Coach of the Year

[Fritz]

Ah, you know the argument. The game should never have been that close, had he been a good coach they'd have blown out the Lions the first time, etc.

I'm not saying it's a good argument. In fact, I think it's lousy. I'm with you. But logic and reason are not the ruling lights of many, many fans.

[pbmax]

I keep writing posts that become screeds against other lines of thought. So I am just going to start to repeat myself.

McCarthy is a very good coach. Good enough to win a championship. He should remain in this position for a long time. Time will tell if the opportunity to deliver a Championship presents itself.

[vince]

Ah, you know the argument. The game should never have been that close, had he been a good coach they'd have blown out the Lions the first time, etc.

I'm not saying it's a good argument. In fact, I think it's lousy. I'm with you. But logic and reason are not the ruling lights of many, many fans.

I have no misgivings about changing his or anyone else's mind for that very reason, but if mmmdk is going to make claims and declare himself "always right," I'm hoping he'll make those claims stand up to scrutiny.

He may well be right in the end. Without taking anything else into account, the odds are in the detractors' favor. It's damn tough to win a Super Bowl. There obviously have been a hell of alot more NFL coaches (even good ones) that haven't won a Super Bowl than have. Even with great leadership and talent on the field, a lot has to come together at the same time.

[retailguy]

Not that easy, Vince. I wish it were. What'll happen is that the anti-MMers will begin to argue that certain wins were despite MM and thus were poorly coached.

And there would be some truth to those arguments too. There are some games where they appear to have been coached inadequately , and some where they weren't.

There is only one reason that this argument trudges on, some give McCarthy zero credit for the team, and conversely, some give him way too much credit. Until BOTH sides compromise, we are looking at (make your pick), argument Favre #2, or argument Thompson #2.

Vince, you're just as guilty as mmmdk... just on opposite sides of the fence.

[vince]

Guilty of wanting to debate the virtues and liabilities of the Packer Head Coach on a Packer forum rather than spewing meaningless platitudes about being satisfied with being "good enough" or calling those addressing the injury situation whining "choir boys" while ignoring facts in conflict with said position and declaring oneself "always right?" Hang me now.

I understand the interest in keeping disagreements nonpersonal, but that doesn't mean we have to shy away from differences of opinion.

[retailguy]

Guilty of wanting to debate the virtues and liabilities of the Packer Head Coach on a Packer forum rather than spewing meaningless platitudes about being satisfied with being "good enough" or calling those addressing the injury situation whining "choir boys" while ignoring facts in conflict with said position and declaring oneself "always right?" Hang me now.

I understand the interest in keeping disagreements nonpersonal, but that doesn't mean we have to shy away from differences of opinion.

Happy to hang you, I'm busy today, can we meet Tuesday? I'll bring the rope.

Seriously, I don't think the discussions about McCarthy have been a debate, they've almost all been personal on both sides of the aisle and no new facts or theories are emerging. What is now being done is that past statements are brought up, out of context frequently, and then "debunked".

IMO, the debate is long over, but we'll see where you take it.

[vince]

I'm just trying to get the "down with McCarthy" crowd to offer something - anything - other than feelings, psycho-babble, and personal attacks.

[retailguy]

I'm just trying to get the "down with McCarthy" crowd to offer something - anything - other than feelings, psycho-babble, and personal attacks.

I think there's been some of that, but some of their perspective is pretty substantive. You say it's all psycho babble, I say it isn't. Why are you right and I'm not?

Just because you disagree doesn't make it all non substantive.

I also happen to think that some of your defenses of McCarthy and some of your previous defenses of Thompson were psycho babble too, but you seem pretty convinced by them so I suspect you wouldn't agree.

[gbgary]

like him as a coach...hate him as a OC and playcaller.

[get louder at lambeau]

I'm a supporter of MM, and think he's doing a good job. I don't think he should be coach of the year this year though. Maybe next year.

[vince]

like him as a coach...hate him as a OC and playcaller.

I find it hard to hate elite offensive production in both yards and points year after year.

[vince]

I think there's been some of that, but some of their perspective is pretty substantive. You say it's all psycho babble, I say it isn't. Why are you right and I'm not?

Just because you disagree doesn't make it all non substantive.

I also happen to think that some of your defenses of McCarthy and some of your previous defenses of Thompson were psycho babble too, but you seem pretty convinced by them so I suspect you wouldn't agree.

Which ones?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I keep writing posts that become screeds against other lines of thought. So I am just going to start to repeat myself.

McCarthy is a very good coach. Good enough to win a championship. He should remain in this position for a long time. Time will tell if the opportunity to deliver a Championship presents itself.

Agree 100%

[Bretsky]

Lovie Smith warrants some consideration as well

[Fritz]

I don't know about coach of the year...but consider that now Zombo AND Jenkins AND Hall are out for what is now the most important game of the season...while the Bears will be missing one guy, their number three receiver. And consider that not only do the Packers lead the league in injured reserve numbers, Ryan Grant (this is per the JSO) has missed more games himself than all the Bears' preferred starters combined.

After all that, consider that the Packers are 9 - 6 and can get into the playoffs if MM can patch the team together and get a win tomorrow.

I'd say that's a good coaching job, period.