Concerns for 2010 (No Particular Order)

[falco]

Re: Concerns for 2010 (No Particular Order)

1. ILB next to Barnett. Bishop is not the answer. Can Chillar play an entire season at this position? Can Hawk start forcing turnovers? Is Hawk second team?

2. Tramon Williams. Obviously the dude is going to be picked-on. Against better receivers he is consistently beat.

3. Nickel db. Maybe its Shields. Underwood makes too many mistakes. Lee is okay but has not stepped-up.

4. Backup to Grant. Jackson gets hurt and fumbles. The other 2 are unproven in the regular season.

5. Returners except for Blackmon.

Omissions or deletions?

#1 by a large margin, for me at least, pass rush.

Not just pass rush, but pass rush from the OLBs. I think the DL is going to be okay. I think our secondary will be just fine, but not if the QB has all day to throw. Matthews needs to be 100% at week 1, and someone needs to add pressure from the other side. I hope CWood gets to blitz a lot again this year as well.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

The OL has been this teams achilles heel for the past 3 seasons. It has been the driving factor to slow starts the past two years. It will be the driving factor to a slow start this year too. We go as far as the OL goes. Our biggest asset stands behind that OL. It is of the ultimate importance.

I disagree. We go as far as the defense goes. Injuries could change that calculus, but that is how I see it now.

And while I like the Left Tackle depth, the new safety and DE, this year's version of the team has a repeat of a question that was asked last year: How will the starting CB hold up?

Last year we were worried about scheme. This year, health.

Isn't this then a sign that we are a team on the "cusp of greatness"? Generally, once a team feels all of it's holes are filled the remaining question mark seems to be how healthy can they stay?

I have to side with RG, this team can go as far as it wants just as long as they stay healthy.

I believe when the health of the team is our major concern then the Packers as a team are in a great place.

[bobblehead]

I'm a little surprised by all the "concern" around here. This team is poised on the brink of greatness. Ted has installed his chosen players into each area of this team.

We need to accept the fact that if he thought we needed better players (especially starters) he'd have went out an acquired them.

There is no legitimate reason, especially at this point, for this team not to be successful. We should be competitive in every single game, and quite honestly should win the majority of them.

Every team has holes, after all this is the NFL. Our holes should not preclude us from a championship season!

I know this is sarcasm but /sarcasm off and I agree 100%. Will we win it all...can never guarantee that, but competitive all the way and win the majority....absolutely.

Relating to the Packers and their performance on the field, my post was ABSOLUTELY NOT SARCASM.

It is the year. I believe that.

If you look at every position on this team, the person filling the role was handpicked by Ted Thompson. Every position except Barnett and Clifton, has been "challenged" during Ted's regime. He either resigned the existing starter, or brought in his own person. The depth on this team is entirely Thompson's doing.

Now, watching those who for the past FOUR years touted Ted's GENIUS work ethic, his "can do no wrong" moves, his quiet "passion" for the GM position, start to back off their bold predictions, it is HILARIOUS.

Finley getting injured? REALLY? You've got to fucking kidding me. We have FOUR tight ends. We have a very strong WR corps. We've got (according to them) a TOP 5 NFL running back.

On the defense, we have Dom Capers, who is the second coming of Christ. We have two solid nose tackles, a stellar DE who has some injury problems, the returning ROY from the past 10 games of last season, two solid ILB's, and the DPOY at corner. We have the worlds best 3rd round draft pick, playing with a 4th year pro bowl starter, and a nickle back holding a corner spot until our other pro bowl corner returns.

So what are we talking about?

Finely getting hurt.
Hawk underachieving.
our nickle and dime corners.
and our fucking holder.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? :P

You have got to be fucking kidding me. The holder!

well then, I agree. Our depth is obvious by the performance of the second team in the preseason. I think TT has done a very good job assembling talent. Lsst year I stated that, although I like his method of building a team, if we didn't win 10 games I would be off the bandwagon. I think when it comes to a GM, a winning record and consistent contention is all that matters.

You arguing that he shoud have a better nickel in place is kinda silly. No team is perfect from 1-53, NONE. You name the team, I'll give you a weakness.

