Packers D to Decline in 2010?

[sharpe1027]

Re: Official More Favre/Vikings Banter Thread

.................................................. ..,,,,...Difference in Ranking yr. 1 to yr. 2
....................Pts. Rank........Yds. Rank...............Pts..............Yds.
Steelers
92.....................2....................13
93.....................8.....................3.... ..................-6................10
Panthers
95.....................8.....................7
96.....................2....................10.... ...................6................-3
Jaguars
99.....................1.....................4
00....................16...................12..... ................-15...............-8
Texans
02.....................20...................16
03.....................27...................31.... .................-7...............-15
Dolphins
06......................5....................4
07.....................30..................23..... ...............-25...............-19

Average Difference from Yr. 1 to Yr. 2.......-9.4................-7

Packers
09.....................7....................2
Projected 2010...16...................9

How about turnovers and sacks:
Steelers
92 - 22 ints + 21 fumbles = 43 TO.................36 sacks
93 - 24 ints + 17 fumbles = 38 TO.................42 sacks

-5 TO; + 6 sacks

Panthers
95 - 21 ints + 16 fumbles = 37 TO..................36 sacks
96 - 22 ints + 16 fumbles = 38 TO..................60 sacks

+1 TO; +24 sacks

Jaguars
99 - 19 ints + 11 fumbles = 30 TO..................57 sacks
00 - 12 ints + 18 fumbles = 30 TO..................40 sacks

+0 TO; -20 sacks

Texans
02 - 10 ints + 11 fumbles = 21 TO..................35 sacks
03 - 14 ints + 8 fumbles. = 22 TO..................19 sacks

+1 TO; -16 sacks

Dolphins
06 - 8. ints + 19 fumbles = 27 TO...................47 sacks
07 - 14 ints + 8. fumbles = 22 TO...................30 sacks

-5 TO; -17 sacks

Totals:
-1.6 TO; -6.6 sacks

Packers
09 - 30 ints + 10 fumbles = 40 TO...................37 sacks
Projected:
10 - 38.4 TO; 30.4 sacks

[mraynrand]

See Roethlisberger's last pass.

[mraynrand]

I think Peyton is better than Favre ever was, but that's just one guys opinion.

We disagree. I don't know if I've had this conversatin with you, but I've had it with others. It ends the same way, nobody changes their mind.

I understand your opinion. You might be right. It's going to take time to see how much that guy is missed. I'm guessing not much at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucRpjpU3KoE

Manning couldn't do this when he was 23, much less at 38. Favre is Favre, and makes a lot of plays no one, and I mean no one could ever make at the QB position. He may have his complete screw ups, and playoff melt downs, but more than anything he makes your jaw drop to the floor, and that is what makes him special.

Manning, and Brady? Sure they are good, even great but I have never watched P. Manning and saw magic, saw something no one else has ever done on a football field.

Another play I have never seen Payton Manning make, at any age, much less at age 40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un3B7Og-FS0&feature=related

Again, Manning has his own form of greatness, but for my entertainment dollar Favre wins hands down

Those are great plays, no doubt. Favre is a unique, fantastic gamer. Is there a Manning play quite like this one:

http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=favremoonshot.flv

[RashanGary]

I think Peyton is better than Favre ever was, but that's just one guys opinion.

We disagree. I don't know if I've had this conversatin with you, but I've had it with others. It ends the same way, nobody changes their mind.

I understand your opinion. You might be right. It's going to take time to see how much that guy is missed. I'm guessing not much at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucRpjpU3KoE

Manning couldn't do this when he was 23, much less at 38. Favre is Favre, and makes a lot of plays no one, and I mean no one could ever make at the QB position. He may have his complete screw ups, and playoff melt downs, but more than anything he makes your jaw drop to the floor, and that is what makes him special.

Manning, and Brady? Sure they are good, even great but I have never watched P. Manning and saw magic, saw something no one else has ever done on a football field.

Another play I have never seen Payton Manning make, at any age, much less at age 40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un3B7Og-FS0&feature=related

Again, Manning has his own form of greatness, but for my entertainment dollar Favre wins hands down

Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Bart Starr and Troy Aikman, none of them had as many amazing plays as Brett Favre. . . . They played within themselves, within the team and only cared about winning. When everything was on the line, when the championship was within reach, they didn't have a habit of doing this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whk0VTuMAdU

I don't care if Bert used to be strong, used to have a big arm, used to make amazing plays. He's had a lot of chances at rings and failed because his focus was on the amazing, not on winning.

Watching Brett Favre is like watching the best And-1 player. It's spectacular. It makes your jaw drop, but when the team blends together and become's one, that Stephon Marburry might look great out there, but his team isn't a champ. Go get your ticket to the next and-1 game, get your ticket to the Vikings. I'm hoping to see a championship in GB. I'll buy my Packer tickets, thanks.

Good riddance Bert.

