Rate the 2008 draft

[Brandon494]

You can go by stats all you want but every ball thrown to Nelson was right on his hands, even the drops. Just because was matched up against their 3rd and 4th CB all game and Rodgers took advantage of it doesn't mean he should be starting over Driver next season. Now if he comes to camp improved from last year and is the better player then by all means he should start but I'm not sold on him yet. Just like Jones Nelson had his stare of drops and fumbles last season. Finley on the other hand if the balls even touches the tip of his finger he's making the catch and that's why I think Rodgers tried to force it to him early in the season because the guys is our #1 target when he's on the field.

[Brandon494]

Jordy is a great Packer and a legitimate starter on 32 teams. I'm damned certain 16 teams at least would give TT a 2nd and 3rd for him.

I'm damned certain your wrong on that one buddy, might want to take those homer glasses off.

[Tarlam!]

IThanks for your feedback.I stand by my opinion, as I'm sure you stand by yours.

[Brandon494]

Go ahead and name the teams

[get louder at lambeau]

You can go by stats all you want but every ball thrown to Nelson was right on his hands, even the drops. Just because was matched up against their 3rd and 4th CB all game and Rodgers took advantage of it doesn't mean he should be starting over Driver next season. Now if he comes to camp improved from last year and is the better player then by all means he should start but I'm not sold on him yet. Just like Jones Nelson had his stare of drops and fumbles last season. Finley on the other hand if the balls even touches the tip of his finger he's making the catch and that's why I think Rodgers tried to force it to him early in the season because the guys is our #1 target when he's on the field.

Driver had the most drops of anyone last year, Brandon, so if that's your criteria for who should start, it shouldn't be Driver. As receivers, Driver and Jordy both had 1 fumble too, so that doesn't decide anything. Jones had 3 fumbles. Jordy's fumble as a WR was when he got tackled from 3 sides while fighting for a first down and someone put a helmet on the ball. His other two were on kick returns. As I said before, he shouldn't be returning kicks anymore. That's Randall Cobb's job now.

As far as passes being right on Jordy's hands, our QB is Aaron Rodgers- ALL of our wide receivers have the benefit of a great QB who puts it right on their hands, not just Jordy. And they ALL dropped passes that hit them in the hands this year, even Jennings. All passes recorded as drops hit the receiver in the hands.

Driver dropped 7, Jones 6, and then there's Jordy and Jennings. The only place I know to find stats on drops only shows the guys who had the most in the NFC, including Driver tied for 7th and Jones tied for 14th. It doesn't show how many Jordy or Jennings had, because they didn't drop enough balls to make the list- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.a...rank=232&year=

[King Friday]

What I don't understand is how people can glom onto Jones's drops and ignore the big catches he made, yet gloss over Nelson's drops in the SB while championing the big catches he made.

As for Jones, he dropped the ball at such crucial times in the postseason when the Packers had a chance to blow open games and deliver a punishing blow to the opponent, and the passes hit him right in the numbers in stride every time. Then you see him made a ridiculously hard catch and you wonder why the hell he can't catch one almost dropped into his lap.

However, the biggest reason for the viewpoint you question is that Jordy turned around after his drops and MADE a huge catch that made up for it almost every time. The fact that Rodgers did not lose faith in Jordy and often went right back to him tells me something...and that is probably true of many other Packer fans. As someone else mentioned ALL receivers drop passes, and the ability to get past the drop and turn around the next play and make something happen is very important for a receiver. To some extent, that is what I see missing in Jones. I'm not sure he gets over a bad drop quickly...he sort of disappears for awhile.

While I'm on the pro-Jordy bandwagon, I suppose, let me be clear that I'm not a believer that he's a starter on any NFL team. He could be on some teams, but there are a good number of #2 WRs that are better than Jordy to this point. I'll be interested to see how the successful postseason run impacts Nelson's confidence and production going forward.

[King Friday]

Driver dropped 7, Jones 6, and then there's Jordy and Jennings. The only place I know to find stats on drops only shows the guys who had the most in the NFC, including Driver tied for 7th and Jones tied for 14th. It doesn't show how many Jordy or Jennings had, because they didn't drop enough balls to make the list- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.a...rank=232&year=

Yeah, Driver dropped a ton last year...have to give him a pass due to his reliable history and the nagging injuries he had most of the year, but it certainly wasn't a great year for Donald. Hope it isn't a sign of the end closing in just yet.

Jordy was the 2nd most reliable receiver (not best, mind you) on the team last year IMO. I think that is why Rodgers had the confidence to go back to him repeatedly in the postseason, even after a few drops.

[mraynrand]

It's going to be impossible to resolve whether Nelson or Jones are starting caliber until they get an opportunity to start. The Packer offense is built to create mismatches and so requires very good 3 and 4 receivers. Other teams just cannot cover them, if Rodgers has a reasonable amount of time in the pocket, so that has been their fate, to play in position so as to expose those mismatches and compliment a very good receiver in Jennings and attempt to supplant a rock-solid - up till this season - Driver.

We'll have to wait and see what Nelson and Jones look like as starters. I suspect we'll see in a hurry once this season starts because most likely Jordy will be starting for GB over Driver and Jones will be starting for someone else. It will be interesting to revisit the issue after they get a few games under their belts. I'm betting Nelson will have a significant advantage over Jones, because I suspect Jones will get snapped up by a not-so-good offensive squad and have to learn a new scheme...