Things TT did this year better than last year....brought in Tausch and Cliffy despite their age and challenged anyone to knock them off their perch.

Drafted a good OL in the first round.

Traded up to get a safety because he obviously saw a player of great value at that point in a position of weakness.

Things he didn't do. Improve the nickel other than injury recovery. Improve the OLB other than Jones getting an offseason under his belt.

Its impossible to build an NFL team without a weakness....IMPOSSIBLE. Even before FA it wasn't realistic. Ron Wolf (who I assume you are ok with) struggled year after year to shore up the LT position wasting 2 number ones in the draft. This was in the heyday of FA. The second most important position to an offense and the might Wolf couldn't fix it. (likely TT's fault advising him).

I stand by your post. We will be consistently competitive and win more than we lose...likely 11 or more games. I will only be happy if we make the NFCC, but realistically I'll start with a win in the playoffs.

Rand thinks every team will AZ us, but I ask you....what team has Fitz, Breston and Deucett...oh, and warner. Not many. I won't even get into the 37 illegal picks set by Cardinal recievers in that game (that would be hypocritical for any packer fan from our superbowl win).

[Bossman641]

For the life of me I cannot determine whether RG is genuinely excited about this team's prospects or giddy at the thought that the team might fail to win a super bowl. I am leaning towards #2 though.

I don't understand how posters addressing those areas of the team they are worried about is an indication that TT failed in that area. Every single team in the league has weaknesses and trouble spots. The team that finds a way to win it all hides their weaknesses the most effectively, schemes to expose their opponents' weaknesses, and also benefits from a large amount of luck along the way.

A question for RG though. If I am wrong, and you are genuinely excited about this year's team, isn't that at least some acknowledgment that TT was right over the past few years when you were questioning his moves? I know he probably didn't adress those areas as quickly or effectively enough as you would have wished, but doesn't the overall body of work show that the needle is pointed in the right direction?

That's all I can ask from my GM.

[bobblehead]

There are no reasons it should not be successful. There are no reasons that we won't be playing a game, in Dallas in February.

Now RG....if we were in FYI I would accuse you of building a strawman HH would have been proud of.

Of course there are reasons we won't be playing in the big one....like reason #1, only one team from the NFC will be.

You are pulling a major "tank" move here and raising the bar. You have hammered TT for being incompetent for years, now that ARod is a stud and we won 11 games last season, and its likely we will have a very good year again, suddenly the "bar" is....if we don't win the super bowl TT sucks.

If we win the superbowl this season you will likely be saying we got lucky in covering some holes and TT is only successful if we win it back to back like other "greats" have.

Lets face it. TT has put together a very good team. My guess is that after this season our '09 and '10 wins combined will be top 3 over that span. That alone won't make me happy, but it will prove that TT is a pretty damn good GM.

[retailguy]

RG, what is your message?

TT is a failure if they don't win it all this year? Sorry, but that's very closed minded.

The message (I believe) is a disapproval of Thompson's player acquisition strategy. It has been applied (quite logically to the O line in years past) this year to find cause for concern at CB.

Essentially, RG has used several posts and unintentional sarcasm to declare that the lack of another starting/nickel CB is further indication of Thompson's lack of thoroughness, or perhaps, too much trust in his players or coaches.

Those who broach this topic and who have previously defended Thompson are being reminded of just who was right all along.

However, I think he truly finds concern about the holder to be not worthy of a post.

Umm. No. Not at all.

My message is directed SOLELY at this forum. I am saying nothing different than what was said to me for the past 3 years.

Everytime I raised a concern I was told either I was nuts, or, just wait a few years and it'd go away. Guess what? We're there.

I have no complaints with Ted and personnel selection, I've said that many times. My complaints rest with the rest of the GM job. I don't think he's a strong leader and I think some of his hiring decisions are questionable. His media personna is abysmal, and I really dislike him as an individual.

So, his team, his people, his strong suit (personnel). We should win. I believe that. And I'm not taking any excuses as to why we don't win. As I've said before, if 8 starters go down, like happened in '01? Ok, THEN we talk injuries. Today? No point to these discussions.

You got issues with this team? You're nuts. We're ready to win! 19-0. You heard it here first.

