IF the Packers win it all should they give a ring to Al Harris ?

[bobblehead]

Neon Deion said the exact same thing after the Falcons game on NFLN he was effusive in his praise, that Al's presence had shaped the entire group not only Tramon, but especially Woodson by reviving competition within the group and setting an example for practice and preparation. Who knows he may be right, could know something we don't know.

I don't want to get in the habit of agreeing with Deion, but I agree 100%. When you are on a team that has a guy like Al working his ass off, playing the part of the warrior, you have to be shameless to not pick it up yourself. Chuck isn't shameless. Nobody who cuts it in the NFL for long is shameless. Harris had a positive impact on the organization. Give him a lifetime achievement ring.

[Smidgeon]

I'm aware of that; I made no mention of the NFL HOF and I doubt either player is a candidate anyway. Players frequently, however, return to the place they enjoyed playing the most, receive a contract for a day and lodge their retirement papers ceremoniously, thus retiring as a "insert your team here".

Okay. Misread your previous post. Apologies.

[Patler]

I already gave you my reasoning on the post quoted above so save the "I know you are but what I am" tactics. It is beneath you. That wasnt fucking good enough for you because you dont FEEL the same. Well tough shit, but dont try to shut me down cuz you dont agree. In fact why the fuck dont you tell us why he SHOULDN'T get one??

(SIGH) Apparently you have not read what I have written, and now you ask me to prove a negative. There doesn't have to a reason for not giving him a ring, there has to be a reason TO give him a ring. The Packers won't determine who doesn't get a ring, they will determine who met criteria to entitle them to a ring. But, relevant factors are:

1. Harris never was on the 53 man roster.
2. Harris never was on IR.

In short, he never had any status on the 2010 team. The PUP list is a limbo status which a player can qualify for based on timing. If Harris had not been PUP eligible, he likely would have been released just like Will Blackmon. When his status in limbo expired, he was released. In short, I do not think there is a reason that would obligate the Packers to give him a ring, and for that reason I have disputed the reasons that people have given.

I really do not care if they give him a ring or not; and I think you do have the only valid reason for giving him a ring, which I attempted to acknowledge in a flippant sort of way so it wouldn't go to you head. Instead it apparently went right over your head!

If I were GM, I don't know for sure how I would decide; but I would look to previous Packer championship years for precedent, and I might talk to other GMs to see if they had similar situations. None of us knows what influence positive, negative or ambivalent that Harris had on the team this year. Fortunately, TT does know; and I will be satisfied with whatever decision he makes if the Packers win.

[pbmax]

(SIGH) Apparently you have not read what I have written, and now you ask me to prove a negative. There doesn't have to a reason for not giving him a ring, there has to be a reason TO give him a ring. The Packers won't determine who doesn't get a ring, they will determine who met criteria to entitle them to a ring. But, relevant factors are:

1. Harris never was on the 53 man roster.
2. Harris never was on IR.

In short, he never had any status on the 2010 team. The PUP list is a limbo status which a player can qualify for based on timing. If Harris had not been PUP eligible, he likely would have been released just like Will Blackmon. When his status in limbo expired, he was released. In short, I do not think there is a reason that would obligate the Packers to give him a ring, and for that reason I have disputed the reasons that people have given.

I really do not care if they give him a ring or not; and I think you do have the only valid reason for giving him a ring, which I attempted to acknowledge in a flippant sort of way so it wouldn't go to you head. Instead it apparently went right over your head!

If I were GM, I don't know for sure how I would decide; but I would look to previous Packer championship years for precedent, and I might talk to other GMs to see if they had similar situations. None of us knows what influence positive, negative or ambivalent that Harris had on the team this year. Fortunately, TT does know; and I will be satisfied with whatever decision he makes if the Packers win.

Would practice squad players be given a ring? What about practice squad players who went elsewhere to play? Practice squad members ties to the team are far more nebulous and arbitrary than players on PUP with a fully vested veteran contract.

Harris was off PUP for close to 3 weeks and practiced with the team. PUP is no more limbo than IR, except the term is different.

If the Practice Squad gets a ring, Harris should be offered one. Especially true if PS players who left or were waived get one.

[Patler]

Would practice squad players be given a ring? What about practice squad players who went elsewhere to play? Practice squad members ties to the team are far more nebulous and arbitrary than players on PUP with a fully vested veteran contract.

Harris was off PUP for close to 3 weeks and practiced with the team. PUP is no more limbo than IR, except the term is different.

If the Practice Squad gets a ring, Harris should be offered one. Especially true if PS players who left or were waived get one.

