For me to continue my support of Thompson........

[Cheesehead Craig]

A big part of what's involved with the hiring/firing of GMs and coaches is how they perform to expectations, IMO. With MM and TT there has been moderate expectations as the roster needed an overhaul and that takes time. So they are given a longer leash because of it.

The Childress example is one that shows this expectations argument. He's got a division title while improving the W/L each season, but he's on the hot seat because of the RB and defense he has, he should have been going deep into the playoffs the past 2 seasons. He could go 11-5 this year and win the division, but if they fall in the playoffs short of the NFC Championship game it's still doubtful if he comes back. So it's not all about the record.

[Rastak]

A big part of what's involved with the hiring/firing of GMs and coaches is how they perform to expectations, IMO. With MM and TT there has been moderate expectations as the roster needed an overhaul and that takes time. So they are given a longer leash because of it.

The Childress example is one that shows this expectations argument. He's got a division title while improving the W/L each season, but he's on the hot seat because of the RB and defense he has, he should have been going deep into the playoffs the past 2 seasons. He could go 11-5 this year and win the division, but if they fall in the playoffs short of the NFC Championship game it's still doubtful if he comes back. So it's not all about the record.

Ummm, when you have what they did at QB two years ago they shouldn't have made the playoffs and they didn't. Last year Frerotte played a bit better and they did make the playoffs. If Favre/Rosenfels don't play well enough then no playoffs for them. I agree he's on the hot seat but it's because next year is the last year of his contract and alot of pieces have been added to the team so ownership rightfully expects a good season.

[pbmax]

Very true Lurker, again I point to the 1996 Packers. They lost both of their starting wide receivers, but had one or two decent veterans in place, and Wolf also went after and signed Rison mid season. That team also had tremendous depth on it's roster as well.

Injuries happen, sometimes things just don't break the right way and a team loses a whole season because of it. I believe it was the 2002 Packers, that were the best team in the NFC, but lost to the average Jets to lose home field advangtage and limped into the playoffs against the Falcons.

Saving your team from injuries depends a lot on who and where your team suffers the loss. Some positions do not lend themselves to in season fixes. Compared to finding extra defensive lineman, a blind squirrel could find NFL caliber WRs off the waiver wire. Especially when Rison gets cut mid-season.

And the roster cutdowns do not contain the same talent as teams have finally mastered the cap.

But your overall point is sound. Thompson has not gotten enough results out of his moves over four years yet. But the measuring stick can't be just the playoffs this year. This team needs to see his players become better, and the team to take a definite step forward. Whether that is 9-7 or 12-4 depends alot on factors outside the team.

[Scott Campbell]

Thompson has only disappointed me one time - 2008. And that was an injury riddled cluster. I approve of the vast majority of his methods, though I'd probably attempt to dabble in FA more than he does. I guess I'll support him right up to the point where I don't anymore.

[mraynrand]

Either the packers win 10-12 games this season or its time to look in another direction.

There's not a chance in hell the Packers move on after this season unless there is a flat out 3-4 win collapse with locker room dissention, etc.

Wouldn't another 6-10 punch MM's ticket?

I'd say he has to be .500 with a strong showing to keep his gig.

I don't think Murphy would blow them both up with a 6-10, but I think MM would go if he did produce those kind of results.

6-6? Doubtful. I can't see anyone moving after this year without a collapse. TT let Stubby hit the reset button with the defense. One year isn't a fair test. Stubby has two years to hit it big (NFCC game or better).

[Deputy Nutz]

Very true Lurker, again I point to the 1996 Packers. They lost both of their starting wide receivers, but had one or two decent veterans in place, and Wolf also went after and signed Rison mid season. That team also had tremendous depth on it's roster as well.

Injuries happen, sometimes things just don't break the right way and a team loses a whole season because of it. I believe it was the 2002 Packers, that were the best team in the NFC, but lost to the average Jets to lose home field advangtage and limped into the playoffs against the Falcons.

Saving your team from injuries depends a lot on who and where your team suffers the loss. Some positions do not lend themselves to in season fixes. Compared to finding extra defensive lineman, a blind squirrel could find NFL caliber WRs off the waiver wire. Especially when Rison gets cut mid-season.

