Packer Player Under Investigation In Sexual Assault

[GBRulz]

Btw, I came on here to read the latest as I first heard about this on the news. Yup, a local SC news station! The Packers never make the news here!!

[MJZiggy]

Btw, I came on here to read the latest as I first heard about this on the news. Yup, a local SC news station! The Packers never make the news here!!

Oh boy! Then I'm sure they'll have heard about it at work. This should be fun tomorrow...

[pbmax]

Damn, these girls are 31 and 33. I'm sorry, but Underwood is a 23 year old guy. Using common sense, if anyone is young and dumb here, it's Underwood. These are two grizzled vets, out on the town, like they probably have been a hundred times. They're alone, in a hotel room, with Brandon Underwood, getting sexually assaulted together.

31 and 33 is old enough to know how to say no and old enough to know they could get money out of this. I've never read one of these that read like a complete set up until this one. If Underwood did it, shame on him. Just reading what's available though, it sounds very suspicious.

To someone who imagines the worst of one side of the story (grizzled veterans who know they could get some money) and then imagines the best (Underwood is young and dumb) about the other side, I have no problem seeing how you come to the conclusion that this is a setup.

I rest easier assuming (perhaps I should not) that you do not have a critical position at work, like nuclear launch technician, police officer, FBI agent or trash collector. Because a trash collector who reasons like you would haul away the car I do not keep in the garage. Because, after all, who would keep a working car in the driveway when they have a perfectly good garage to use?

[Bretsky]

HERE WAS A POINT ALSO MADE IN JS


When apprised that the investigation centered on Underwood, 23, several players who wished to remain anonymous said he had been a problem since he was drafted in the sixth round in 2009 out of Cincinnati. Cornerbacks coach Joe Whitt talked last season about Underwood being immature early in his rookie season.

[Tarlam!]

I rest easier assuming (perhaps I should not) that you do not have a critical position at work, like nuclear launch technician, police officer, FBI agent or trash collector. Because a trash collector who reasons like you would haul away the car I do not keep in the garage. Because, after all, who would keep a working car in the driveway when they have a perfectly good garage to use?

Stop it, PB! You're killing me!

[wootah]

On a related note, it seems like Clay Matthews is throwing his teammate under the bus a bit, either to cover his own ass or perhaps because he's representing the frustration he and his teammates feel for Underwood's repeated behavior.

I guess the fact that this happened after a fundraiser organized by Matthews' charity organization also plays a role; he'd might have some explaining to do for his sponsors.

[CaliforniaCheez]

After reading the law there are some problems.


Blood alcohol level.
If she was too drunk to say "no" it is assault.
If she was passed out at any point no matter how brief it is assault.

Psycho - If she has a mental illness it is assault. Nowdays that is a very loose definition.

The Law is far too wide open for a DA.
For example "sexual assault law does not require proof of stimulation of the clitoris or vulva for finding cunnilingus"

"Expert testimony is not required in every case to establish the existence of a mental illness or deficiency rendering the victim unable to appraise his or her conduct"

"The victim's belief that the defendant was armed is enough"

The "use or threat of force or violence" does not require that the force be directed toward compelling the victim's submission, but includes forcible contact or the force used as the means of making contact. (Pushing to the bed or one rollover in it seems enough or holding hands)

"The sexual assault statute includes any intrusion of any part of a person's body." (Don't bump into anyone in a crowd, kiss someone, or give a wet willie)

And the biggie. "Failure to resist is not consent."




Wisconsin you have a huge problem with they way the law is written.


Holding hands, hugging, or initiating a kiss can send you to prison.

The victim can appear sober but any measurable amount the victim can claim to be too drunk and send you to prison. Her claim is the only standard.

Any mental illness or phobia means the person is off limits or you go to prison.

The victim only has to say that they believed the other person had a weapon or believed a muscular person was threatening by the appearance of their muscles is enough to send you to prison. The victim's belief is the only standard.

Heaven help Underwood if some man-hating bull dyke assistant district attorney with a castrating fetish gets a hold of this case, if he is arrested.

We all saw the injustice done to Chumura when the girl's hymen was still intact.

[packrulz]

This quote is a red flag to me :

The women initially indicated more than one player was involved, according to police.

Why would they both say that, then change their story?

[RashanGary]

I'm saying, of the 31 and 33 year old people I know and the 23 year old people I know, there aren't too many 23 year old people I know that have that type of power over much more mature and experienced people. The context seems strange there.

It's hard for me to imagine sexual assault. It's the type of horrible that really has no excuse. I tend to think almost all people have more loving hearts than to do that to another person. When I read something like this, I have a hard time believing a person assaulted another person.

But then again, at work, I'm shocked at how backstabbing and deceitful people can be. I'm shocked sometimes how many people hate other people for being different. I think it's likely that I do have a distorted view of people. It seems so obvious to everyone else that he did it. I'll be shocked if he sexually assaulted them, but it's possible I'm just wrong and that people do that to other people a lot more than I think.

[vince]

Reading CC's breakdown, it's clear that there are a lot of ways it could be assault, particularly with alchohol involved and at that hour of the morning. Everyone could have been partying and the girls were too drunk to drive so they passed out in a room, only to have Underwood follow them in without their permission. If they were too inebriated, and/or if Underwood was too inebriated, there could easily be a problem.

