Packers D to Decline in 2010?

[packerbacker1234]

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Harris's injury really didn't even affect us last year? I've always thought the guy was overrated.

Are you the only one who didn't think the injury hurt us last year?

Yes, you are.

Are you the only one who thinks he is overrated?

No, as you can see. I am not sure Harris was ever in the elite status, even during his prime. However, as others have pointed out, even with being overrated in terms of how good he really is, he is still better then a majority of the corners in the league. The one thing he can attribute himself to is being one of the single best press corners in the game. Does he do it as well as an elite corner like Revis? No. But he is still really good at it (or at least, was good at it last year pre injury). He freed Woodson up to be more of a play maker and not necessarily locked on one guy at all times. Woodson is so great all around that it almost feels like a crying shame to have to always have him locked up on the best WR all game.

When harris was around last season, Woodson was rarely locked on the #1 guy. They put harris on him one on one most the game and that freed Woodson up to be all over the field. As good as Williams was last year, I still don't think he was as affective as Harris was.

All you need to do is look at the arizona playoff game. Sure, one big issue was the lack of pressure we got on Warner, but another big issue was the break downs in coverage. Woodson had a "bad" game (well, it's debatable given the push offs fitz got away with), we had williams... and then bam, everyone else seemed to be open all day. Doucet? Remember that guy? Thats our 3rd CB's responsibility. They didn't even have breaston that game right? So it was their 4th wr... and our nickle corner couldn't cover him. I'm just saying it is really obvious that we missed Harris. Given how close that game was, his presence alone may have single handidly changed the complection of the game.

[pbmax]

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Harris's injury really didn't even affect us last year? I've always thought the guy was overrated.

I think he's overrated, but I also think he's still better than 3/4 of the DBs out there.

Hard for me to remember the Arizona game that ended our season and think that his injury didn't affect us. The that memory sparks memories of Big Ben throwing for 500+, and it's hard to imagine that happening with Harris and Charles both healthy.

A lot could be different if for no other reason than luck of injury in the backfield as Bretsky mentioned earlier. I am under no illusions about the pass rush, but Capers clearly pulled in his horns when his backfield was decimated.

I would be OK trusting for the injuries to balance out, but three of the guys the Packers may need to step up (Lee, Underwood and Blackmon) have been injured before. They will need a very solid fourth CB to cover for Harris and allow for the team to play nickel while he regains form.

[packerbacker1234]

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Harris's injury really didn't even affect us last year? I've always thought the guy was overrated.

I think he's overrated, but I also think he's still better than 3/4 of the DBs out there.

Hard for me to remember the Arizona game that ended our season and think that his injury didn't affect us. The that memory sparks memories of Big Ben throwing for 500+, and it's hard to imagine that happening with Harris and Charles both healthy.

A lot could be different if for no other reason than luck of injury in the backfield as Bretsky mentioned earlier. I am under no illusions about the pass rush, but Capers clearly pulled in his horns when his backfield was decimated.

I would be OK trusting for the injuries to balance out, but three of the guys the Packers may need to step up (Lee, Underwood and Blackmon) have been injured before. They will need a very solid fourth CB to cover for Harris and allow for the team to play nickel while he regains form.

Yeah, someone is going to have to step up, unless for a miracle reason Harris pulls off returning in time for game one in game shape.

We all know how well harris takes care of his body, his workouts, and the how hard he is working on returning to his full range of motion. We've seen the videos, and there are not many defensive players out there I can respect as much as I do harris for what he does for this team and how he maintains himself off the field.

[retailguy]

Silly me. I missed ALL this hype!- "Slightly better"? "Good, solid"? "Similar, with less glaring mistakes"? CRAZY TALK!

No wonder you aren't buying "all the hype about our defense"! I somehow didn't realize how unrealistically optimistic JH was being in the post you responded to the first time I read it. You're right, I should learn how to read more betterer. Thanks for the advice.

Here's a little friendly advice for you in return. Get some sunlight and excercise. Maybe even listen to the nice lady in the commercials and ask your doctor about Wellbutrin.

You're biggest problem? You don't even know you're an idiot. Good grief, learn to read.

[retailguy]

Am I the only one who doesn't think that Harris's injury really didn't even affect us last year? I've always thought the guy was overrated.

YES....you might be the only one.

What happens at Harris' position is a big key to what this defense winds up being.

[wist43]

Last year was an aberration... yes the defense was vastly improved from the previous few years, but they didn't play anyone - half their games came against the worst offenses in the league.

When they came up against a good offense, with a good QB... Capers went and hid in the corner hoping to hold them under 50.

I expect the defense to be marginally improved, but their numbers won't be as good; and, I fully expect Capers to continue to be ultra-conservative against good offenses with good QB's.