And the roster cutdowns do not contain the same talent as teams have finally mastered the cap.

But your overall point is sound. Thompson has not gotten enough results out of his moves over four years yet. But the measuring stick can't be just the playoffs this year. This team needs to see his players become better, and the team to take a definite step forward. Whether that is 9-7 or 12-4 depends alot on factors outside the team.

Thompson refuses to infuse this team with veteran back ups to possibly protect this team from injury. I agree if a plague hits, no GM is going to save his team but you cannot consistently be the youngest team in the league and expect to have back ups that can step up and contribute in a positive fashion. Thompson keeps trading younger players for players even younger. This organization has little stability at the bottom of it's roster.

They have no veteran depth at QB, RB, TE, OL, DL, DB, and at wide out the team has talent, but after the two starters you have a 3rd year, a second year, and a first year player.

So everyone loves the make up on this team, I tend to agree, especially if the team has the luck like they did in 2007, minimal injuries and also the fact that Thompson was lucky, but talented enough to find a running back in Grant because before that he compiled nothing but crap at the position.

Eventually Thompson is going to have to pray for a completely healthy team, or stock some of these positions with some experience.

Brandon Underwood? This team isn't that far away from him seeing the field on a regular basis.

[Lurker64]

Eventually Thompson is going to have to pray for a completely healthy team, or stock some of these positions with some experience.

Wouldn't the eventuality be that eventually the young guys who are currently unproven eventually grow into experienced veterans, and thus the depth and resiliance of the roster is exceptional? I mean, three years ago nobody envisioned Colledge being our best offensive lineman by a fair margin. Two or three years from now, this will be an exceptionally experienced and young roster, regardless of who is the GM at that point.

[retailguy]

Eventually Thompson is going to have to pray for a completely healthy team, or stock some of these positions with some experience.

Wouldn't the eventuality be that eventually the young guys who are currently unproven eventually grow into experienced veterans, and thus the depth and resiliance of the roster is exceptional? I mean, three years ago nobody envisioned Colledge being our best offensive lineman by a fair margin. Two or three years from now, this will be an exceptionally experienced and young roster, regardless of who is the GM at that point.

Truthfully, isn't that what was said two or three years ago? It hasn't happened yet.

This year, just off the top of my head, we lost Tauscher, Ruvell Martin, and Colin Cole. They were replaced by much younger players with much less experience so we continue to stay young.

I'm not arguing that this "shouldn't have happened", but when you keep doing that it prevents you from reaching your "exceptionally experienced" part. Again, for the 5th year in a row, we have a bottom part of the roster that has very little game experience, which is fine, until you have a bunch of injuries. If you're willing to accept that possibility, then all is well and we keep developing these guys.

I do not see how that changes going forward. I envision the packers always being one of the youngest, if not the youngest teams in the league, perpetually.

[pbmax]

They have no veteran depth at QB, RB, TE, OL, DL, DB, and at wide out the team has talent, but after the two starters you have a 3rd year, a second year, and a first year player.

So everyone loves the make up on this team, I tend to agree, especially if the team has the luck like they did in 2007, minimal injuries and also the fact that Thompson was lucky, but talented enough to find a running back in Grant because before that he compiled nothing but crap at the position.

Eventually Thompson is going to have to pray for a completely healthy team, or stock some of these positions with some experience.

Brandon Underwood? This team isn't that far away from him seeing the field on a regular basis.

I think the youth of the team probably guards against some injuries and overall you will lose less games (to injury) than with comparable veterans in the same spots.

But I think you may overestimate the availability of veterans of any quality to be available for backup duty. AJ Feely is a veteran backup QB who has proven he is unreliable as a starter. Do you want someone like him over Flynn or Brohm? Is a player proven to be unable to start really an advantage? What advantage is experience if you are below mediocre?

Veterans who can play are looking to start and get paid. Veterans who are longtime backups probably stink, and make teams only because they are either cheap or special teams wizards (Tracy White). Talent is more of a factor in winning than experience when the experience is in a body that struggles to be competent.

[Tony Oday]

I would rather have the young talent that has grown up Packer then some aging vet making NFL minimum and being a "safe" back up...they are back ups for a reason.