Also, there's a video of Matthews comments on JSO here. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/95730719.html

He was there. What he says and how he says it seems condemning.

[Joemailman]

I think Vince is right. If it turns out Underwood was the only one involved, and no one else did anything wrong, he may be let go just for the sake of team camaraderie, if nothing else. It sounded to me like Matthews and Flynn were really pissed off for being dragged into this story. The others probably are as well. It's not like Underwood has done much to this point to garner much loyalty from either the players or the organization. Letting him go would be an easy way for the organization to send a message to everyone that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated in Green Bay.

[Tarlam!]

Mathews was accused of roiding and denied it, but the press must have been terrifying for a kid hoping to be drafted, so, him publicly criticizing Underwood throws up a bunch of red flags. Either CMIII is a real prick, or Underwood is.

[hoosier]

Damn, these girls are 31 and 33. I'm sorry, but Underwood is a 23 year old guy. Using common sense, if anyone is young and dumb here, it's Underwood. These are two grizzled vets, out on the town, like they probably have been a hundred times. They're alone, in a hotel room, with Brandon Underwood, getting sexually assaulted together.

31 and 33 is old enough to know how to say no and old enough to know they could get money out of this. I've never read one of these that read like a complete set up until this one. If Underwood did it, shame on him. Just reading what's available though, it sounds very suspicious.

To someone who imagines the worst of one side of the story (grizzled veterans who know they could get some money) and then imagines the best (Underwood is young and dumb) about the other side, I have no problem seeing how you come to the conclusion that this is a setup.

I rest easier assuming (perhaps I should not) that you do not have a critical position at work, like nuclear launch technician, police officer, FBI agent or trash collector. Because a trash collector who reasons like you would haul away the car I do not keep in the garage. Because, after all, who would keep a working car in the driveway when they have a perfectly good garage to use?

Relax, Justin is only a surgeon.

[Tarlam!]

It's not like Underwood has done much to this point to garner much loyalty from either the players or the organization. Letting him go would be an easy way for the organization to send a message to everyone that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated in Green Bay.

Finely hadn't done much and was a pain in the ass, until last season. Lord Favre was a pain in the ass a couple of seasons and continually betrayed his wife. I'm sure the list of PITA is long and venerable.

With Goodell raging, attitudes from players have evolved, I guess. But at this stage, all the public know for certain is that Underwood has admitted to adultery. Whether or not he committed a crime or merely is a victim of poor judgement or a setup is yet to be determined. He has not been charged let alone convicted.

I, for one, still value the mantra "innocent until proven guilty" and I would hope that the Packers (players, coaches and front office) share in that mantra. Apparently not, judging by CMIII's comments. If I am Underwood and my crimes against humanity were insufferable immaturity and cheating on my wife, then I'd have a locker room issue with my team "mates" for certain.

[RashanGary]

First of all, until we have all the facts it's just speculation. Secondly, to say that the women are older and should know better has nothing to do with this. When someone says no, age doesn't matter. Then again, of all the years i've known you, your derogatory comments toward women certainly do not surprise me.

Whatever opinions you have of me are just that, opinions. I feel good about how I treat the people around me. I met you, in person. I feel like I treated you the same way I treat all other people in this world and that's with respect and acceptance in all areas, even where we're different.

I think there's an opinion here that I'm sexist, racist and everything in between. I never grew up with different races, but my 7 year old son has a slightly more ethnicly diverse group. His best friend at school is black. I think it's beautiful to see that my son is free of the stereotypes and closed mindedness that I grew up around. When he described his best friend to me, he said he had black hair like me and dark skin like me (I'm a really tan, black haired white person). He's never heard a racist comment, so he judges his friends only on how they treat him.

And how he treats other kids (girls and boys). When I see what my son accomplishes at school I'm really happy for him because he excels so much. But that's a very distant 2nd to how wonderful of a person he is to the people around him.

Maybe I'm being the typical parent here with the wonderfully distorted view of their kids, but. . . For as amazing of a person as I see my son is turning out to be, I didn't do any of if. All I did was show unconditional love (loved him when he was good, loved him when he screwed up, loved him when he was the best, loved him when he was the worst). When I was frustrated, I laughed and hugged them. When I was amazed by him, I did the same thing. No matter what he turns out to be (a football player or ballerina), I am going to give him the same rock-steady love and support. I've never punished my son. I've never rewarded my son. I don't control his actions. All I do his provide love, honesty and support. And you know what, people who believe punishments and rewards teach kids how to act. . . . If they see my son, they're going to think I'm the most skilled punisher and rewarder on the planet because my son respects me in a way that I know by watching other parents is rare. But he's never been punished, ever. Never been rewarded, ever. . . He is what people are until you screw them up by trying to control them, and that is good to others around him.

So, for all of those who want to judge me, whatever. . . That's your choice. I can see how you do it. But the things I do in this world, the effect I have on other people in my life. . . I feel really good about myself. I listen, I learn, I change over time, hopefully for the better, but I'm going to keep being the best person I can be and be satisfied with that.