I asked that question early on, about PS players who came and went during the season. But PS players do work at helping prepare the team. They practice with the team. PUP players do not. The time after PUP, of which Harris had the maximum allowed 3 weeks, is an extended tryout more akin to TC than anything else. He was run through the paces to see what he could do. I doubt he was running scout team plays helping to prepare the 53 man roster, and if he did, I doubt it was much.

I doubt all PS players will get a ring, especially ones who were in GB only a few weeks. The Saints didn't even give a ring to one of their IR guys who was a veteran. Dan Campbell went on IR and left town shortly thereafter. It was his first year with the Saints. The Saints did not give him a ring.

That raises questions about two players on the Packers IR list. Bell and Levine. Bell went on IR early in training camp. Levine was put on IR at the final cutdown. Should they get rings? Bell was on the roster for a couple games last year, but Levine was an undrafted free agent this year. Should either of them get a ring if the Packers win? I don't know if either of them has stayed in town or not. Should that matter, especially if they have a home and family elsewhere?

[Pugger]

Interesting article on how Saints handled it last year. http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf...ral_man_7.html
One thing I noted is that the team apparently can give out as many rings as it wants. The league pays for the first 150.

I wish the team could give rings to all of us shareholders!!

[Pugger]

i agree with Tarlam.. don't players do this alot?.. didn't Jerry Rice sign a one day deal with the niners?... it seems vaguely familiar

I think Marco Rivera signed a one day deal too a couple of years ago.

[Pugger]

But seriously, if a player is not on the active roster, IR or PS they shouldn't get a ring. I like Al too but he isn't a Packer now.

[pbmax]

I asked that question early on, about PS players who came and went during the season. But PS players do work at helping prepare the team. They practice with the team. PUP players do not. The time after PUP, of which Harris had the maximum allowed 3 weeks, is an extended tryout more akin to TC than anything else. He was run through the paces to see what he could do. I doubt he was running scout team plays helping to prepare the 53 man roster, and if he did, I doubt it was much.

While I don't think "because he is Al Harris" is any categorical basis to award a ring, I do think his situation (injury and PUP) and history overcome the lack of participation in scout team snaps. And I am not sure a first year with the team player like the Saints' Campbell compares with Harris. I guess the argument comes down to his history with the team, an active contract with the team during the season and time spent practicing with the team. I find that compelling.

[Fritz]

I feel like this is becoming as dramatic as an engagement ring proposal. Will they give Al a ring? Will he accept it if they do?

I'm so nervous!

[pbmax]

I feel like this is becoming as dramatic as an engagement ring proposal. Will they give Al a ring? Will he accept it if they do?

I'm so nervous!

This thread will be the new Favre thread. Debated throughout the ages. Just wait til Al plays for the Vikings and has a shot at another ring while on PUP. Pandemonium.

[bobblehead]

But seriously, if a player is not on the active roster, IR or PS they shouldn't get a ring. I like Al too but he isn't a Packer now.

But seriously, he was around the team for more than half the season. Practiced with the team for 3 weeks. Spent more time in GB doing rehab than Nick Barnett. Helped us prepare for at least the 3 games he participated in practice for. Was more a part of this team than the guys on the PS right now.

While I am at it...what is the HUGE differentiation between spending 6 weeks on PuP and 3 more practicing with an exemption and being on IR rehabbing in Florida since week 1? I personally see no diff between PuP and IR other than a technicality that allows a player to come back that season if he isn't able to start the season. PuP is a form of IR.

[Smidgeon]

If the Packers had IR'd him instead of releasing him after PUP, this would be a non-issue. But that wouldn't have been fair to Al since TT knew that he didn't have a spot on the team anymore due to the play of Williams and Shields.

[Patler]

While I am at it...what is the HUGE differentiation between spending 6 weeks on PuP and 3 more practicing with an exemption and being on IR rehabbing in Florida since week 1? I personally see no diff between PuP and IR other than a technicality that allows a player to come back that season if he isn't able to start the season. PuP is a form of IR.

Most (not all) players on IR were on the 53 man active roster at some point in the season. They had "made the team".

You could also say that PUP is no more than a delayed or extended training camp, and training camp players who are released generally are not considered for rings.

[bobblehead]

Most (not all) players on IR were on the 53 man active roster at some point in the season. They had "made the team".

You could also say that PUP is no more than a delayed or extended training camp, and training camp players who are released generally are not considered for rings.

you could say that, but you would be wrong. PuP is a temporary injured list. If it was for non injured players it would be called the extended training camp list and Breno Giacomini would have been on it....but its for players who are injured early/prior to training camp. Not one poster would argue that if fully healthy Al Harris would have made the team.