For me to continue my support of Thompson........

[sharpe1027]

Well, kudos to you for recognizing that.

Didn't you get the memo? It's 'Fiber One to you' now. This is a health conscious, aging nation that needs it's fiber.

A fear that this memo never reached Wisconsin? Despite the aging factor, we are talking brat eating, beer drinking, Packer fans here.

[pbmax]

Wolf hired Holmgren, who was one year (maybe two) past being the hottest coordinator on the market (he turned someone down to return to SanFran). He had enough of a name and contacts to lure very bright O coaches and get a good DC in Rhodes.

McCarthy was nowhere near as hot, in fact his best year in buzz was probably the year after he took Aaron Brooks to the playoffs in 2000 as his OC. He had a couple of interesting interviews (that made the papers anyway) for DC before deciding on Bob Sanders. He didn't exactly have his pick from among Hall of Fame candidates.

I think he gets the job done on the offensive side. But did Thompson miscalculate in hiring a relative unknown who still needed to find a DC when he got hired? You can argue it cost us several opportunities.

Good post, what sort of opportunites are you getting at here?

If Sanders was doomed by scheme and lack of imagination/variation, then one could assume another, more skilled coordinator would have fielded a better defense. So perhaps the Giants don't get to 20 points, or we aren't 8-8 in '06.

The missed opportunities are what the team might have done with someone other than McCarthy and Sanders in Years 1-3. Could Thompson have hired someone better?

My answer is probably not for the offense. You could argue Sean Payton, but he has had similar trouble in New Orleans with his defense.

But in choosing McCarthy (or Payton, who had the Parcells coaching tree at his back) you ran the risk that as new coaches, their success might be dependent on attracting the right guy for defense. Holmgren already had that guy in his back pocket, and knew another when Rhodes bailed (Shurmur).

Payton might have had the Parcells phone book at his fingertips and he still dialed the wrong number. So McCarthy's experience is not unique. The question we must ask ourselves is if Thompson should have insisted on more experience in the D coordinator hire? Could the GM have insisted on better and still had a good working relationship with his coach?

[Deputy Nutz]

1 trip to the playoffs in 4 years.

They missed the playoffs three times under Wolf, and I don't believe they ever missed the playoffs under Sherman.

1992 miss, 1999 miss, 2000 miss.

Thompson
2005 miss, 2006 miss, 2008 miss.

What are you trying to say?

For all the fame and praise that Thompson gets, especially in the preseason he certainly hasn't had the record to back all of it up.

[sharpe1027]

For all the fame and praise that Thompson gets, especially in the preseason he certainly hasn't had the record to back all of it up.

He got all the praise after a 13-3 season and a trip to the NFC championship game. Before that and since, there have been plenty of detractors.

What is so wrong about looking at the specifics of what the Packers have been doing? I think it is a little more intersting than just adding up several years of W/L and calling it a day. Nearly all "supporters" agree that if they do not bounce back from last year, he should be on the hot seat.

Preaseason is all we have to go on, so people make projections based off of that. Take it for what it is worth, most of us understand the limitations of such projections.

[rbaloha1]

Fixing Sherman's mess takes time. Secondly, TT is responsible for assembling the talent not coaching it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Keep telling yourself that.

Are you blaming Sherman for 2008?

[mraynrand]

Fixing Sherman's mess takes time. Secondly, TT is responsible for assembling the talent not coaching it.

Is this a joke? Sherman is long gone. This is Thompson's 5th year and this squad is entirely Thompson's. Did you give Tom Braatz credit for the 1996 Packers?

[bobblehead]

Nutz, you are right, the toll is in the w/l record and while a GM gets the rebuilding to excuse his first 2 years (envelope one, blame previous regime), and he gets injuries and BF distraction to blame for last years dropoff he will have no viable excuse this season.

Either the packers win 10-12 games this season or its time to look in another direction. I've been a hard nosed TT supporter, and the 3 year progression to the NFC championship game was right on. You want to dismiss all that because the team faultered last season amidst one of the bigger controversies of my NFL lifetime and some big injuries to an unimaginative Defense.

Me? I'm willing to admit he MIGHT not be the guy, but I'm also going to wait out this season to find out, otherwise I might be pulling a partial next year and saying he suddenly showed great progress this year.

