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**b bulldog** · 08-07-2006, 07:26 AM

Best of alltime is a bit much but he is definitely top 10.

**RashanGary** · 08-07-2006, 07:29 AM

I said could be argued bulldog. Many like Bradshaw, Salisbury, Madden ect recognize Favre's greatness. Favre had a rough year, but he's still gonna be the all time record holder in multiple passing categories and the all time wins leader in less years than Elway and Marino. Also he has a ring, a bunch of playoff births and another superbowl visit.

Where ever you put Marino, I think you put Favre a notch up with the ring.

**Joemailman** · 08-07-2006, 08:35 AM

Zimmerman should look at what John Unitas was at the end of his career if he thinks last years struggles will affect Favre's legacy. Favre had 3 straight MVP's. End of story.

**Scott Campbell** · 08-07-2006, 08:36 AM

I think Havel just partially plagiarized my thread.

**red** · 08-07-2006, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by Scott Campbell

I think Havel just partially plagiarized my thread.

i thought the same thing while reading his article

**RIPackerFan** · 08-07-2006, 08:38 AM

Since I am in Patriots country - I have a bunch of discussions with Brady fans concerning who is the better quarterback.

The way I look at it - you are considered one of the greatest if you have superior numbers in one of the following: Stats or Wins. If you have both, you are considered one of the all-time greats.

Brady has wins - the Superbowl wins by themselves will ensure him to the HOF. However, if he were to get injured tomorrow (and were unable to play ever again) would he be considered 10 yrs from now, one of the greats....probably not. He would be considered a good quarterback, but the "team" and coach would probably be thought of contributing to the wins as much as the QB.

Favre has wins and some stats. Because he has both, my belief is that he is considered one of the greats, however not the best yet. I do believe that if he was able to pull off either another league MVP OR a Superbowl appearance, along with beating a few of Marinos records, I doubt if the majority would not consider him the best of all-time.

The reason for the current doubters is that analysts are "what have you done for me lately". Favre had a bad season last year, thus they are down on him. This is the reason why Brady and the Patriots are still considered one of the favorites to win the SB.

I do believe he could have another 29 int season, and still get in first ballot. However, it would certainly "taint" his standing in the best of all time.

That's why I am hoping and planning on a big season from him. It would be a great way to shut up the Pats fans here.

**red** · 08-07-2006, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by RIPackerFan

Since I am in Patriots country - I have a bunch of discussions with Brady fans concerning who is the better quarterback.

The way I look at it - you are considered one of the greatest if you have superior numbers in one of the following: Stats or Wins. If you have both, you are considered one of the all-time greats.

Brady has wins - the Superbowl wins by themselves will ensure him to the HOF. However, if he were to get injured tomorrow (and were unable to play ever again) would he be considered 10 yrs from now, one of the greats....probably not. He would be considered a good quarterback, but the "team" and coach would probably be thought of contributing to the wins as much as the QB.

Favre has wins and some stats. Because he has both, my belief is that he is considered one of the greats, however not the best yet. I do believe that if he was able to pull off either another league MVP OR a Superbowl appearance, along with beating a few of Marinos records, I doubt if the majority would not consider him the best of all-time.

The reason for the current doubters is that analysts are "what have you done for me lately". Favre had a bad season last year, thus they are down on him. This is the reason why Brady and the Patriots are still considered one of the favorites to win the SB.

I do believe he could have another 29 int season, and still get in first ballot. However, it would certainly "taint" his standing in the best of all time.

That's why I am hoping and planning on a big season from him. It would be a great way to shut up the Pats fans here.

remember though, lets put this into pure packer terms that everyone can understand. because we all know other teams and their players don't matter

Star has very unimpressive career stats. and they look real bad when you put them next to Favres. but many packer fans still consider Bart to be the better QB. mostly IMO because he was the QB of a team that one a lot of championships

it seems to me that a lot of people think that games won, no matter if its because of the Qb or not, is a more important number then TD's or yards

look at terry bradshaw, how many times have we heard what a great qb he was. he threw just as many ints as he did TD's over his career (212 td's- 210ints). but his team won a lot of big games

**RashanGary** · 08-07-2006, 09:01 AM

Wins are important. The QB is not in a vacuum. Brady looked bad when he had pressure in the playoffs. It's when your defense keeps you in the game every game for 19 strait that you start to look invinsable.