One thing about last year was not an aberration of the defense. We played very well on offense, esp. the 2nd half of the season) and frequently had a lead. That helps suppress the opposition's run game. As for the pass, it was very similar to 2007. When they got to the QB, it was a success. When they didn't, all bets were off.

I agree with all of that... but, I do think they were pretty solid against the run.

Pass rush is everything... last year our pass rush consisted of Clay Matthew and Dom Capers. Clay was pretty consistent; Dom sometimes showed up, and sometimes he didn't. When he put together aggressive and well thought out game plans, the defense was tough; when he scrabbled up a call sheet consisting of static fronts and 4 man rushes, the defense got shredded.

Even with TT's anemic offseason, at least in terms of helping the pass rush, I think we could make some noise, if Dom grew a pair.

[RashanGary]

Raji, Matthews and Jones all stand to improve with strength conditioning and experience. I think that's a good, common sense thought.

And we missed Harris for half of the season (the half that we won games). I'm sure having him is better than not having him.

And if we can get our back 7 on the same page, maybe Dom can do what Wist is calling for.

[Joemailman]

Hard to predict how everything will shake out on defense. However, I do think there are more guys likely to be better than there are guys likely to be worse. If Al declines, the big question is whether they have someone (Lee, Underwood, Blackmon) to adequately fill the nickel back role. They didn't last year, but then they didn't have Blackmon and Lee due to injuries. If the Packers end up at sometime this season with Jarrett Bush at nickel, it will be fair to say that TT did not do his job. I'm reasonably confident that won't happen though.

[get louder at lambeau]

Silly me. I missed ALL this hype!- "Slightly better"? "Good, solid"? "Similar, with less glaring mistakes"? CRAZY TALK!

No wonder you aren't buying "all the hype about our defense"! I somehow didn't realize how unrealistically optimistic JH was being in the post you responded to the first time I read it. You're right, I should learn how to read more betterer. Thanks for the advice.

Here's a little friendly advice for you in return. Get some sunlight and excercise. Maybe even listen to the nice lady in the commercials and ask your doctor about Wellbutrin.

You're biggest problem? You don't even know you're an idiot. Good grief, learn to read.

Wow, ya got me there. Twice in a row with "learn to read"! Ouch. Burn.

[The Leaper]

Dom also might just be unlucky and has always seemed to face a tougher array of offensive teams in his second seasons. Let's face it...Green Bay played a pussy schedule last year. The defense was not nearly as good as their stats suggested. I fully expect this defense to come back to earth a little this year. We ain't getting all the turnovers we did last year.

Still...a tougher schedule and some adversity in the regular season is probably good for this team. Make the playoffs, and it's anyone's title to win.

[mraynrand]

Silly me. I missed ALL this hype!- "Slightly better"? "Good, solid"? "Similar, with less glaring mistakes"? CRAZY TALK!

No wonder you aren't buying "all the hype about our defense"! I somehow didn't realize how unrealistically optimistic JH was being in the post you responded to the first time I read it. You're right, I should learn how to read more betterer. Thanks for the advice.

Here's a little friendly advice for you in return. Get some sunlight and excercise. Maybe even listen to the nice lady in the commercials and ask your doctor about Wellbutrin.

You're biggest problem? You don't even know you're an idiot. Good grief, learn to read.

Wow, ya got me there. Twice in a row with "learn to read"! Ouch. Burn.

Wayne Campbell: Am I supposed to be a man, am I supposed to say it's okay, I don't mind? I don't mind. Well, I mind! I mind big-time! And you know what the worst part is? I NEVER LEARNED TO READ!
Cassandra: Is that true?
Wayne Campbell: Yes, everything except the reading part.

[get louder at lambeau]

Silly me. I missed ALL this hype!- "Slightly better"? "Good, solid"? "Similar, with less glaring mistakes"? CRAZY TALK!

No wonder you aren't buying "all the hype about our defense"! I somehow didn't realize how unrealistically optimistic JH was being in the post you responded to the first time I read it. You're right, I should learn how to read more betterer. Thanks for the advice.

Here's a little friendly advice for you in return. Get some sunlight and excercise. Maybe even listen to the nice lady in the commercials and ask your doctor about Wellbutrin.

You're biggest problem? You don't even know you're an idiot. Good grief, learn to read.

Wow, ya got me there. Twice in a row with "learn to read"! Ouch. Burn.

