ESPN's Power Rankings of Head Coaches

[Brandon494]

And who made Rodgers into the QB he is? Most seem to acknowledge that the change in Rodgers from the player drafted to the player now performing on the field is pretty significant.

Who is the person primarily responsible for the attitude in the locker room, the "next man up" attitude for dealing with injuries, etc.

Who is primarily responsible for the design of the offense? Who called the plays?

Who hired Capers?

By your analysis, no HC deserves credit, because they all have assistant coaches and they all turn over one side of the ball to a coordinator while they (the HC) applies their expertise to just one area. It is a "criticism" that could be applied to every HC in the league.

How are you guys getting that I said MM deserves no credit? I'm saying the guy isn't a top 5 HC IMO. Yes MM has helped ARod improve but I can guarantee he would still be a star in the league today even if he did not have MM as a head coach.

[get louder at lambeau]

Oh were the Steelers before Tomlin? Thanks for flilling me in on that. Why dont you go back and read what I wrote because I never said McCarthy doesnt deserve any credit and I never said Colbert, Roethlisberger, and LeBeau did not help Tomlin as well. Maybe I just like Tomlin better as a HC because HE IS THE BETTER HEAD COACH!

This is what you said-

Wasn't aware MM coached defense. Let's be real MM is a good coach but having a QB like Rodgers and Capers running the defense how well of a job did he really do? Top 5 HC? Don't think so. He just has a top 5 GM, QB, and Defensive Coordinator to make him look better than he actually is? Ask yourself this question, if you had to get rid of one guy would it be ARod, TT, MM, or Capers? I think you already know what my answer is.

What I'm saying is that both coaches' situations are eerily similar, with that top 5 GM, QB, and DC, and that you can just replace names in your post and it works perfectly well for Tomlin too-

Wasn't aware Tomlin coached defense. Let's be real Tomlin is a good coach but having a QB like Roethlisberger and LeBeau running the defense how well of a job did he really do? Top 5 HC? Don't think so. He just has a top 5 GM, QB, and Defensive Coordinator to make him look better than he actually is? Ask yourself this question, if you had to get rid of one guy would it be Roethlisberger, Kevin Colbert, Mike Tomlin, or Lebeau? I think you already know what my answer is.

And then you have the fact that Tomlin took over a team that was one season removed from being Super Bowl Champions under the previous HC. McCarthy took over a team that just went 4-12 and hadn't won much of anything in almost ten years.

And this is just golden. Such rock solid logic!-

Maybe I just like Tomlin better as a HC because HE IS THE BETTER HEAD COACH!

That's almost as good as "the IT factor".

[Brandon494]

Very easy answer, Capers; because there are good, long-experienced coordinators available all the time, and they can be obtained by offering them the right contract. I really like Capers, but two years ago there were a number of proven D coordinators available. A few others could probably have done just as well. Good ones become available because they fail as HCs, the HCs they work for fail, or the GM who provides their players fails. It's not uncommon to have one or more very experienced, very successful coordinators looking for jobs in the off season.

Franchise QBs are in limited supply and aren't as available in the open market as coaches. They aren't on the streets looking for jobs like coordinators are. They are hard to replace. The usual source is the draft, with its high percentage of failures and development period that takes at least about 3 years.

GMs and HCs fall into the same boats. It is less common to find good ones on the street looking for jobs. Young guys primed to move up are always available, but you never know for sure if they will have what it takes, it takes a while for them to gain experience and it takes a number of years for them to transform a team into what they want.

How often are franchise QBs (still playing like one) available in the open market?
How often are proven, successful GMs available in the open market?
How often are proven successful HCs available in the open market?
How often are proven successful coordinators available in the open market?

I think it is pretty obvious which is the easiest to replace, if you have to pick one.

I disagree, I believe when Capers is more important to this team succeeding then MM. With AR at QB this team is going to put up point regardless. This team has been a top 5 defense since Capers arrived and should have produced two defensive players of the year since installing his 3-4 scheme. Also with all the injuries we had on defense and for them to still perform at that high of a level shows you how good of a defensive mind Capers really is. Bottom line is we are lucky to have all four guys in GB .

[Patler]

How are you guys getting that I said MM deserves no credit? I'm saying the guy isn't a top 5 HC IMO. Yes MM has helped ARod improve but I can guarantee he would still be a star in the league today even if he did not have MM as a head coach.

You can guarantee it? Based on what?

We can both play this game. I could make the self-serving statement of guaranteeing that Rodgers would not be a star in the league, but for the tutelage of MM.

Both of our guarantees are meaningless.

[Patler]

Bottom line is we are lucky to have all four guys in GB .

We can sure agree on that!!

[Patler]

I disagree, I believe when Capers is more important to this team succeeding then MM. With AR at QB this team is going to put up point regardless. This team has been a top 5 defense since Capers arrived and should have produced two defensive players of the year since installing his 3-4 scheme. Also with all the injuries we had on defense and for them to still perform at that high of a level shows you how good of a defensive mind Capers really is. Bottom line is we are lucky to have all four guys in GB .

But can't it also be argued that with the likes of Raji, Matthews, Williams, Woodson, Shields and Collins the defense would be solid, regardless? If MM is less important because of Rodgers, isn't Capers less important because of the talent on defense?

Isn't it really opposite sides of the same coin?

