Rate the 2008 draft

[mraynrand]

Referring back to the point of the thread. Which would you rate higher
1) a guy that is able to force mismatches as the #1 player at his position or
2) a guy that forces mismatches only if you have two guys better than him at the same position?

Is this the point of the thread? Which would you rather have: $100 or $10? Discuss. Better yet, which would you rather have: $100 in a bond that matures in a year or $10 in your hand right now. Please, don't discuss.

[sharpe1027]

Is this the point of the thread? Which would you rather have: $100 or $10? Discuss. Better yet, which would you rather have: $100 in a bond that matures in a year or $10 in your hand right now. Please, don't discuss.

The point of the thread is to grade the 2008 draft. A commonly accepted way to grade a group of items (drafts and individual pics therein) is to to determine a relative position for the items so that they can be evaluated/graded. Thus, one way to grade the draft is to rate each player relative to each other. This tangent started with an argument that Finley should not be considered highly rated, so much so that his relative position was below Nelson.

My statement seems absurd because it was meant too seem that way.

[Patler]

After 3 years, which tight end has panned out better?

Tight end "A" with 82 receptions, 1051 yards and 7 TDs; or
Tight end "B" with 124 receptions, 1127 yards and 17 TDs.

[mraynrand]

After 3 years, which tight end has panned out better?

Tight end "A" with 82 receptions, 1051 yards and 7 TDs; or
Tight end "B" with 124 receptions, 1127 yards and 17 TDs.

That A bond must be for 5 years

[Bretsky]

After 3 years, which tight end has panned out better?

Tight end "A" with 82 receptions, 1051 yards and 7 TDs; or
Tight end "B" with 124 receptions, 1127 yards and 17 TDs.

HOW OLD ARE THEY BOTH ?
ARE THEY IN SIMIALAR POWERED OFFENSES IN TERMS OF TOTAL PASSING YARDS PER YEAR ?
HOW MANY GAMES HAVE EACH PLAYED ?

Tight end B is most likely a possession TE; crappy Yards per catch at leas than 10yds. He probably gets plenty of opportunities so gut would tell me he's a stronger part of the offense than B .

Tight end A probably stretches the field far better than Tight end A. I think there is great value on TE's like Gates who can stretch the field because that created opportunities for the other WR's and makes them better. For GB my initial bias is Tight end A

[Brandon494]

Bottom line I know Finley has missed time and has yet to play a full season BUT his injury to me seemed more of being unlucky rather then being injury prone. I just feel like some think hes the next Robert Ferguson or something. He got injuired making a tackle, we dont have #4 at QB anymore so hopefully he wont be doing much more of that. You also have to factor in that he left school two years early. If he stays in school he'd be a sure fire 1st round draft pick, possibly even top 15. To me if you draft a sophmore in the 3rd round who would be a top 15 pick a year or two later then that has to be graded an A. Now I understand he hasnt put up the monster numbers yet BUT I still think the pontenial this guy has at the age of 24 highly out weighs his lack of production so far in his yonng career.

[get louder at lambeau]

I agree with all of that, Brandon. The only thing that should be noted is that Finley didn't just have one injury. He had a knee injury in 2009 to his other knee.

[sharpe1027]

After 3 years, which tight end has panned out better?

Tight end "A" with 82 receptions, 1051 yards and 7 TDs; or
Tight end "B" with 124 receptions, 1127 yards and 17 TDs.

Are they both playing in the same offense for those three years? What are the per/game numbers and the opposing competition during those games? Does one of the TEs block measurably better? Did one of the TEs play significantly more early in those three years and the other play significantly more later? Was one of the TEs stuck behind a very good TE and the other thrown in due to lack of competition and/or injury?

[Brandon494]

What he missed 3 games with a knee bruise?

[get louder at lambeau]

Referring back to the point of the thread. Which would you rate higher
1) a guy that is able to force mismatches as the #1 player at his position or
2) a guy that forces mismatches only if you have two guys better than him at the same position?

How are you so sure Jordy needs to be the #3 or lower to create a mismatch? He lit it up like few others have in college as the focal point of his offense, with 122 catches for 1606 yards and 11 TDs in 12 games. That's an average of 10 catches for 134 yards and a TD. He's a 6'3" 217 lb. receiver who has some moves, 4.5 speed and good hands. I think he'll do just fine as a starter.

[Patler]

After 3 years, which tight end has panned out better?

Tight end "A" with 82 receptions, 1051 yards and 7 TDs; or
Tight end "B" with 124 receptions, 1127 yards and 17 TDs.

HOW OLD ARE THEY BOTH ?
ARE THEY IN SIMIALAR POWERED OFFENSES IN TERMS OF TOTAL PASSING YARDS PER YEAR ?
HOW MANY GAMES HAVE EACH PLAYED ?

Tight end B is most likely a possession TE; crappy Yards per catch at leas than 10yds. He probably gets plenty of opportunities so gut would tell me he's a stronger part of the offense than B .

Tight end A probably stretches the field far better than Tight end A. I think there is great value on TE's like Gates who can stretch the field because that created opportunities for the other WR's and makes them better. For GB my initial bias is Tight end A

I wasn't really expecting an answer to my question, I just posed the comparison to point out the risk in overblowing what Finley has accomplished so far and jumping to conclusions about what he will be.

Tight end "A" is Finley.
Tight end "B" is the first three years of Bubba Franks' career.

No question Finley has far,far more potential as a receiver; but for what ever reasons, Finley hasn't been able to distinguish himself other than as potential. I know all the reasons, excuses, whatever. We don't need to rehash them. But, I certainly can't give Finley an "A" for actual contributions yet, not until he starts stringing together seasons of actual performances.

[Brandon494]

Can't really use college stats to prove what he can do as a starter in the pros. The guy did have 9 catches SB which shows he does have talent but the drops also showed he's not ready to be a starting WR yet.

[get louder at lambeau]

Can't really use college stats to prove what he can do as a starter in the pros. The guy did have 9 catches SB which shows he does have talent but the drops also showed he's not ready to be a starting WR yet.

Again you ignore the fact that the guy starting in front of him had more drops than Jordy did last year and similar total production.

Driver in 2011 including postseason-
65 catches, 734 yards, 4 TDs

Nelson in 2011 including postseason-
66 catches, 868 yards, 4 TDs

[sharpe1027]

How are you so sure Jordy needs to be the #3 or lower to create a mismatch? He lit it up like few others have in college as the focal point of his offense, with 122 catches for 1606 yards and 11 TDs in 12 games. That's an average of 10 catches for 134 yards and a TD. He's a 6'3" 217 lb. receiver who has some moves, 4.5 speed and good hands. I think he'll do just fine as a starter.

I am not sure, and I don't disagree with you that he might be fine as a starter, but the argument is that you can't judge Finely based upon potential, only on what he actually did. Same goes for Nelson.

[get louder at lambeau]

I am not sure, and I don't disagree with you that he might be fine as a starter, but the argument is that you can't judge Finely based upon potential, only on what he actually did. Same goes for Nelson.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.