Wayne Campbell: Am I supposed to be a man, am I supposed to say it's okay, I don't mind? I don't mind. Well, I mind! I mind big-time! And you know what the worst part is? I NEVER LEARNED TO READ!
Cassandra: Is that true?
Wayne Campbell: Yes, everything except the reading part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u9UWw5PPYQ&feature=related

[Tony Oday]

I keep hearing that we are going to be playing such a tougher schedule so lets break it down:

1 Sun Sep 12, 2010 @Eagles 4:15 PM: New QB, RB and really this team will need tome to Gel if it even can

2 Sun Sep 19, 2010 Bills 1:00 PM The Bills, do they even suit up WR anymore?

3 Mon Sep 27, 2010 @Bears 8:30 PM ET Cutler is not that great with a terrible O line and second string WR.

4 Sun Oct 3, 2010 Lions 1:00 PM ET They are the Lions...they will be better but we have Optimus Prime (Woodson) and he always beats Megatron (CJ) in the end

5 Sun Oct 10, 2010 @Redskins 1:00 PM ET A bunch of older players with McNabb as a QB, if he is still healthy...big if...they will be better than last year

6 Sun Oct 17, 2010 Dolphins 1:00 PM ET Brandon Marshall is the WR threat but this is a running team

7 Sun Oct 24, 2010 Vikings 8:20 PM ET With Favre at top tilt they have a great offense, without him or a lesser Favre this team has a RB that like to fumble

8 Sun Oct 31, 2010 @Jets 1:00 PM ET The Jets are legit and its in NY this is a test.
9 Sun Nov 7, 2010 Cowboys 8:20 PM ET Good Offense but are they better than last year?
10 --- BYE 7 WEEK ---
11 Sun Nov 21, 2010 @Vikings 1:00 PM ET ditto

12 Sun Nov 28, 2010 @Falcons 1:00 PM ET Good team but by this time Turner will be wearing down

13 Sun Dec 5, 2010 49ers 1:00 PM ET 9ers have a decent offense but it hinges on the QB

14 Sun Dec 12, 2010 @Lions 1:00 PM ET ditto

15 Sun Dec 19, 2010 @Patriots 8:20 PM ET Always potent but Brady and Moss have to click and Wes is what makes this offense tick

16 Sun Dec 26, 2010 Giants 4:15 PM ET Eli...bleh...

17 Sun Jan 2, 2011 Bears 1:00 PM ET Ditto


So what is the big difference this year? No AZ, No N.O., No SD, No IND, No Hou, No AFC north...I think we face about the same this year.

Keys this year:
C Wood to play a step below last year. If he can play like last year well save him a spot in the Hall cause last year was SICK!

Harris and Tramon to cover 1 and 3 WR if this can happen WOW we can really put a hurt on teams

CMIII to not have a sophmore slump

Jones dont mess up too bad

Raji time to get some preasure

Hawk...PLEASE Hawk play with some abandon!

Picket and the rotation on the DL eat space and stop the run

Collins and TBD SS please play good

Our defense does NOT need to be the Bears, Ravens or Steelers of old. They need to only give up 3 TDs a game and we should win every game.

[Gunakor]

I am not sure Harris was ever in the elite status.

A lot of elite NFL WR's thought he was.

In his prime, when he was healthy, no QB dared throw at him. Note that the oppositions #1 WR's were effectively taken out of the game when they played GB. Rarely topping 50 yards, and even more rarely scoring TD's. I think it may have been 2005, or 2006, or one of the seasons right around then, when Harris gave up 100 yards to only ONE player all season, that being Roy Williams in a game @ Detroit. Most of that yardage came on a single play, a play that resulted in the only TD Harris gave up on the entire season. And that play could at least in part be blamed on Marquand Manuel for being so far out of position to offer any help over the top.

Harris was never a ballhawk. He wasn't the guy to count on if you badly needed a turnover. But he can cover you like a blanket. He's a ferocious tackler. In his prime, I don't know if there's more than a handful of better man to man corners in the history of the league.

Just ask the guys he was covering.

[mraynrand]

Silly me. I missed ALL this hype!- "Slightly better"? "Good, solid"? "Similar, with less glaring mistakes"? CRAZY TALK!

No wonder you aren't buying "all the hype about our defense"! I somehow didn't realize how unrealistically optimistic JH was being in the post you responded to the first time I read it. You're right, I should learn how to read more betterer. Thanks for the advice.

Here's a little friendly advice for you in return. Get some sunlight and excercise. Maybe even listen to the nice lady in the commercials and ask your doctor about Wellbutrin.

You're biggest problem? You don't even know you're an idiot. Good grief, learn to read.

Wow, ya got me there. Twice in a row with "learn to read"! Ouch. Burn.

Wayne Campbell: Am I supposed to be a man, am I supposed to say it's okay, I don't mind? I don't mind. Well, I mind! I mind big-time! And you know what the worst part is? I NEVER LEARNED TO READ!
Cassandra: Is that true?
Wayne Campbell: Yes, everything except the reading part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u9UW...eature=related

LOL. This thread needs to be at least ... 3 times bigger!