[sharpe1027]

So wait, in your mind McCarthy's success is all due to TT, Rodgers, and Capers, but Tomlin's somehow ISN'T due to Kevin Colbert, Roethlisberger, and LeBeau? It's due to his "IT factor" instead? Huh. You know the Steelers were pretty good before Tomlin took over too, right?

That's a bit of an overstatement. He is saying MM is top ten, so clearly he's not saying that.

[Pugger]

I disagree, I believe when Capers is more important to this team succeeding then MM. With AR at QB this team is going to put up point regardless. This team has been a top 5 defense since Capers arrived and should have produced two defensive players of the year since installing his 3-4 scheme. Also with all the injuries we had on defense and for them to still perform at that high of a level shows you how good of a defensive mind Capers really is. Bottom line is we are lucky to have all four guys in GB .

To me MM is a top 5 HC. As others have said, he kept this team with all of its injuries together and won the SB - all on the road no less.

[Bretsky]

Before the playoffs I'd have put MM in the 8-12 range. I think we debated this and I got railed on when I listed some over MM

I'd have to agree that I'd put him in the top 5 right now but I don't blame anybody who argues top ten. They are still giving him kudos.

[Gunakor]

I think MM definitely cracks the top 5 now. His weaknesses are still glaring IMO - short yardage playcalling and clock management, for example. But looking big picture, what he accomplished last season is incredibly rare, maybe unprecedented.

Ryan Grant was lost a mere 8 carries into our campaign last season. With nobody proven or capable behind him, that would have been the death blow for most teams' hopes of even reaching the postseason, much less bringing home the hardware. Though we all had something to say about that, MM's approach effectively minimized that loss. Even with the rest of the supporting cast - Finley included - I doubt Andy Reid or Mike Tomlin could have done as well under the same circumstances.

Then we lost Finley. More improvization was needed, since again there was nobody proven or capable behind Finley to fill the role he had been given. Not quite as big a blow as losing your only proven RB in the first half of the first game of the season, but a huge blow nonetheless. You've now lost your only weapon in the ground game and your biggest weapon in your passing game. Most of what you emphasised schematically during the summer is moved to the back of the playbook because you no longer have the personnel to execute it.

The problem then is twofold. One, you have to improvise a new scheme that will yield results given the healthy personnel left on the roster, and two, you have to get those players to believe in that. McCarthy scores extremely high in both cases. The results will be immortalized in the Packer Hall of Fame - a team photo so saturated with IR'ed players you'd need a telescope to view in it's entirety, with a caption below it that reads "Super Bowl XLV Champions." That alone puts MM in a class above the vast majority of other HC's out there today. Top 5 is extremely fair.

[Brandon494]

Might want to go and check the losses Reid and Tomlin had to deal with this season as well. Shit if not for the Eagles making that huge comeback against the Giant most of you would be calling for MM's head. Now since ARod had a great playoff run it somehow moves him above coaches who have more wins and SB appearances? Sorry I give him credit but so don't see him as top 5 yet.

[Tarlam!]

moves him above coaches who have more wins and SB appearances?

In the power rankings, yes. It's not the life's body of work that is being ranked.

[Scott Campbell]

This is a subjective beauty contest. McCarthy took an injury depleted roster and reeled of 6 straight elimination game wins. It was one of the most improbable and impressive runs I've ever seen.

[RashanGary]

Brandon, I think you underestimate a few things with McCarthy.

1. His playcalling. We won the SB this year with an upper tier offense when for most of the year we literally had no RB. Where was TT on that one? He's consistently willing to think outside the box (throw on 3rd and 1, go for it on 4th and 1 when momentum dictates, onside kicks coming out of halftime, etc) Early in his career he was more conservative, but the last year or two he's been opening up the gates and going all out.

2. His ability to get a lot of different personalities on the same page. A part of being great is having great players. Great players have the biggest egos. Phil Jackson is legendary for his ability to get 2 or 3 or 4 alphas to all get along and pull in the same direction. McCarthy does that in football. He's a natural, strong leader. From a distance, Tomlin seems to be that as well, but Tomlin doesn't call an offense or defense. All he really does is lead and be a part-time contributor to Lebeau's defense.


From where I sit, these are two amazing strengths of McCarthy's. And he just spanked Tomlin's ass in the SB. Tomlin has been to a SB and won another, so fine, put him higher based on just accomplishments, but in 1982 anyone who said Joe Montana was a better QB than Fran Tarkington would have been called in idiot. Maybe they had more knowledge of football and they were right. The way Montana was playing this person believed he was the best QB he had ever seen play. 15 years later, Montana goes down as one of, if not the greatest player of all time. Who was right in 1982? Was Tarkington better because at that time he had accomplished more or was Montana better because even though he was just starting his career, he was just flat out better than everyone else?

Just because something isn't proven doesn't mean it isn't so. McCarthy is just starting his coaching career. Who knows how much he's going to accomplish. Based on accomplishment alone, he could fall anywhere between 3 and 10 depending on where you put emphasis on accomplishment. If you use a broader, more big picture way of looking at strengths and weaknesses, if you're very knowledgable about football, the right expert could argue MM falls anywhere from best in the buisness to worst. Going off evidence and what I see as strengths, I think they have him pegged about right, but when it's all said and done, I think he could be legendary too.

[Tarlam!]

How many SB's has Reid won?