That being said a journeyman QB with some game experience if AR gets a ding and he needs to come out a series or two. RB, I always have said unless they are elite talent and even then it is all about the O line, bad O line bad running game unless you are Sanders! WR, this offense you don't have to be elite to play, Jennings is a stud and DD "has" been ageless thus far, Jones and Nelson are VERY nice back ups and could start if one goes down. TE Finley and Lee...looks good. FB well we have young and starting experience there. O line...I suck at judging O line I look at them as a success when we gain 4 YPC and do not allow a lot of preasure, other than that I listen to you guys!

D side. D line...Raji will get healthy and he is more than likely out because he is dinged up and really doesn't have the experience to warrant him playing hurt this early, Pickett EATS blockers....and everything else Jenkins, STAY HEALTHY MAN! Jolly is awesome really like this kid. LBs...we have such a mix of young talent and game experience here I do not need to even say it, most here think it is an average group and will have fun eating crow this year...I am just saying DBs...two STUDS in Woodson and Harris, Williams is a nice back up that could start, behind that it is like EVERY OTHER TEAM young unrealized talent...Saftey...yeah the weak link with out one Pro Bowler and some "guys" on the other side...

I like the depth of the team and the experience we have is wrapped in YOUNG bodies, not aging vets. I would like a guy like Garcia to back up Rogers but only if he can check his ego that he is not a starter anymore.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Keep telling yourself that.

Are you blaming Sherman for 2008?

Abso-fucking-lutely. I also blame Sherman for the maimed economy and global warming.

[mngolf19]

A big part of what's involved with the hiring/firing of GMs and coaches is how they perform to expectations, IMO. With MM and TT there has been moderate expectations as the roster needed an overhaul and that takes time. So they are given a longer leash because of it.

The Childress example is one that shows this expectations argument. He's got a division title while improving the W/L each season, but he's on the hot seat because of the RB and defense he has, he should have been going deep into the playoffs the past 2 seasons. He could go 11-5 this year and win the division, but if they fall in the playoffs short of the NFC Championship game it's still doubtful if he comes back. So it's not all about the record.

Ummm, when you have what they did at QB two years ago they shouldn't have made the playoffs and they didn't. Last year Frerotte played a bit better and they did make the playoffs. If Favre/Rosenfels don't play well enough then no playoffs for them. I agree he's on the hot seat but it's because next year is the last year of his contract and alot of pieces have been added to the team so ownership rightfully expects a good season.

But Ras, Chilly has tied himself to Jackson so he still takes the blame for that lack of playoff success. I agree that anything short of NFCC is a fired Chilly. Even though he could have better W/L than MM.

I also think since there are expectations on the Pack now for this year that this could also add to the heat on MM if he misses playoffs. Really depends on how they get there.

[Deputy Nutz]

A lot of you are talking about all this young talent, which is great to have, but how come the Packers are only getting older by a tenth of a year? This so called young talent gets replaced each year by new young talent.

I guess I think back to the mid 90s when the Packers were able to secure several veterans that may have been a hair past their prime but were vital contributors when injuries did occur, Don Beebe, Tim Hauck, Mike Prior, Keith Jackson, and Bruce Wilkerson, and Harry Galbreath. Guys that had experience and could give you two or three games of quality when guys were banged up.

Why should Thompson be off the hook because of Injuries? If anything injuries should pin point the glaring needs a team has and the actual strength of it's roster.

[Scott Campbell]

Why should Thompson be off the hook because of Injuries? If anything injuries should pin point the glaring needs a team has and the actual strength of it's roster.

An average amount of injuries? No way he should be off the hook. But last year went well beyond average. Even so, Thompson's still got the monkey on his back from a 6-10 season. I get why it happened. But there's only so many times that you can play the injury card.

[Partial]

Why should Thompson be off the hook because of Injuries? If anything injuries should pin point the glaring needs a team has and the actual strength of it's roster.

An average amount of injuries? No way he should be off the hook. But last year went well beyond average. Even so, Thompson's still got the monkey on his back from a 6-10 season. I get why it happened. But there's only so many times that you can play the injury card.

I will giev you that, but my biggest grievance with him (well documented) is his willingness to count on oft injured players. Jenkins and Harrell are two that come to mind.