[bobblehead]

What I don't understand is how people can glom onto Jones's drops and ignore the big catches he made, yet gloss over Nelson's drops in the SB while championing the big catches he made.

How many did Nelson drop? Three? And one, I recall, looked like it could've gone for a TD - just like the Jones drop we all refer to.

That was a point I was trying to make earlier this season when everyone was down on JJ. He made HUGE plays all year long. He made boneheaded plays, yes.....because he was in position to make huge plays. Jordy dropped just as many, but until the superbowl didn't make the game changers JJ did. I am with PB, Jones is the superior talent based on everything I have seen....preconceived notions aside.

[get louder at lambeau]

Your second statement makes no sense. I don't care if Finley creates mismatches or coats his jersey with hallucinogens (in his case, he is being covered by the best coverage option teams have at LB and S, plus the occasional CB). He gets the job done as the primary target. Indeed, in two of his best games, he seemed like the only reliable target.

How does it not make sense? You downplayed Nelson's production for being covered by the nickel or dime corner with this quote-

Nelson did come through at a crucial time, but not in such a way that Finley (or even Jones) couldn't surpass if they were the fourth most feared option on the Packer offense.

The only advantage to being "the fourth most feared option" is who they cover you with- nickel and dime corners. A large part of what makes Finley so productive is how he is often covered by inside linebackers who cover even worse than the guys covering Jordy. You give Finley credit for creating mismatches and downplay Jordy's production, despite the fact that the reason he got so many balls was that he was a mismatch vs. the guy across from him, just like Finley.

You call it being "the primary target" when Finley lines up against guys who can't cover him and catches lots of balls, and being "the fourth most feared option" when Nelson does the same. Nelson WAS Rodgers' primary target in the Super Bowl, due to the mismatch a fast 6'3" receiver provided going against a 5'10' nickel corner. Finley does the same thing as a 6'5" receiver going against slow LBs. Either way, it's a mismatch that our offense is built to take advantage of. Calling Finley the "primary target" makes it sound like he's being covered by the other team's best cover guy, which is almost never the case in reality. That guy is usually on Jennings.

[Brandon494]

Haha try nice but they double Finley most if the time, they have never doubled Jordy.

[swede]

Haha try nice but they double Finley most if the time...

Why would they double Finley? I've been reading on Packerrats Rate the Draft 2008 that he's all hat and no cattle.

[get louder at lambeau]

Haha try nice but they double Finley most if the time, they have never doubled Jordy.

OK, let me make something clear to you, since you don't seem to understand this- I never said Jordy is better than or equal to Finley. I don't believe that to be true. I believe Finley is a more talented player than Jordy. I just think fans tend to overvalue Finley and undervalue Jordy.

Now, please re-read that first statement.

OK, hopefully that sunk in, because any time I try to say that one player is undervalued by fans compared to a star who can do no wrong in fans' eyes, like Bush to Woodson for example, people seem to get confused and think I was arguing that the undervalued player is equal to or better than the star. Or that I hate the star player. Not the case. Just trying to evaluate them equally, and not allow the fan part of my brain to be blinded by hero-worship for the star, like fans usually do.

Here is a highlight video of Finley this last season. Looks like lots of linebackers covering him to me, just like I said. Guys wearing numbers like 55 and even 90 on him. Then the safety playing deep usually comes up to clean up after Finley scorches the LB-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzirey06vOU

Now here's one of Jordy this last season. If what Finley was getting in those highlights counts as double coverage to you, Nelson got the same exact treatment at the :35 mark and 2:30 mark-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGI2hPWyDe8

[mraynrand]

Haha try nice but they double Finley most if the time, they have never doubled Jordy.

This is just ignorant. Finley gets a LB/safety coverage and Nelson gets a Corner/safety coverage all the time in certain standard coverage schemes.

Does Finley get special treatment versus Nelson? Of course he does - He's arguably one of the top few TEs in the league and is a game changer. Nelson is the 3rd/4th receiver on one team. If you're going to make stupid arguments to say that Finley is better than Nelson in terms of raw talent relative to their positions, you're wasting your time and our time. I don't think anyone here will argue with you. If both are healthy, I'd take Finley of course.

That being said, they have different impacts though, based on where they are on the field and who they are matched up against. Nelson is valuable because no one can defense a very good WR who is the 3/4 WR. Finley is valuable because he is a game changer who forces other teams to alter their defensive scheme to cover him.

[sharpe1027]

This is just ignorant. Finley gets a LB/safety coverage and Nelson gets a Corner/safety coverage all the time in certain standard coverage schemes.

Does Finley get special treatment versus Nelson? Of course he does - He's arguably one of the top few TEs in the league and is a game changer. Nelson is the 3rd/4th receiver on one team. If you're going to make stupid arguments to say that Finley is better than Nelson in terms of raw talent relative to their positions, you're wasting your time and our time. I don't think anyone here will argue with you. If both are healthy, I'd take Finley of course.

That being said, they have different impacts though, based on where they are on the field and who they are matched up against. Nelson is valuable because no one can defense a very good WR who is the 3/4 WR. Finley is valuable because he is a game changer who forces other teams to alter their defensive scheme to cover him.

Referring back to the point of the thread. Which would you rate higher
1) a guy that is able to force mismatches as the #1 player at his position or
2) a guy that forces mismatches only if you have two guys better than him at the same position?