Favre was the same way in 96-97. It's just the way team sports work. Just like in basketball. Brand was never considered a great PF untill he started winning. The reality is he was on a bad team for most of his career but has always been one of the NBA's most complete players.

Brady is good. Favre is better. That is my two cents.

**CaliforniaCheez** · 08-07-2006, 09:02 AM

Had Favre been injured and not played last year the "experts" would have said that Favre was the reason for the Packers success and that they would bounce back this year with him back at the helm.

Media spin is media spin.

Don't worry, over time greatness will be recognized. Havel will be vindicated.

**RIPackerFan** · 08-07-2006, 09:31 AM

I don't disagree that wins are the more important of the two. They are also the most prevalent (how many important QB records can be broken?)

However, I don't think that Bradshaw would be considered one of the greats (in my mind - top five). Probably in the top 15 - maybe top 10 (but at the end - 9 maybe 10). Why, most people realize he was on a great team, this does not belittle his accomplishments, just tempers them.

The same applies the other way. Marino has most of the QB records, but probably not considered one of the top 5 (top 10 yes). Why - he never won the big one.

I would say if Brady never goes to another Superbowl and doesn't do a lot statistically, I would be hard-pressed to give him a top 10 ranking (he would be a lot like Bradshaw).

Also, unless Manning wins it all, I don't see him breaking the top 10, even if breaks a bunch of records.

As far as your Star comment, I would have to believe that the majority of Packer fans (around 75%) would think Favre is better than Star. I don't think this is a slam to Star, just an understanding with the accolades (three MVPs - etc.) and stats (most consecutive starts - TDs, etc.) that Favre is a better all around player.

**MJZiggy** · 08-07-2006, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by RIPackerFan

As far as your Star comment, I would have to believe that the majority of Packer fans (around 75%) would think Favre is better than Star. I don't think this is a slam to Star, just an understanding with the accolades (three MVPs - etc.) and stats (most consecutive starts - TDs, etc.) that Favre is a better all around player.

Starr thinks Favre is better than he was. He has said so in numerous interviews. Did I once read that Favre thinks Starr was better than he is or was that part just the senility kicking in again?

**Deputy Nutz** · 08-07-2006, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by b bulldog

Best of alltime is a bit much but he is definitely top 10.

My god, you almost said something favorable on Favre's behalf, let me check, you did, thanks for contributing!

**GBRulz** · 08-07-2006, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by b bulldog

Best of alltime is a bit much but he is definitely top 10.

mad, I think someone hacked into bulldog's account

**ahaha** · 08-07-2006, 12:54 PM

Havel may be a Favre homer, but he hit the nail on the head with this one. One can understand trying to play the devil's advocate, like Dr. Z, but his comments on Favre were so completely ridiculous you have to wonder how senile he's become. Brett Favre could play another three terrible seasons, and still be a first ballot HOF. Stats- he's on the verge of breaking all the major passing records! Wins - Superbowl victory, another appearence, and too many play-off appearences. And, he's only 9 regular season wins away from the all-time record held by Elway. Accolalades - THREE MVP'S, and numerous pro-bowls. And what about his toughness? He has almost DOUBLED the previous record for consecutive starts for a quarterback. Hell, if he makes it through this season, it'll be the third highest streak for any position. And most importantly, the media loves him. Of course there are always be a few people out there who love to cut down a player of Favre's stature, but make no mistake, the majority of the media loves Favre. He is the epitomy of what a football player should be.
Dr Z's only argument for the chance that Brett wouldn't make it on his first try, is that his play has deteriorated at the end of his career. WHAT?! I can't believe a guy that has covered football as long as he has could say that! How many HOF players kicked ass at the end? Jim Brown, and John Elway.....and that's about it.
And, what HOF players has Brett ever had around him? White, and possibly Butler. None on offense(maybe Sharpe if he played longer).
Yes, controversy is good for stiring conversation and thought, but Dr Z. should be embarresed for making such a ridiculous argument.

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