[RashanGary]

Sounds like someone is trying to set up a win win for himself. If the Packers have a great team this year, Thompson is a failure and RG was right all along because this one year he didn't win a SB.

Thompson has this team set up for many years of success. As long as the Packers have a SB competitor this year, he did his job.

Considering what he's taken over, where he's taken it and where it appears to be going. . . . Thompson has done a fantastic job.

Now, the next 5 years will tell whether he wins a SB or not.


RG knows this team is great and knows all of his bitching about the receivers way back when the TE's, the OLB's last year, the RB's when Green left. . . have jsut not come true. Now the nickle spot is the weakest link and in order to look like he knew it all along, he's passing a SB victory or I was right stance.

That's not how it works, man. Everyone can see through it. Everyone knows your track record.

[retailguy]

For the life of me I cannot determine whether RG is genuinely excited about this team's prospects or giddy at the thought that the team might fail to win a super bowl. I am leaning towards #2 though.

I don't understand how posters addressing those areas of the team they are worried about is an indication that TT failed in that area. Every single team in the league has weaknesses and trouble spots. The team that finds a way to win it all hides their weaknesses the most effectively, schemes to expose their opponents' weaknesses, and also benefits from a large amount of luck along the way.

A question for RG though. If I am wrong, and you are genuinely excited about this year's team, isn't that at least some acknowledgment that TT was right over the past few years when you were questioning his moves? I know he probably didn't adress those areas as quickly or effectively enough as you would have wished, but doesn't the overall body of work show that the needle is pointed in the right direction?

That's all I can ask from my GM.

I'd never be "giddy" that the packers would lose. Watching some of the kool aid drinkers here take a bath in their predictions over the past few years? If I could somehow accomplish that without the packers going 2-14, I'D LOVE IT. But that doesn't seem to be possible.

I did not enjoy Ted's path towards "building" this team. Not one day of it. I haven't criticized his personnel skills in a long long time, if ever. I'm critical of ignoring free agency, especially with the lower tier guys. Not much risk there, and might give competition.

I've HATED the lackidasical approach to the OL, absolutely DESPISED it. It has taken far too long to field a competitive squad there. There was no reason for it. I firmly believe that responsibility for the slow starts the past two seasons rest firmly with the OL.

I am excited about what this team should achieve. There is no reason for them not to be in Dallas. It's not a strawman. They are, as good, or better, than any team in the NFC.

If this team does not achieve, then, we have some fundamental flaws in either coaching, gameplan, or org structure. The players are there, and when they face others head to head, I expect them to win.

I find it very funny that folks here are "shocked" that there are "holes" in this team. There are holes in every team. There are comparatively fewer holes here than anywhere else you can name. AROD closes most of those holes. Honestly. We ought to be able to outscore almost any team in the league in any given week, PROVIDED, the OL is at least competitive.

Let the games begin.

[retailguy]

Sounds like someone is trying to set up a win win for himself. If the Packers have a great team this year, Thompson is a failure and RG was right all along because this one year he didn't win a SB.

Thompson has this team set up for many years of success. As long as the Packers have a SB competitor this year, he did his job.

Considering what he's taken over, where he's taken it and where it appears to be going. . . . Thompson has done a fantastic job.

Now, the next 5 years will tell whether he wins a SB or not.


RG knows this team is great and knows all of his bitching about the receivers way back when the TE's, the OLB's last year, the RB's when Green left. . . have jsut not come true. Now the nickle spot is the weakest link and in order to look like he knew it all along, he's passing a SB victory or I was right stance.

That's not how it works, man. Everyone can see through it. Everyone knows your track record.

Sniffing out conspiracy theories is not your strong suit. You should stick to sniffing glue and Ted's anus, because you're out to lunch on this one.

[sharpe1027]

The Packers appear to have a legitimate chance at winning the Superbowl. So do several other teams. Only one can win. If it is not the Packer this year, I'm not going to bitch and moan (too much) as long as they show me that they were good enough to have a legitimate shot. That's my decision and my standards. In the words of RG, if you don't like it "tough shit."

Go Pack!

Back to the thread topic:

I agree that pass rush from the OLBs and DL is going to make a world of difference for this team. If they can get that, getting pressure by blitzing becomes a luxury. Is it absolutely necessary, maybe not, but good QBs ripped apart the D last year. Pressure on the QB is the best pass defense.