Remember, at the end of this season one of us is going to be right about TT and one is going to be wrong. But only one of us is painting himself into a corner by insisting TT sucks because he had 2 rebuilding seasons and if you toss out season number one where BF decided 23 picks wasn't quite enough, and we started the rebuilding process, they are an above .500 team. Yes, over the last 3 seasons we are OVER .500!! I think it is VERY fair to discount the first season under shermy. MM had the best record EVER in the NFL over his first 25 games as a head coach. We finished his first season strong. We made the NFC championship in his second. Last year we faltered amid a lot of controversy. Yea, I think this MM TT combo deserves another year before we write them off. Since MM has been the coach instead of the lame duck guy who TT was kinda stuck with at first we are 27-21. You can use the 4-12 year under shermy and while rebuilding having a QB that tossed 26? picks to hold against TT if you want, but the intellectual dishonesty (or lack of intellect) in that argument is...welll....

All that being said, we have to win this year or else its fair to say he isn't leading us in the right direction. But to be blasting him atm isn't quite fair. (or smart)

[mraynrand]

Either the packers win 10-12 games this season or its time to look in another direction.

There's not a chance in hell the Packers move on after this season unless there is a flat out 3-4 win collapse with locker room dissention, etc.

[KYPack]

Either the packers win 10-12 games this season or its time to look in another direction.

There's not a chance in hell the Packers move on after this season unless there is a flat out 3-4 win collapse with locker room dissention, etc.

Wouldn't another 6-10 punch MM's ticket?

I'd say he has to be .500 with a strong showing to keep his gig.

I don't think Murphy would blow them both up with a 6-10, but I think MM would go if he did produce those kind of results.

[bobblehead]

Either the packers win 10-12 games this season or its time to look in another direction.

There's not a chance in hell the Packers move on after this season unless there is a flat out 3-4 win collapse with locker room dissention, etc.

I don't THINK they would move on, but you never know. And I said its time, I didn't say it would happen. My guess is that they would get thru the offseason and into the next season, but if 2010 started out slowly they would likely be gone before they could turn it around.

[pbmax]

Ted and Mike are getting at least one more year together after this. McCarthy has a new defensive coordinator and Thompson needs to find the players. Barring a Lions-esque collapse, we do this again next year. And given Capers track record, I don't think anyone is eager to promote from within.

[Deputy Nutz]

I want to know how I am the only one painting myself in a corner? Why are Ted Thompson supporters not painting themselves in a corner as well?

So far no one cares to remember the mistakes TT has made, they just come up with excuses why he wasn't been a consistent winner, players, former GM, rebuilding, bla, bla, bla.

The Packers from 1992 to 2004 won more games than I believe any other franchise in the NFL. For the past 4 years, they are on the wrong side of .500. Sure I understand it was difficult to come up for air after Sherman's "Go for Broke strategy." Which at the time a good number of fans supported because they wanted to see Favre make it to another Super Bowl before his retirement.

I am sorry, but I need a little bit more than 3 really decent preseason games to cash my ticket to the Super Bowl. I don't want Thompson to be fired, That would mean another horrible season, what I want is for him to at least prove to the fans that he is the right man for the job, just not some mediocre front office lacky.

The pre season has this team on the right track. McCarthy is no longer a wet behind the ears head coach, he is a damn fine offensive mind, it has been his stratedgy and game management so far that has let him down, with this being his 4th year, hopefully he has worked some of those kinks out.

The switch to the 3-4 has no barring on whether or not Thompson or McCarthy keep their jobs. If this defense fails without any hope, then it is personel, not the scheme.

[Lurker64]

I think it's ridiculous to set thresholds of success or failure that indicate the return or not of coaches, GMs, etc. There are always going to be extenuating circumstances that indicate indicate how much credit/blame that the GM or coach should receive that are only apparent after the fact.

It's widely reported that Vikings coach Brad Childress needs to win a playoff game this year in order to keep his job, but if Adrian Peterson suffers a compound fracture of his right femur, and Chester Taylor shatters his radius and ulna in his right arm in the first game, then nobody is going to fault Childress if his squad goes, say, 8-8.

If everything breaks right for our squad this year there's no reason they can't do very well. But invariably, everything doesn't break right for any cause and it's unreasonable to blame coaches or GMs for those things that go wrong that are not their fault. Bill Belichick didn't get or deserve a lot of heat last year after Brady went down for not having a higher quality backup, did he?

[Deputy Nutz]

Very true Lurker, again I point to the 1996 Packers. They lost both of their starting wide receivers, but had one or two decent veterans in place, and Wolf also went after and signed Rison mid season. That team also had tremendous depth on it's roster as well.

Injuries happen, sometimes things just don't break the right way and a team loses a whole season because of it. I believe it was the 2002 Packers, that were the best team in the NFC, but lost to the average Jets to lose home field advangtage and limped into the playoffs against the Falcons.