and starting right guard of Super Bowl XXXI who would later become a two time probowler.

These guys had as much to do with the magical free agent signings of the '95 offseason and if there's anything we can learn from this its that it doesn't matter where the players come from.

[Joemailman]

I disagree with Butler's criticism because I disagree with his premise that there is a huge gap between the Packers and Vikings if Favre comes back. There is not. Last year the Vikings were fortunate to play the Packers twice when the Packers OL was in disarray. Neither Clifton or Tauscher played against the Vikings last year. Unfortunately, Allen Barbre did. The Packers were 7-1 in the 2nd half of the season, while the Vikings were 5-3. If the two teams had played each other in the 2nd half of the season, I think there is a very good chance the Packers would have beaten them.

[mraynrand]

Good points Joe. I also note that this year, like last, the Vikings escape without having to play in a cold Lambeau. If you look at the Vikings schedule, they have a very comfortable late Nov. and Dec schedule with home games and a road dome game. Coincidence? It's a good thing I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, or I might be suspicious about this one....

[hoosier]

Agree that article is short-sighted and deficient for its failure to consider how FA has changed in the last twenty years, and for failing to look at what additions TT could have made if he really wanted to. It does, however, offer the NYJ as a contrast. And what additions did the Jets make? They traded a for Antonio Cromartie (in exchange for a #3 w/ possibility of becoming a #2) and they signed a slew of FAs including some former stars who are now on their last legs (LT, Jason Taylor), a serviceable kicker (Nick Folk), a special teams specialist (Lance Laury) and some depth in the secondary (Brodney Poole). Would the Packers have been a better team if TT had successfully pursued any of these players? It's hard to say. None of them look as productive as Santana Dotson, who was a productive but unhappy Buccaneer still in his prime. But Beebe, Wilkerson and Howard looked like they were all but washed up when Wolf signed them in '96, and they both turned out to be surprise key contributors. Of the guys signed by the Jets I think Cromartie and Taylor would clearly improve GBs depth at important positions, but it's impossible to say whether Taylor would have considered Green Bay and equally hard to say whether Cromartie's on again, off again talent would be worth the investment.