[pbmax]

RG, what is your message?

TT is a failure if they don't win it all this year? Sorry, but that's very closed minded.

The message (I believe) is a disapproval of Thompson's player acquisition strategy. It has been applied (quite logically to the O line in years past) this year to find cause for concern at CB.

Essentially, RG has used several posts and unintentional sarcasm to declare that the lack of another starting/nickel CB is further indication of Thompson's lack of thoroughness, or perhaps, too much trust in his players or coaches.

Those who broach this topic and who have previously defended Thompson are being reminded of just who was right all along.

However, I think he truly finds concern about the holder to be not worthy of a post.

Umm. No. Not at all.

My message is directed SOLELY at this forum. I am saying nothing different than what was said to me for the past 3 years.

Everytime I raised a concern I was told either I was nuts, or, just wait a few years and it'd go away. Guess what? We're there.

I have no complaints with Ted and personnel selection, I've said that many times. My complaints rest with the rest of the GM job. I don't think he's a strong leader and I think some of his hiring decisions are questionable. His media personna is abysmal, and I really dislike him as an individual.

So, his team, his people, his strong suit (personnel). We should win. I believe that. And I'm not taking any excuses as to why we don't win. As I've said before, if 8 starters go down, like happened in '01? Ok, THEN we talk injuries. Today? No point to these discussions.

You got issues with this team? You're nuts. We're ready to win! 19-0. You heard it here first.

Funny, I must have just imagined that posted list of OLBs you thought Thompson failed to consider from a month or so ago. I am glad you have found peace with his approach.

Good to hear you are onboard. Congratulations!

But just remember. Even great teams can fail to achieve a Super Bowl win, just ask the 2007 Patriots. Or the 1997 Packers.

[falco]

But just remember. Even great teams can fail to achieve a Super Bowl win, just ask the 2007 Patriots. Or the 1997 Packers.

I think the Patriots loss in 07 was a sign of "fundamental flaws in either coaching, gameplan, or org structure."

[Bossman641]

For the life of me I cannot determine whether RG is genuinely excited about this team's prospects or giddy at the thought that the team might fail to win a super bowl. I am leaning towards #2 though.

I don't understand how posters addressing those areas of the team they are worried about is an indication that TT failed in that area. Every single team in the league has weaknesses and trouble spots. The team that finds a way to win it all hides their weaknesses the most effectively, schemes to expose their opponents' weaknesses, and also benefits from a large amount of luck along the way.

A question for RG though. If I am wrong, and you are genuinely excited about this year's team, isn't that at least some acknowledgment that TT was right over the past few years when you were questioning his moves? I know he probably didn't adress those areas as quickly or effectively enough as you would have wished, but doesn't the overall body of work show that the needle is pointed in the right direction?

That's all I can ask from my GM.

I find it very funny that folks here are "shocked" that there are "holes" in this team. There are holes in every team. There are comparatively fewer holes here than anywhere else you can name. AROD closes most of those holes. Honestly. We ought to be able to outscore almost any team in the league in any given week, PROVIDED, the OL is at least competitive.

Let the games begin.

This I can agree with

[Bossman641]

But just remember. Even great teams can fail to achieve a Super Bowl win, just ask the 2007 Patriots. Or the 1997 Packers.

I think the Patriots loss in 07 was a sign of "fundamental flaws in either coaching, gameplan, or org structure."

Nah, that was a sign of the football gods bringing some much-needed karma to the world.

[pbmax]

My complaints rest with the rest of the GM job. I don't think he's a strong leader and I think some of his hiring decisions are questionable. His media personna is abysmal, and I really dislike him as an individual.

Really, you dislike the individual? You are smarter than this. I have never thought of you as one of those deluded folks who believe the people they see on TV or hear on the radio are really a part of their lives. Like their neighbor or best friend. That they really can tell from the public's perspective that someone is a good person, well meaning or misunderstood, or plain evil.

Why can't you just dislike the approach? You aren't necessarily wrong if the team has a good season and I believe some of your criticism has merit. Why make it personal and an either-or proposition?