[get louder at lambeau]

Again, Manning has his own form of greatness, but for my entertainment dollar Favre wins hands down

Agreed for entertainment value, by far. You never know what you'll get with Faver, so it's extremely exciting.

If I was going to pick one to win a game for me though, I'd take Manning hands down. He's just a better QB overall, even if he has a less exciting style of play.

[Upnorth]

Regarding Favre, as of last year he was still one of the best in the league, and if he plays this year has a good chance of remaining one of the best in the league.
Still I would take AR as my QB, and would have in 2008 and 2009 as well, because I want the packers to be great for the next decade, not just next year or two.
Getting back to the team, was there overhauls done on the defense between the first and second year of the previous teams Capers coached?
If not, I do not like what this implies.

[Pugger]

Favre is capable of jaw-dropping plays no doubt. He is exciting if nothing else. But his propensity to screw up, especially in big games, is his Achille's heel and why I'd choose Manning, Brady or Brees if the game was on the line and I had to choose a QB other than the guy currently starting for that team at 1265. In a big game you want a QB that will play smart and not try to force the ball when it isn't necessary.

[sharpe1027]

Favre is capable of jaw-dropping plays no doubt. He is exciting if nothing else. But his propensity to screw up, especially in big games, is his Achille's heel and why I'd choose Manning, Brady or Brees if the game was on the line and I had to choose a QB other than the guy currently starting for that team at 1265. In a big game you want a QB that will play smart and not try to force the ball when it isn't necessary.

Maybe, but I still believe that there is some concern that the Packer's defense might actually take a step back in their second year.

One theory is that Capers is great at adjusting his schemes to fit his current players, and this is difficult for opposing teams to adjust to because he often uses very unique solutions. However, going into his second year, the players remain largely the same so his schemes are also largely the same. Teams are given enough time to analyze and prepare and thus the drop from first year to second year.

IDK how accurate that is, because haven't looked in depth at any of the teams, but he does seem to shake things up in his first year.

[Bretsky]

Doesn't the Favre talk belong in the Favre thread?

I stopped counting the number of times the "F" word appears in this thread when I got to 60.

[Upnorth]

So how about that D.
Vince, could you restart the thread because this is a much more important issue than still fighting over 4.
After seeing the regression from yr 1 to yr 2 coupled with an aging starting CB's I don't like where the Pack might be heading.

[Fritz]

I have faith that Lee and/or Underwood will step up. If the team can stay healthy, I'm feeling pretty good.

[Tony Oday]

I have faith that Lee and/or Underwood will step up. If the team can stay healthy, I'm feeling pretty good.

I hope I am wrong but I feel impending doom in our pass defense. I mean this is the year most of the guys either "get" it or get das boot!

[vince]

So how about that D.
Vince, could you restart the thread because this is a much more important issue than still fighting over 4.
After seeing the regression from yr 1 to yr 2 coupled with an aging starting CB's I don't like where the Pack might be heading.

I just saw this request Upnorth. I changed the title back to the original.

I'm with Fritz on the outlook for this year. You have to expect the team to continue to be stout against the run, so it comes down to the passing defense. I think we'll see more pressure dialed up and better coverage this year in 'big' games.

It seemed to be the "elite"ish QB's that did the damage last year. While it's practically impossible to predict, the schedule would appear to be overall a bit tougher, but maybe fewer "elite" passing QB's are on the schedule.

Favre and Brady will probably be the two best, plus Eli Manning and McNabb, neither of whom are in that category as passers IMO. Also, Matt Ryan and probably improved Stafford and Cutler twice each, although I'd place each of them a notch below elite as well at this point. We can probably expect Romo to bounce back. Then there's Sanchez, Kolb (in the opener), Henne, Smith and whoever outlasts the others in Buffalo... I wouldn't expect any of them to light up the scoreboard. Smith did have a pretty good second half against the Packers in 2009 though with 3 TD passes after halftime.

[Fritz]

It really does start with pressure, but even so, you can blitz a million guys but if it's a quick drop and throw, you can have a hard time putting pressure on. So you've got to have the coverage. But Pat Lee was a second round guy, I believe, and MM seems to think Underwood has started to grow up. So let's cross our fingers for Harris's recovery, and go Pack!

[Packers4Ever]

Players who should get better

Matthews
Jones
Raji


Should drop off

Woodson


Should stay the same

Everyone else (assuming Jolly misses only 4 games)



Just talent, I think we got better. Being in the 2nd year, we should be a little further along early.



I don't see a drop off. Dom is going to work on rezone defense. He seems like a good, experienced coach. I'd expect improvement there. I would expect he will clean up some of the confusion we had with nickle and dime defenses as well.

Overall, I think last years defense was moderately overrated. This year we should have a slightly better defense. I'd call it a good, solid defense. Compared to last year, I'd say it should be similar with less glaring mistakes.

Don't count on Woody to 'drop off' - - !! :P